August 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] vm crash when using rairedTo: with fractions

by Nicolas Cellier

Hi Tim, I'd say: is this a showstopper? How often do you raise a Fraction to the power of another Fraction with large denominator (> 10000)? Or is it used indirectly by some kind of Framework? If yes then open a pharo bug entry and mark for 6.x, else just wait 7.x... Nicolas 2017-08-14 10:49 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works>: > Is there a way for this to get back into 6.1 - so we can shoot for a > stable 6.x version that will last us for a year while 7.x is under > development? > > Iâm not familiar with how point release are handled in Pharo, and I get > the impression that this is going to be a slightly rockier year as there > have been some pretty revolutionary changes made to get us here. > > As its a vm change does this mean we get 6.2 queued up somehow? > > Tim > > > On 13 Aug 2017, at 20:12, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Tx eliot. > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Andrei, > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:02 AM, Andrei Chis < > chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I was executing this code '(2009/2000) ** (3958333/100000)' with the > >>> Pharo6.1 distribution and the vm crashed with she stack attached below. > >>> Tried it on both mac and windows 10. > >>> Seems that #raisedTo: has a special case for fractions that ends up > >>> calling #nthRoot: like '2009 nthRoot: 100000' leading to the crash. > >> > >> > >> The plugin is now fixed; see VMMaker.oscog-eem.2262. I'll generate code > >> soon (am debugging something you're familiar with that takes several > hours > >> to run and don't want to generate sources while it's running). But I'm > glad > >> you've found a better way! This case creates 600k byte large integers > and > >> takes forever to run :-) > >> > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Andrei > >>> > >>> > >>> 0xaddeac M LargePositiveInteger(Integer)>quo: 0x314093e8: a(n) > >>> LargePositiveInteger > >>> 0xaddec8 M LargePositiveInteger(LargeInteger)>quo: 0x314093e8: a(n) > >>> LargePositiveInteger > >>> 0xaddee8 M LargePositiveInteger(Integer)>// 0x314093e8: a(n) > >>> LargePositiveInteger > >>> 0xaddf04 M LargePositiveInteger(LargeInteger)>// 0x314093e8: a(n) > >>> LargePositiveInteger > >>> 0xaddf34 I LargePositiveInteger(Integer)>nthRootTruncated: 0x30cc8350: > >>> a(n) LargePositiveInteger > >>> 0xaddf5c I LargePositiveInteger(Integer)>nthRootRounded: 0x30cc8350: > a(n) > >>> LargePositiveInteger > >>> 0xaddf88 I SmallInteger(Integer)>nthRoot: 0xfb3=2009 > >>> 0xaddfb4 I Fraction>nthRoot: 0x4f9a940: a(n) Fraction > >>> 0xaddfd8 I Fraction(Number)>raisedTo: 0x4f9a940: a(n) Fraction > >>> 0xaddffc I Fraction(Number)>** 0x4f9a940: a(n) Fraction > >>> 0xade018 M UndefinedObject>DoIt 0x5fe5d00: a(n) UndefinedObject > >>> 0xade048 I OpalCompiler>evaluate 0x4f9a998: a(n) OpalCompiler > >>> 0xade074 I RubSmalltalkEditor>evaluate:andDo: 0x305e5878: a(n) > >>> RubSmalltalkEditor > >>> 0xade09c I RubSmalltalkEditor>highlightEvaluateAndDo: 0x305e5878: a(n) > >>> RubSmalltalkEditor > >>> 0xade0b8 M > >>> GLMMorphicPharoScriptRenderer(GLMMorphicPharoCodeRenderer)>popupPrint > >>> 0x3062fdc8: a(n) GLMMorphicPharoScri > >>> enderer > >>> 0xade0d8 I MorphicAlarm(MessageSend)>value 0x4f9ab20: a(n) > MorphicAlarm > >>> 0xade0f4 M MorphicAlarm>value: 0x4f9ab20: a(n) MorphicAlarm > >>> 0xade114 M WorldState>triggerAlarmsBefore: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState > >>> 0xade140 M WorldState>runLocalStepMethodsIn: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) > WorldState > >>> 0xade164 M WorldState>runStepMethodsIn: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState > >>> 0xade180 M WorldMorph>runStepMethods 0x6ab7778: a(n) WorldMorph > >>> 0xade198 M WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState > >>> 0xade1b4 M WorldState>doOneCycleFor: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState > >>> 0xade1d0 M WorldMorph>doOneCycle 0x6ab7778: a(n) WorldMorph > >>> 0xade1e8 M WorldMorph class>doOneCycle 0x6a9f960: a(n) WorldMorph class > >>> 0xade200 M [] in MorphicUIManager>spawnNewProcess 0x2cc88718: a(n) > >>> MorphicUIManager > >>> 0xade220 I [] in BlockClosure>newProcess 0x2f178150: a(n) BlockClosure > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _,,,^..^,,,_ > >> best, Eliot > > > > >

