August 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Add JSONSchemas to NeoJSON

by Tudor Girba

+1 Doru > On Aug 13, 2017, at 8:53 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi henry > > Here is the email of sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > > He is probably on vacation else he would have replied. > This is great if you can extend neoJSON it is a nice and important > piece of software. > > Stef > > On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:04 PM, henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club> wrote: >> Is Sven still working on NeoJSON? I want to help expand it to use >> JSONSchemas. >> >> https://spacetelescope.github.io/understanding-json-schema/ >> >> I was looking at ASN1Module in Cryptography... >> >> - HH > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com âThe smaller and more pervasive the hardware becomes, the more physical the software gets."

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Add JSONSchemas to NeoJSON

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi henry Here is the email of sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> He is probably on vacation else he would have replied. This is great if you can extend neoJSON it is a nice and important piece of software. Stef On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:04 PM, henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club> wrote: > Is Sven still working on NeoJSON? I want to help expand it to use > JSONSchemas. > > https://spacetelescope.github.io/understanding-json-schema/ > > I was looking at ASN1Module in Cryptography... > > - HH

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoJS crashes at first try

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi frank I think that you are slowly but steadily destroying your aura in this mailing-list, so be careful. I say that to help you. Filter are easy to set. We are all concerned that some of the solutions are not at the level where they should be. I'm sure that Noury like us all would love to have an engineer fully paid and working fully on PharoJS. Now you should consider that people in this community are - building nice libraries (just look at the Pharo success stories - we did not invent them) - sharing their code and valuing it - are concerned by documentation, speed, and robustness. You see take Zinc, NeoJSON, NeoCSV.... they are all HIGH quality, with nearly instant support from sven, with EXCELLENT documentation, FAST and continuously maintained. And for FREE. So of course not all the solutions in Pharo are like that. But we are trying. Now I do not know if you are the frank from lesser software I met in the past but if you do you may ask yourself what would be state of Pharo if you would have participated and shared. So far I never saw anything good or bad coming from this frank. And I was always asking myself if we would all work on closed code then a great system like Pharo would not exist. But we do share and we will continue to improve Pharo with or without you (remember U2 :)). Now if you want to join you are welcome. I can understand your frustration now the difference between you and me is that I decided not to be frustrated anymore and help building a better system. Stef Stef On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Frank-B <frank.berger.software(a)web.de> wrote: > Paul, > > >> What would you be willing to pay for a professionally commented, >> functioning, and documented PharoJS? > > Pardon, but don't you notice yourself how absurd this question is? > > If not - and I am afraid you don't, I tell you why: > - there is NOWHERE any proper listing of what this mysterious piece of > software does (the slides don't tell anything) > - before giving a quote, I would have to anylyse the architectural approach > - and compare it with alternatives - no info available (read the docs on > Orca and you know hwat I mean) > - and see who delivers under which conditions > - and how well things are documented. > > Be assured, that I am well prepared to pay accordingly for a proper product > that I can use, provided that I make the decition to delegate such essential > work to some outsider. > > This technical subject is a CORE feature of almost all of my future > products, plans, ideas etc and it is therefore vital to choose the best and > most fitting system. If there is no alternative, I would - in case of need - > develop it rather myself than depend on an (assumed for the moment) instable > and amateurish library. > > Frank > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-tp4960686p4960738.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Add JSONSchemas to NeoJSON

by henry

Hello Esteban, Do you have Sven's email? I would like to discuss with him. I am currently considering combining ASN1 Modules, Fuel substitution and NeoJSON encoding. It is some work. Regards, - HH > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Add JSONSchemas to NeoJSON > Local Time: August 12, 2017 6:13 PM > UTC Time: August 12, 2017 10:13 PM > From: emaringolo(a)gmail.com > To: henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club>, Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Sven is still the developer and maintaner of NeoJSON. > > It would be nice to have JSON Schemas in NeoJSON. You could abort the > read of a stream if the schema is invalid, without > having to build the whole object tree or to parse the whole stream. > > Regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > 2017-08-12 17:04 GMT-03:00 henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club>: >> Is Sven still working on NeoJSON? I want to help expand it to use >> JSONSchemas. >> >> https://spacetelescope.github.io/understanding-json-schema/ >> >> I was looking at ASN1Module in Cryptography... >> >> - HH

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoJS fails at first attempt

by Frank-B

Merci! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-tp4960519p… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoJS crashes at first try

by Frank-B

Stephane, all available information is in these two postings further up here: 13 Aug, 2017; 6:18pm versus the end 13 Aug, 2017; 6:38pm Frank -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-tp4960686p4960742.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoJS fails at first attempt

