April 2018 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

by Stephane Ducasse

I will create one, because at the end I was the guy that showed the moose meta model to lukas and pushed him when he started to work on Magritte. (magritte description described in themselves and general design are lukas ideas). Stef On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Is this the canonical repo? I'm still depending on the version in > SmalltalkHub. > > Thanks, > Peter > > On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Ok when I will do a pass I will have a look. My goal is to improve for >> Pharo. >> >> Stef >> >> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:50 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> >> wrote: >> > Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote >> >> I will work on magritte. >> > >> > Great, have a look at my fork [1], which contains many enhancements. I >> > didn't port them back to the main library because they are only known to >> > work in Pharo, I don't know of anyone maintaining from the Squeak side, >> > and >> > I didn't want to break it. >> > >> > 1. https://github.com/seandenigris/Magritte3 >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- >> > Cheers, >> > Sean >> > -- >> > Sent from: >> > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html >> > >> >

April 9, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Pharo 6.1 version

by Stephane Ducasse

Thanks peter we should make this clearer. On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:13 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> But why it's not a 6.2 version? It would be more clear since this is >> continuation of version 6 with new changes. How one would revert to original >> 6.1 if this new version isn't working for him? > > > In the same way as any previous image version... e.g. > > Pharo 6 is actually Pharo 60508 and lower, > Pharo 6.1 is Pharo 60509-60539, > and Pharo 6.2 is Pharo 60540+ > (give or take couple of versions, don't remember the precise boundaries) > > and you can download any specific image version you want > https://files.pharo.org/image/60/ > > (it is a bit confusing, but Pharo 6 is not yet using git and the existing > infrastructure is not keen on minor releases) > > Peter

April 9, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

by Stephane Ducasse

Yes me too and this is on our todo. Because I hate it. Now as usual the more we get help the faster we are. For example Pablo rewrote the FT logic to use FFI instead of the unstable plugin. And when he is doing this he is not doing something else. Same of streams and many other. Stef On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 2:18 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Even if he is a troll, he pointed out many things that aren't given > priority because we're building "next great stuff" and with the limited > resource you either stop to world to fix what's already made or you move > forward. > > And IMO it is true that the next great stuff is being built, a better > paradigm, moldability, and whatnot, but that means that, for a while, > tools, and the image itself won't be "rock solid", and since most things > are not backportable or maintained (there are no resources to have LTS > versions), it is hard to define what's the minimum rock-solid core on > which to build upon. > > E.g. The infinite walkback error pointed in this screenshot > https://i.imgur.com/7jiKIhd.png still chases me from time to time, and I > remember having reported it a long time ago, and it was considered fixed. > > So I wouldn't feed the troll, but I woudln't kill the messenger either. > > Regards, > > > On 07/04/2018 14:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: >> yeah the guy (martin whatever) is a troll, if I remember correctly its >> the same dude we had on the reddit forum for Smalltalk that has been >> attacking Pharo with pure lies. He is a typical troll that blows off >> steam by annoying other people. I am with Stef with this one, the only >> way to win against a troll is silence. I had a very recent experience >> where the person in charge underestimated a troll, he overflown the >> mailing list with negative, many people took the bait and tried to have >> a civilized discussions with him, he drag it one for month until people >> started abandoning the community and the community essentially died. >> >> I adviced them not to feed the troll but as in many other cases, people >> dont even listen. >> >> Pharo is far from perfect, but this is not a logical discussion , its >> pure troll tactic. Do not underestimate the power of a troll, it is more >> powerful than you can imagine and feed on politeness and rationality. >> >> Don't feed the troll. >> >> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:13 PM phil(a)highoctane.be >> <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> <phil(a)highoctane.be >> <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> wrote: >> >> interruptible.. yes! >> >> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 19:10 Thierry Goubier >> <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> Le 07/04/2018 Ã 17:48, Aliaksei Syrel a Ã©crit : >> > Hi >> > >> > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo: >> > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc >> > >> > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a >> pity when >> > tiny âminorâ issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste. >> >> Some of them are, sadly, quite unacceptable, IMHO. >> >> I would really dream of a stable, correctly interruptible (i.e. >> a Cmd-. >> that really works), limited Pharo core. That would help >> development so >> significantly and allow more experiments. >> >> I solve that by making stuff that distance itself as much as >> possible >> from a lot of the Pharo stuff that evolves far too much, far too >> fast to >> be relied upon (widgets, graphics, editors), and I'm looking >> forward to >> building a limited(*) image with just and only the things I rely on. >> >> One of the thing I need is a CI that triggers both on my code >> releases >> and any Pharo update (including the stable ones) since even stable >> releases may change core APIs. >> >> > Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language. >> >> That I can agree with :) >> >> > Some people even >> > give dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians >> heal cats... >> > >> > All the best >> > Alex >> >> Regards, >> >> Thierry >> >> (*) I did try with the minimal image, and the tools are clearly >> limiting. >> >> > On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse >> <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com> >> > <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com >> <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com>>> wrote: >> > >> > I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a >> pseudo. This is >> > too easy and too microscopic to have any value. >> > Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names. >> > >> > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano >> > <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> >> <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>> wrote: >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > yesterday someone posted an article on HN about the >> Pharo MOOC >> > and there has >> > > been some negative posts there. >> > > I would like to call people who can have the time to >> answer there >> > and help >> > > to explain better and also contribute to contest that FUD >> > someones (we know >> > > who they areâ¦ sames as always) are spreading. >> > > >> > > here the link : >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16754872 >> > > >> > > (this is not loosing time, people searching for Pharo >> will likely >> > see this >> > > kind of messagesâ¦ at least we need to offer our point >> of view) >> > > >> > > cheers! >> > > Esteban >> > >> > -- >> > Cheers, >> > Alex >> >> > > -- > Esteban A. Maringolo >