Aug. 14, 2017

@ H. Hirzel asking for the Orca docs

by Frank-B

Hello Hannes, for some reason your post does not show up here on the forum (and I hate mailing lists): > Hello Frank > > A question: you wrote earlier about an 'excellent' Orca documentation? > Where did you find it? > > http://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/projects/orca/index.html > has a demo video and installation instructions for server (Squeak) > and client (JavaScript) > > Or is it this paper [1] you are referring to? > > Regards > Hannes I did not save the links, because in these days of censoring I always donwload content of interest. But here are the full titles of the primary two documents, they should be easy to find: Lauritz Thamsen und mehrere andere Orca: A single-language web framework for collaborative Development 2012 International conference on Creating, Connecting and Collaboration through computing Lauritz Thamsen Object collaboration in the Orca web framework. I am currently working on an (internal) paper comparing the various systems. In case you are interested in an bilateral phone discussion and opinion exchange, your are most welcome. Please just drop me a line. Frank -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-tp4960519p… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript?

by Tudor Girba

Hi Frank, Craig is not working on PharoJS. He works on another project derived from SqueakJS (a project that offers a VM running inside the browser) that also has integration for Pharo. Cheers, Doru > On Aug 14, 2017, at 8:38 AM, Frank-B <frank.berger.software(a)web.de> wrote: > > Hello Craig, > > upfront thank you very much for being willing to respond to my problems and > questions. > > As I tried to make clear in this and the neighboring thread: > http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-td4960686.html > I am looking for a serious "professional" solution to combine server-side > Smalltalk with client-side JavaScript, which is sourced in the same > Smalltalk image that runs the server. This is an essntial part of all of my > product plans and ideas. I am only in software for mass-markets (Fremium > principle) and not in customer-centric projects like most Smalltalkers. > > Another important background: My quite large Smalltalk famework contains the > greatest parts of the data that defines the UI and, second, I have very > specific plans for the UI in the long run, because the UI decides mostly > about the success or failure of an application software. > > There are currently three "candidates": ST2JS, Orca and PharoJS. > > As you can read in the second thread (see link above) the PharoJS image > failed at first attempt. Therefore my question, are you aware of a working > image? > > Second, is there anywhere some detailed information available about what > PharoJS does and, at least basically, how it's done? (Side-remark: This part > is excellent for Orca, I recommend the Orca papers. Brilliant concepts!) > > Third, are you aware of real-life solutions based on PharoJS? > > I am currently still at the very beginning of my investigations and my very > first impression of PharoJS was the worst possible: The trial image failed > at first attempt and, even worse, neither general documentation nor > code/class comments were available. Both are a no-go for me, being a > "documentation fanatic" out of very long experience in software development. > > Thank you in advance for a short comment. > > Frank > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-tp4960519p… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Be rather willing to give than demanding to get."

Aug. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript?

by H. Hirzel

On 8/14/17, Frank-B <frank.berger.software(a)web.de> wrote: [snip] > There are currently three "candidates": ST2JS, Orca and PharoJS. > > As you can read in the second thread (see link above) the PharoJS image > failed at first attempt. Therefore my question, are you aware of a working > image? > > Second, is there anywhere some detailed information available about what > PharoJS does and, at least basically, how it's done? (Side-remark: This > part > is excellent for Orca, I recommend the Orca papers. Brilliant concepts!) > Hello Frank A question: you wrote earlier about an 'excellent' Orca documentation? Where did you find it? http://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/projects/orca/index.html has a demo video and installation instructions for server (Squeak) and client (JavaScript) Or is it this paper [1] you are referring to? Regards Hannes [1] http://squeak.org/research/ Lauritz Thamsen, Anton Gulenko, Michael Perscheid, Robert Krahn, Robert Hirschfeld, and David A. Thomas. âOrca: A Single-Language Web Framework for Collaborative Development.â In Proceedings of the Conference on Creating, Connecting and Collaborating through Computing (C5) 2012, 45â52. IEEE, 2012.