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi frank You can contact noury at bouraqadi(a)gmail.com Serge does not work on PharoJS. Noury and Dave are. Stef On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Frank-B <frank.berger.software(a)web.de> wrote: > @Serge and @those who developed PharoJS > > My first attempt to play with PharoJS failed. > See here: http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-tp4960686.html > > Actually, this is what I had expected, because it resembles (unfortunately) > my general experience with Squeak/Pharo from several occaisional attempts to > use them. > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-tp4960519p… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoJS crashes at first try

by Frank-B

Paul, > What would you be willing to pay for a professionally commented, > functioning, and documented PharoJS? Pardon, but don't you notice yourself how absurd this question is? If not - and I am afraid you don't, I tell you why: - there is NOWHERE any proper listing of what this mysterious piece of software does (the slides don't tell anything) - before giving a quote, I would have to anylyse the architectural approach - and compare it with alternatives - no info available (read the docs on Orca and you know hwat I mean) - and see who delivers under which conditions - and how well things are documented. Be assured, that I am well prepared to pay accordingly for a proper product that I can use, provided that I make the decition to delegate such essential work to some outsider. This technical subject is a CORE feature of almost all of my future products, plans, ideas etc and it is therefore vital to choose the best and most fitting system. If there is no alternative, I would - in case of need - develop it rather myself than depend on an (assumed for the moment) instable and amateurish library. Frank -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-tp4960686p4960738.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoJS crashes at first try

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi Noury is still developing PharoJS. If you want to be productive you should report - what you did. - what went wrong. I will forward to Noury such information because he is not reading Pharo mailing-list. Stef On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Frank-B <frank.berger.software(a)web.de> wrote: > As recommended here: > http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-td4960519.… > by @Serge, I loaded the code and tried to run it. > > But, I almost tend to say "as usual", *it fails at first try*! > > I "did" the code in the Playground window but nothing happens, no code is > written into the selected directories. When I do "inspect it", I get a > window (see screenshots), which does not really tell me either, what has > happened (due to my lack of Pharo knowledge). > > Despite my over 20 years of full-time Smalltalk development, I have NOT any > experience with either Squeak nor Pharo and most of my attempts to use them > were very frustrating. > > Also, I do not feel like trying around, if and because: > - even the very first test fails immediately > - there is no meaningful documentation available > - the classes I looked at were all undocumented (for me, a 100% no-go, never > ever acceptable) > > And then, of course, also the test cases fail, because there is nothing in > the diretories, where some earlier output was expected. > > Pardon, but professionality and confidence causing systems look very > different too me. I am writing this with sadness, because it is certainly > not my first such experience in the Squeak/Pharo area. > > There are some very bright people engaged here, but for some reason many of > them lack some important aspects to be called professionals. > > Just FYI: My very first application software, an "ERP" system, which I > started developing more than 35 years ago in horrible Basic, is still > feeding a company (not mine) with >25 people as their sole product and has a > couple of hundred business users. Some of my former staff is still working > there and they said, this is only possible because I did force them > "dictatorially" to document / comment every single line of code. In the > beginning, they hated me for that. Today they are very thanksful. > > P.S. I DO have a very fast horse, because this is what one needs when > telling the truth - in these days when truth is the worst "hate crime". > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-tp4960686.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript?

by Frank-B

Stephan, nice ironies! My compliments for this! I won't comment your attempts to justify the "I contribute for my ego", which is published as a great Smalltalk system. I have made my point clear! One comment on this: > Your first message in this thread is excellent. I would expect most intelligent people to be interested in and gratefiul for honest experience reports and comments on the work one has done, especially when they come from a very experience collegues who has been in this business twice as long or more as presumably the majority of people here. Bur, or course, you are free (but not welcome with me) to have your own very different opinion like the chicks often being wiser than the hen. So let me comment this foolishness: > Creating documentation takes time and effort. That needs to be balanced > against other priorities. I feel sorry for you if you really have not yet understood that proper, early and complete documentation and comments ARE ONLY an investment in the code, because they save time and efforts later on, which always pay back - mostly multiple times. With my >35 years in the software business and around 30 years in o-o technologies it'd be a waste of time to disucss such statements with somebody who unfortunately has not been tought such core wisdoms at university. But to me this comes as no surprise, as almost all "teachers" in the broader sense on universities - at least in Europa - have hardly any practical experience themselves - much like the surgeon who has never performed an appendix operation but wants to teach student how to do it. And, of course, the duration of being in a business as such is no guarantee for expertise but still it increases its probabilty enormously. After all, you are all trying to point away from the essential questions: Why is Pharo giving it's name for an obviously (at first glance) lousy implemetation where not even the prepared demo parts are runnig out of the box? Is that ok for you? And why are we discussing only "my impertinence" to point openly on bugs and missing documentation!?!? This is so absurd! Frank -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-tp4960519p… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 13, 2017