January 2018 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Hello, Im and a litle confused. Can you help me get started please?

by Stephane Ducasse

You are welcome :) Take the time and learn. Pharoers are nice. And get better and better and Pharo will change your life and your way to program in any OOP language. The "learning OOP" book that I wrote can teach you already some nice parts of OOP http://books.pharo.org Stef On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Photon <nico-braun(a)live.de> wrote: > Wow im mindblown. The famous Stephane Ducasse answered me himself :) > I watched a couple of talk you gave on Pharo. I followed your dice example > wich helped me alot to understand. By now im much more into it then a few > days ago when i wrote my request. Still I`m new to programming so I cant do > anything usefull yet. > > For my example with the city i > I meant that each class contained a dynamic list of other classes like city > had a member districts wich was a list of district classes and so on. I`m > not even sure if that is a good thing to do or if a real developer would > realize the city mode in a different way. > > Anyways I feel like i know how to proceed now, and have a bit better > understanding of the syntax and this whole object-message concept. Thank you > for your reply mr Ducasse ;) > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html >

Jan. 10, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] About values....

by Dimitris Chloupis

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 11:28 PM Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > https://youtu.be/keCwRdbwNQY > > I would love to have $ to market Pharo but I like this talk > > Stef > > Let's be sincere here, there would have been no Apple without Steve. Ironically even Steve was not aware of his massive importance. When he was asked about Windows share on the OS market and what hope MacOS has battling a Goliath that Microsoft is , Steve said that there could be no competition and no hope other than increasing the shared from 3% at the time to 5% the next 5 years. MacOS increased its share to 10% instead and when everyone predicted that macs are no longer the focus of the company, Apple smelled the roses and saw that maybe OS market is not as hopeless as they initially thought. As a result we had the 5k iMac , a computer that costed at its release as much it costed to get the monitor alone and then the iMac pro. Truth is that known really knows the market, not even Steve, none can really predict it and none can really manipulate it. Its made for humans by humans and so its influenced by the chaos that is called human emotion. However I agree with Steve. If you have to choose between 1 billion dollars or the ability to greatly inspire people, you will be foolish to pick the first. Personally I think a big obstacle for Pharo is not money but this part. If one opens Pharo without knowing anything about it , his first reaction will be "so what ?". Why ? Because there is no obvious thing to inspire. Pharo ability to inspire requires a deep introduction to the language and considerably experience till you get at least the basics. This is our greatest weakness. We have prioritized coder productivity and we have sacrificed smooth learning curve. Meaning there is a lot of friction to be introduced to Pharo but once you do and learn the basics its easy to fall in love with the whole ideology that Pharo is. Frankly Pharo has improved this already, Squeak was a mess and Pharo did a lot of clean up. Unfortunately smooth learning curve is a secondary priority and this will be growing issue the more complex Pharo becomes and let's face it Pharo is a very complex environment already. So sorry Stef , you know I don't have an issue admiring when you are correct but in this one you are very wrong. Python had no money at all, actually I am willing to bet it had less than Pharo, but Python offered this super smooth learning curve and it now dominates the programming field. Ironically I think Pharo would have been a far better choice in this field. Why ? - The language is much easier and simpler - We got a much better VM with far higher performance - We have a proper IDE that is fully open source, free and only one, instead of a thousand variants of the same thing etc. Also as the video implied it does not matter how much money you throw at marketing. Many companies throw a ton of money and they get close to nothing in return. It's extremely hard to buy inspiration, you either have it , or you don't. Ironically I am writting this lines on my iMac using Windows. I am a Windows hater but I got to admit, Microsoft seems to finally get the message, not only the open sourced .NET which make a huge part of Windows they also made Windows 10 far more stable , slick and well designed. Windows 10 may become the only version of Windows I manage to like. I am sure it's not because they throw more money to it. More like they throw more brains to it.