Aug. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] vm crash when using rairedTo: with fractions

by Tim Mackinnon

Is there a way for this to get back into 6.1 - so we can shoot for a stable 6.x version that will last us for a year while 7.x is under development? Iâm not familiar with how point release are handled in Pharo, and I get the impression that this is going to be a slightly rockier year as there have been some pretty revolutionary changes made to get us here. As its a vm change does this mean we get 6.2 queued up somehow? Tim > On 13 Aug 2017, at 20:12, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Tx eliot. > > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Andrei, >> >> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:02 AM, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I was executing this code '(2009/2000) ** (3958333/100000)' with the >>> Pharo6.1 distribution and the vm crashed with she stack attached below. >>> Tried it on both mac and windows 10. >>> Seems that #raisedTo: has a special case for fractions that ends up >>> calling #nthRoot: like '2009 nthRoot: 100000' leading to the crash. >> >> >> The plugin is now fixed; see VMMaker.oscog-eem.2262. I'll generate code >> soon (am debugging something you're familiar with that takes several hours >> to run and don't want to generate sources while it's running). But I'm glad >> you've found a better way! This case creates 600k byte large integers and >> takes forever to run :-) >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Andrei >>> >>> >>> 0xaddeac M LargePositiveInteger(Integer)>quo: 0x314093e8: a(n) >>> LargePositiveInteger >>> 0xaddec8 M LargePositiveInteger(LargeInteger)>quo: 0x314093e8: a(n) >>> LargePositiveInteger >>> 0xaddee8 M LargePositiveInteger(Integer)>// 0x314093e8: a(n) >>> LargePositiveInteger >>> 0xaddf04 M LargePositiveInteger(LargeInteger)>// 0x314093e8: a(n) >>> LargePositiveInteger >>> 0xaddf34 I LargePositiveInteger(Integer)>nthRootTruncated: 0x30cc8350: >>> a(n) LargePositiveInteger >>> 0xaddf5c I LargePositiveInteger(Integer)>nthRootRounded: 0x30cc8350: a(n) >>> LargePositiveInteger >>> 0xaddf88 I SmallInteger(Integer)>nthRoot: 0xfb3=2009 >>> 0xaddfb4 I Fraction>nthRoot: 0x4f9a940: a(n) Fraction >>> 0xaddfd8 I Fraction(Number)>raisedTo: 0x4f9a940: a(n) Fraction >>> 0xaddffc I Fraction(Number)>** 0x4f9a940: a(n) Fraction >>> 0xade018 M UndefinedObject>DoIt 0x5fe5d00: a(n) UndefinedObject >>> 0xade048 I OpalCompiler>evaluate 0x4f9a998: a(n) OpalCompiler >>> 0xade074 I RubSmalltalkEditor>evaluate:andDo: 0x305e5878: a(n) >>> RubSmalltalkEditor >>> 0xade09c I RubSmalltalkEditor>highlightEvaluateAndDo: 0x305e5878: a(n) >>> RubSmalltalkEditor >>> 0xade0b8 M >>> GLMMorphicPharoScriptRenderer(GLMMorphicPharoCodeRenderer)>popupPrint >>> 0x3062fdc8: a(n) GLMMorphicPharoScri >>> enderer >>> 0xade0d8 I MorphicAlarm(MessageSend)>value 0x4f9ab20: a(n) MorphicAlarm >>> 0xade0f4 M MorphicAlarm>value: 0x4f9ab20: a(n) MorphicAlarm >>> 0xade114 M WorldState>triggerAlarmsBefore: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState >>> 0xade140 M WorldState>runLocalStepMethodsIn: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState >>> 0xade164 M WorldState>runStepMethodsIn: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState >>> 0xade180 M WorldMorph>runStepMethods 0x6ab7778: a(n) WorldMorph >>> 0xade198 M WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState >>> 0xade1b4 M WorldState>doOneCycleFor: 0x71bb5e0: a(n) WorldState >>> 0xade1d0 M WorldMorph>doOneCycle 0x6ab7778: a(n) WorldMorph >>> 0xade1e8 M WorldMorph class>doOneCycle 0x6a9f960: a(n) WorldMorph class >>> 0xade200 M [] in MorphicUIManager>spawnNewProcess 0x2cc88718: a(n) >>> MorphicUIManager >>> 0xade220 I [] in BlockClosure>newProcess 0x2f178150: a(n) BlockClosure >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> _,,,^..^,,,_ >> best, Eliot >

Aug. 14, 2017

[Pharo 7] Build 34 - Issue 20301 loading of BaselineOfIDE must not resolve conflicts automatically

by Guillermo Polito

Build 34 https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/close/20301/loading-of-BaselineOfIDE-must… https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/190#pullrequestreview-56020044 -- Guille Polito Research Engineer French National Center for Scientific Research - *http://www.cnrs.fr* <http://www.cnrs.fr> *Web:* *http://guillep.github.io* <http://guillep.github.io> *Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13

Aug. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript?