April 9, 2018

Esteban's ChangeLog week of 2 April 2018

by estebanlm＠gmail.com

Hello! This is my weekly ChangeLog, from 2 April 2018 to 8 April 2018. You can see it in a better format by going here: http://log.smallworks.eu/web/search?from=2/4/2018&to=8/4/2018 ChangeLog ========= 5 April 2018: ------------- * I closed [issue 593](https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/593), revert a change is not refreshing changes list. * closed [issue 599](https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/599), add fetch to remote entry in repository view. * fixed [case: 21676](https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21676) (this is needed when using tabs). ... and made a backport for Pharo 6.1 [case: 21679](https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21679) . * VM and CI : I made a pass to disable old projects still running in the Pharo Jenkins [http://ci.pharo.org](http://ci.pharo.org) . I don't know why they were still running, but that's wrong and they were consuming resources we need :) * I finished [issue 596](https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/596) : Convert metacello plugin. * I created a github project to follow the work I'm doing with the new Iceberg UI (callled "Tip" :P). You can see it here: [https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/projects/2](https://github.com/pharo-v… I'm polishing (with the help of Guille and Pablo) the last details before "going public" in a test release. * I will resume posting actions here :) cheers! Esteban

April 9, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Even if he is a troll, he pointed out many things that aren't given priority because we're building "next great stuff" and with the limited resource you either stop to world to fix what's already made or you move forward. And IMO it is true that the next great stuff is being built, a better paradigm, moldability, and whatnot, but that means that, for a while, tools, and the image itself won't be "rock solid", and since most things are not backportable or maintained (there are no resources to have LTS versions), it is hard to define what's the minimum rock-solid core on which to build upon. E.g. The infinite walkback error pointed in this screenshot https://i.imgur.com/7jiKIhd.png still chases me from time to time, and I remember having reported it a long time ago, and it was considered fixed. So I wouldn't feed the troll, but I woudln't kill the messenger either. Regards, On 07/04/2018 14:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > yeah the guy (martin whatever) is a troll, if I remember correctly its > the same dude we had on the reddit forum for Smalltalk that has been > attacking Pharo with pure lies. He is a typical troll that blows off > steam by annoying other people. I am with Stef with this one, the only > way to win against a troll is silence. I had a very recent experience > where the person in charge underestimated a troll, he overflown the > mailing list with negative, many people took the bait and tried to have > a civilized discussions with him, he drag it one for month until people > started abandoning the community and the community essentially died.Â > > I adviced them not to feed the troll but as in many other cases, people > dont even listen.Â > > Pharo is far from perfect, but this is not a logical discussion , its > pure troll tactic. Do not underestimate the power of a troll, it is more > powerful than you can imagine and feed on politeness and rationality.Â > > Don't feed the troll.Â > > On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:13 PM phil(a)highoctane.be > <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> <phil(a)highoctane.be > <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> wrote: > > interruptible.. yes! > > On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 19:10 Thierry Goubier > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > Le 07/04/2018 Ã 17:48, Aliaksei Syrel a Ã©critÂ : > > Hi > > > > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo: > > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc > > > > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a > pity when > > tiny âminorâ issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste. > > Some of them are, sadly, quite unacceptable, IMHO. > > I would really dream of a stable, correctly interruptible (i.e. > a Cmd-. > that really works), limited Pharo core. That would help > development so > significantly and allow more experiments. > > I solve that by making stuff that distance itself as much as > possible > from a lot of the Pharo stuff that evolves far too much, far too > fast to > be relied upon (widgets, graphics, editors), and I'm looking > forward to > building a limited(*) image with just and only the things I rely on. > > One of the thing I need is a CI that triggers both on my code > releases > and any Pharo update (including the stable ones) since even stable > releases may change core APIs. > > > Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language. > > That I can agree with :) > > > Some people even > > give dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians > heal cats... > > > > All the best > > Alex > > Regards, > > Thierry > > (*) I did try with the minimal image, and the tools are clearly > limiting. > > > On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse > <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com> > > <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com > <mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > >Â Â Â I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a > pseudo. This is > >Â Â Â too easy and too microscopic to have any value. > >Â Â Â Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names. > > > >Â Â Â On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano > >Â Â Â <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> > <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>> wrote: > >Â Â Â > Hi, > >Â Â Â > > >Â Â Â > yesterday someone posted an article on HN about the > Pharo MOOC > >Â Â Â and there has > >Â Â Â > been some negative posts there. > >Â Â Â > I would like to call people who can have the time to > answer there > >Â Â Â and help > >Â Â Â > to explain better and also contribute to contest that FUD > >Â Â Â someones (we know > >Â Â Â > who they areâ¦ sames as always) are spreading. > >Â Â Â > > >Â Â Â > here the link : > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16754872 > >Â Â Â > > >Â Â Â > (this is not loosing time, people searching for Pharo > will likely > >Â Â Â see this > >Â Â Â > kind of messagesâ¦ at least we need to offer our point > of view) > >Â Â Â > > >Â Â Â > cheers! > >Â Â Â > Esteban > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Alex > > -- Esteban A. Maringolo