Jan. 10, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Hello, Im and a litle confused. Can you help me get started please?

by Photon

Wow im mindblown. The famous Stephane Ducasse answered me himself :) I watched a couple of talk you gave on Pharo. I followed your dice example wich helped me alot to understand. By now im much more into it then a few days ago when i wrote my request. Still I`m new to programming so I cant do anything usefull yet. For my example with the city i I meant that each class contained a dynamic list of other classes like city had a member districts wich was a list of district classes and so on. I`m not even sure if that is a good thing to do or if a real developer would realize the city mode in a different way. Anyways I feel like i know how to proceed now, and have a bit better understanding of the syntax and this whole object-message concept. Thank you for your reply mr Ducasse ;) -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Jan. 10, 2018

[Pharo 7.0-dev] Build #416: 20936-64bit-primitiveFailure-for-1-0-largeIdentityHash

by ci-pharo-ci-jenkins2＠inria.fr

There is a new Pharo build available! The status of the build #416 was: SUCCESS. The Pull Request #658 was integrated: "20936-64bit-primitiveFailure-for-1-0-largeIdentityHash" Pull request url: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/658 Issue Url: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20936 Build Url: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%2…

Jan. 10, 2018

Google Summer of Code 2018 with Pharo Consortium

by Jigyasa Grover

Hello Pharo-ers ! On behalf of the community, I would like to thank each one of you for their significant contribution in the previously concluded *Google Summer of Code 2017* with *Pharo Consortium*. We aspire to take-off on a long flight after this successful stint by applying to participate in the upcoming *Google Summer of Code 2018*. As many of you might know, Google Summer of Code is a global program focused on bringing more student developers into open source software development. Students work with an open source organization on a 3 month programming project during their break from school. Read more about the program here: https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/ The deadline for organisations to apply is January 23, 2018 which is fast approaching. As an open source evangelist and a Pharo developer, I would like to invite all the experienced members to be a part of the "GSoC 2018 with Pharo Consortium" Team and mentor students. Propose fresh ideas for projects which shall help improve Pharo or volunteer to mentor any of the existing one (Listed here: http://gsoc.pharo.org/) To add your own project idea to the list, visit http://gsoc.pharo.org/#adding-a-proposal Looking forward to an appreciable representation from the Pharo community. Best regards Jigyasa Grover Pharo Consortium Org Admin, Google Summer of Code 2017 [hidden email] -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Jan. 10, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Hello, Im and a litle confused. Can you help me get started please?

by Dimitris Chloupis

You got a secret weapon A nuclear weapon The ability to ask questions. Anything you donât understand ask a question Anything you think you understand ask a question Anything you sure you understand ask a question Then keep asking until you fill the mailing lists with question People hate asking questions but the love answering them ;) On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 at 10:55, Photon <nico-braun(a)live.de> wrote: > Hello, Folks. As is wrote in the title, I`m somewhat confused. I`m new to > programming but I think I understood what OOP is, yessterday before I > discovered Pharo, was I was able to build a simple city model in Visual > Studio (C#), with a city class which was build out of other classes wich > were build out of other classes. > City<-District<-Street<-House<-Room. So I get the idea that we want to > discribe real world systems as network of objects to be able to solve > problems within givin system. > > However I have a super hard time to grasp Pharo for some reason. What I > understood so far is that everything is an object even the classes it self, > wich is super cool by the way. I understand that as I use Pharo I have to > use the libaries aswell since there is no clear cut between language and > package. > I know the browser to a slight degree and I read allready a bit code from > some objects and methods. > But then when i try to call some methods from the classes there I fail 90% > of the time. > > I did not find much learning material online. Only a couple talks on Pharo > and one or two text based tutorials wich were unfortunatly pretty old, > version 1.5 or something like this. > So I really want to dig into this wonderfull subject as the concept seems > fascinating to me. I believe it can be a powerfull tool especially with the > abillity to change things runtime. > > I`d be glad to get a little advice on how to start. > Cheers > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html > >

Jan. 10, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Hello, Im and a litle confused. Can you help me get started please?