by henry

Nice. - HH > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript? > Local Time: August 14, 2017 2:38 AM > UTC Time: August 14, 2017 6:38 AM > From: frank.berger.software(a)web.de > To: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org > > Hello Craig, > > upfront thank you very much for being willing to respond to my problems and > questions. > > As I tried to make clear in this and the neighboring thread: > http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-td4960686.html > I am looking for a serious "professional" solution to combine server-side > Smalltalk with client-side JavaScript, which is sourced in the same > Smalltalk image that runs the server. This is an essntial part of all of my > product plans and ideas. I am only in software for mass-markets (Fremium > principle) and not in customer-centric projects like most Smalltalkers. > > Another important background: My quite large Smalltalk famework contains the > greatest parts of the data that defines the UI and, second, I have very > specific plans for the UI in the long run, because the UI decides mostly > about the success or failure of an application software. > > There are currently three "candidates": ST2JS, Orca and PharoJS. > > As you can read in the second thread (see link above) the PharoJS image > failed at first attempt. Therefore my question, are you aware of a working > image? > > Second, is there anywhere some detailed information available about what > PharoJS does and, at least basically, how it"s done? (Side-remark: This part > is excellent for Orca, I recommend the Orca papers. Brilliant concepts!) > > Third, are you aware of real-life solutions based on PharoJS? > > I am currently still at the very beginning of my investigations and my very > first impression of PharoJS was the worst possible: The trial image failed > at first attempt and, even worse, neither general documentation nor > code/class comments were available. Both are a no-go for me, being a > "documentation fanatic" out of very long experience in software development. > > Thank you in advance for a short comment. > > Frank > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-tp4960519p… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript?

by Frank-B

Hello Craig, upfront thank you very much for being willing to respond to my problems and questions. As I tried to make clear in this and the neighboring thread: http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-td4960686.html I am looking for a serious "professional" solution to combine server-side Smalltalk with client-side JavaScript, which is sourced in the same Smalltalk image that runs the server. This is an essntial part of all of my product plans and ideas. I am only in software for mass-markets (Fremium principle) and not in customer-centric projects like most Smalltalkers. Another important background: My quite large Smalltalk famework contains the greatest parts of the data that defines the UI and, second, I have very specific plans for the UI in the long run, because the UI decides mostly about the success or failure of an application software. There are currently three "candidates": ST2JS, Orca and PharoJS. As you can read in the second thread (see link above) the PharoJS image failed at first attempt. Therefore my question, are you aware of a working image? Second, is there anywhere some detailed information available about what PharoJS does and, at least basically, how it's done? (Side-remark: This part is excellent for Orca, I recommend the Orca papers. Brilliant concepts!) Third, are you aware of real-life solutions based on PharoJS? I am currently still at the very beginning of my investigations and my very first impression of PharoJS was the worst possible: The trial image failed at first attempt and, even worse, neither general documentation nor code/class comments were available. Both are a no-go for me, being a "documentation fanatic" out of very long experience in software development. Thank you in advance for a short comment. Frank -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anybody-using-Orca-Smalltalk-to-JavaScript-tp4960519p… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript?

by henry

Nice. - HH > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript? > Local Time: August 14, 2017 2:09 AM > UTC Time: August 14, 2017 6:09 AM > From: craig(a)blackpagedigital.com > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Hi-- > > Eliot writes to Frank: > >> Craig Latta has done some strong work integrating Squeak and Pharo >> with the browser using a bridge derived from Bert Freudenberg"s >> SqueakJS. Craig"s work allows one to use Pharo running on the >> standard Cog VM, client side, to render to the browser, receive >> events from the browser, and manipulate the DOM. >> >> You could contact him to find out if his work is relevant to you. He >> isn"t comfortable discussing it on the Pharo lists himself. > > Oh, I"m plenty comfortable discussing it on the Pharo lists. :) I > was referring to different context in which someone asked me a question > here, and I got attacked for responding to it. > > Anyway, yes: livecoded Pharo in web browsers is working. > > thanks! > > -C > > -- > Craig Latta > Black Page Digital > Amsterdam :: San Francisco > craig(a)blackpagedigital.com > voice through 2017-09-12: > + 1 510 833 5799 (SMS ok) > +31 20 893 2796 (no SMS)

Aug. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Anybody using Orca Smalltalk to JavaScript?

by Craig Latta

Hi-- Eliot writes to Frank: > Craig Latta has done some strong work integrating Squeak and Pharo > with the browser using a bridge derived from Bert Freudenberg's > SqueakJS. Craig's work allows one to use Pharo running on the > standard Cog VM, client side, to render to the browser, receive > events from the browser, and manipulate the DOM. > > You could contact him to find out if his work is relevant to you. He > isn't comfortable discussing it on the Pharo lists himself. Oh, I'm plenty comfortable discussing it on the Pharo lists. :) I was referring to different context in which someone asked me a question here, and I got attacked for responding to it. Anyway, yes: livecoded Pharo in web browsers is working. thanks! -C -- Craig Latta Black Page Digital Amsterdam :: San Francisco craig(a)blackpagedigital.com voice through 2017-09-12: + 1 510 833 5799 (SMS ok) +31 20 893 2796 (no SMS)

Aug. 14, 2017