April 9, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Pharo 6.1 version

by Tudor Girba

Great job, Esteban! Doru > On Apr 5, 2018, at 3:00 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20944/Integrate-Epicea-8-2-8-in-Ph6-1 > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"

April 8, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] pharo [vm-dev]

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Armel, and issues at that level of the system are best reported and discussed on vm-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org. You'll get prompt response there. Bringing up the LIBPATH issue on Pharo-dev et al is simply "kicking the can up the road" as they say. _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone) > On Apr 8, 2018, at 8:11 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hello Armel > > The pharo board is not the list to ask questions and get some help. > You can send the mail to > > Pharo Dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > or Pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > > You can also have direct discussion over discord > > http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn > > Now if you want to have help > describe clearly > - Your OS > - what you did? > which version of Pharo, which version of the image Pharo 6.1? > - did you use the PharoLauncher? > > Stef > >> On 8 Apr 2018, at 16:57, feav feav <feavfeav(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Error. Could not determine platform's libc path for VM. >> Try forcing $PLATFORMLIBDIR in /home/pi/pharo/pharo64/pharo/bin/pharo, based on LIBC_SO. >> >> Cordialement, Armel EMBOLO >> IngÃ©nieur de travaux en Informatique de Gestion / Analyste programmeur >> ElÃ¨ve IngÃ©nieur de Conception en GÃ©nie Logiciel >> UniversitÃ© de Maroua, Ecole Nationale SupÃ©rieure Polytechnique de Maroua (ex ISS) >> Facebook : Armel Embolo >> Linkedin : armel embolo >> Tel : (+237) 650231339/698594740 > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France >

April 8, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

by Sean P. DeNigris

Eliot Miranda-2 wrote > If it is possible and not too onerous then the courtesy would be > appreciated. I would be happy to. The issue is that, since most of my private projects are in Pharo, I won't know/see bugs. I think the only way for this to happen is if someone starts actively using it in Squeak and reporting bugs and we can work together to iron out any issues. ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

April 8, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Sean, > On Apr 8, 2018, at 6:04 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote >> Is this the canonical repo? I'm still depending on the version in >> SmalltalkHub. > > I would say it's a judgement call because the original author is no longer > active in the community. I originally was pushing all my fixes to the StHub > repo, but I started to break the Squeak CI builds, so I forked and made many > significant enhancements since. I always depend on my fork and use it in > most of my projects, both personal and production. I would say that there is > no downside as long as one is using it in Pharo exclusively. I would guess > it wouldn't be super complicated to fix for Squeak and sync everything, but > so far no one has voiced a need. If it is possible and not too onerous then the courtesy would be appreciated. > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html >

April 8, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] pharo [vm-dev]

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hello Armel The pharo board is not the list to ask questions and get some help. You can send the mail to Pharo Dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> or Pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org You can also have direct discussion over discord http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn <http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn> Now if you want to have help describe clearly - Your OS - what you did? which version of Pharo, which version of the image Pharo 6.1? - did you use the PharoLauncher? Stef > On 8 Apr 2018, at 16:57, feav feav <feavfeav(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Error. Could not determine platform's libc path for VM. > Try forcing $PLATFORMLIBDIR in /home/pi/pharo/pharo64/pharo/bin/pharo, based on LIBC_SO. > > Cordialement, Armel EMBOLO > <https://accounts.google.com/SignOutOptions?hl=fr&continue=https://mail.goog…> > IngÃ©nieur de travaux en Informatique de Gestion / Analyste programmeur > ElÃ¨ve IngÃ©nieur de Conception en GÃ©nie Logiciel > UniversitÃ© de Maroua, Ecole Nationale SupÃ©rieure Polytechnique de Maroua (ex ISS) > Facebook : Armel Embolo <https://www.facebook.com/armel.embolo> > Linkedin : armel embolo <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=AAMAABYswuMBn33mi4o_x8R49OxfxiIQVA…> > Tel : (+237) 650231339/698594740 -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

April 8, 2018