by Stephane Ducasse

You can access all the material of the Pharo Mooc at http://mooc.pharo.org If you can something in C# you should be able to do it in Pharo simply too. I do not understand your City<-District notation but if it means that a city has many districts here is the way we express it in Pharo Object subclass: #City instanceVariableNames: 'districts' City >> initialize super initialize. districts := OrderedCollection new. City >> addDistrict: aDistrict districts add: aDistrict Object subclass: #District instanceVariableNames: '...' You may want to read my latest book on Understanding OOP in Pharo available at http://books.pharo.org Good luck Stef On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Photon <nico-braun(a)live.de> wrote: > Hello, Folks. As is wrote in the title, I`m somewhat confused. I`m new to > programming but I think I understood what OOP is, yessterday before I > discovered Pharo, was I was able to build a simple city model in Visual > Studio (C#), with a city class which was build out of other classes wich > were build out of other classes. > City<-District<-Street<-House<-Room. So I get the idea that we want to > discribe real world systems as network of objects to be able to solve > problems within givin system. > > However I have a super hard time to grasp Pharo for some reason. What I > understood so far is that everything is an object even the classes it self, > wich is super cool by the way. I understand that as I use Pharo I have to > use the libaries aswell since there is no clear cut between language and > package. > I know the browser to a slight degree and I read allready a bit code from > some objects and methods. > But then when i try to call some methods from the classes there I fail 90% > of the time. > > I did not find much learning material online. Only a couple talks on Pharo > and one or two text based tutorials wich were unfortunatly pretty old, > version 1.5 or something like this. > So I really want to dig into this wonderfull subject as the concept seems > fascinating to me. I believe it can be a powerfull tool especially with the > abillity to change things runtime. > > I`d be glad to get a little advice on how to start. > Cheers > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html >

Jan. 9, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pavel's ChangeLog week of 2017-01-01

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi esteban I did not get your point on Calypso. To me we should remove nautilus and use Calypso since denis is around. Stef On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 11:27 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 8 Jan 2018, at 23:09, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2018-01-08 22:42 GMT+01:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: >> >> Hi Pavel >> >> I was thinking that it would be nice to have a simple DB build in >> Pharo (I thought that CDB could do the job) to manage source. >> Because I like the idea that when the system crashes I only lose at >> max the method I'm editing. > > > cdb cannot because it means âconstant databaseâ : once created, cannot be > modified and we will need to install sources there. > tyrantdb was just a PoCâ¦ it was cool, but just thatâ¦ lot of work to make it > a real replacement (and also, there is the FFI dependence problem). > >> Esteban did once a try to connect a tokyo tyrant db now I would prefer >> to avoid to have FFI in the middle. >> To me we should **********stabilise*********** pharo for real. > > > There is a lot of things we want to change in the system. Just integration > of Calypso and removal of the old FileStream users could cause a lot of > issues. So we should really think what to do with Pharo 7 release. Of course > I would like to see a lot of the cool new features in Pharo 7 but we will > probably need to decide between some of them and stability. Compressed > in-memory sources are of course not really important. > > > yes. I still didnât do the âfreezeâ call because there are tons of things > that still need a lot of work. > and we still need to introduce SISTA (preview). > > but I would not introduce anything else right now, and that includes > Calypso, image-based-sources (or DB sources) and any of the cool stuff we > have in the pipelineâ¦ just because if we introduce it we will release super > later. > > Esteban > > > > -- Pavel > > > >> >> Stef >> >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > 2018-01-08 16:27 GMT+01:00 Martin Dias <tinchodias(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Pavel Krivanek >> >> <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> In memory sources file >> >>> - I slightly improved the PR for integration of the sources file >> >>> inside >> >>> the object memory. Now it will be possible to extract them back to the >> >>> disk >> >>> from the menu so everything can work as before. I'm not sure if it >> >>> will be >> >>> integrated into Pharo 7 or we will wait for Pharo 8 but it seems to be >> >>> prepared. >> >>> >> >>> File API and caching >> >>> - because the in-memory sources file do not use deprecated >> >>> MultiByteFileStream, I played with the new file API and discovered >> >>> that >> >>> ZnCharacterReadStream on File is about 10 times slower than the old >> >>> MultiByteFileStream. That's because ZnCharacterReadStream does not use >> >>> any >> >>> cache. For better speed the ZnBufferedReadStream needs to be used like >> >>> this: >> >>> >> >>> readStream := File openForReadFileNamed: 'file.txt'. >> >>> zn := ZnCharacterReadStream on: readStream encoding: #UTF8. >> >>> buffered := ZnBufferedReadStream on: zn. >> >>> [ buffered atEnd ] whileFalse: [ buffered next: 20000 ]. >> >>> >> >>> However the ZnBufferedReadStream is by design only a linear stream and >> >>> the position cannot be changed and thus it cannot be used for >> >>> *.sources >> >>> files etc. We will need to prepare a positionable alternative. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Ring 2 integration >> >>> - I was working on replacing of the old Ring with the new >> >>> reimplementation. The old Ring is used on many sensitive places in the >> >>> system. Mainly in tools however it is used by Monticello and Epicea >> >>> too so >> >>> to try to remove it is like to cut a branch below yourself on an >> >>> undermined >> >>> tree. The approach of the old and new Ring is in many senses very >> >>> different >> >>> and the full compatibility will not be supported. I partly provide >> >>> compatibility API, partly adopt the code directly. >> >> >> >> >> >> Great news. I didn't look at Ring 2 code recently but I say your esug >> >> talk >> >> and I imagine it will fit well for the change model and UI tool. >> >> >> >> What may need attention is serialization to text file. Right now, the >> >> Ring >> >> 1 object returned by asRingDefinition (+ some tweaks) is serialized and >> >> materialized via STON into the .ombu files. With Ring 2 serialized with >> >> STON, the file format will be different and in consequence the new >> >> epicea >> >> won't be able to open a .ombu file generated in Ring 1. Not sure if >> >> Pharo >> >> community find this acceptable. IMO it is. >> >> - If not-acceptable, there could be some workaround. >> >> - If acceptable, that's the easiest path, and also it could be a good >> >> opportunity to improve the file format: It could be more compact and >> >> even >> >> have a better extension such as .epicea or something that comunicates >> >> that >> >> tthose files have code changes or sessions. >> > >> > >> > I think that the change of the format is not a a practical issue because >> > probably no-one will need to read the old Ombu files from a different >> > Pharo >> > version. >> > But a change of the format will be handy because every Ring2 model is a >> > standalone environment and Ombu thus saves all information that it >> > includes. >> > So a simple method change creates a record with almost 400 lines. It >> > must be >> > of course much slower too. >> > >> > -- Pavel >> > >> >> >> >> cheers, >> >> MartÃn >> >> >> >>> >> >>> - The real system and the model is mixed many times in the users of >> >>> the >> >>> old Ring. For example a model for a method is created but then when >> >>> the >> >>> package of the method is asked, it is already a real package, not its >> >>> model. >> >>> Such places need to be cleaned. >> >>> - I already have an image that has no old Ring code at all but because >> >>> of >> >>> some memory leaks caused by the mixtures of the models and real system >> >>> I was >> >>> not able to bootstrap it successfully. More work is needed. >> >>> - I discovered that the image has a serious memory leak caused by >> >>> Iceberg/GT and Announcers but I still need to find more information >> >>> about >> >>> it. >> >>> >> >>> Smalltalk archeology >> >>> - during the free days on the beginning of the year I looked at >> >>> Smalltalk-78. I extracted the data from Lively Kernel so the original >> >>> image >> >>> can read from external files, not only the recent updated ones. >> >>> - Then I looked at SqueakJS again and tried to reproduce Craig's >> >>> experiments with Pharo on it. Generally it is about 100 times slower >> >>> than >> >>> native Pharo which makes it hard to use for real-life tasks. However >> >>> it >> >>> would be pity to do not provide at least basic attention to it because >> >>> in >> >>> some cases it may be really useful. >> >>> >> >>> Cheers, >> >>> -- Pavel >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > >

Jan. 9, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] About values....

by Stephane Ducasse

Thanks for your cool signature :) On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 9:20 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Yes of course :) > I like the think differently :) > > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > wrote: > >> >> >> On 8 Jan 2018, at 22:28, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> https://youtu.be/keCwRdbwNQY >> >> I would love to have $ to market Pharo but I like this talk >> >> Stef >> >> >> Bah, we have this: >> >> >> >> World Menu > Help > Pharo Zen >> >> ProfStef pharoZenValuesContents. >> >> Sven >> >> -- >> Sven Van Caekenberghe >> Proudly supporting Pharo >> http://pharo.org >> http://association.pharo.org >> http://consortium.pharo.org >> >> >> >> >> >

Jan. 9, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] About values....

by Stephane Ducasse

Yes of course :) I like the think differently :) On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > On 8 Jan 2018, at 22:28, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > https://youtu.be/keCwRdbwNQY > > I would love to have $ to market Pharo but I like this talk > > Stef > > > Bah, we have this: > > > > World Menu > Help > Pharo Zen > > ProfStef pharoZenValuesContents. > > Sven > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > Proudly supporting Pharo > http://pharo.org > http://association.pharo.org > http://consortium.pharo.org > > > > >

Jan. 9, 2018