August 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Lowering the pain of newbies

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2017-08-21 15:39 GMT-03:00 Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>: > I'd prefer to not use `setName:` nor `setClassName:` as `setX:`/`setX:Y:` is > often used as a constructor initialization pattern (as per Kent Beck's > Smalltalk book). I use setX: with the same purpose, as per the same book recommendation. But isn't #name: (or #setName:) in Class used in the context of initialization only? > Maybe `changeNameTo:` to explicitly state the intent? Although I don't like the "change" prefix when it's a one way operation, that selector is unambiguous as it gets. >> It indirectly becomes some sort of "reserved word" of the language. > > Class has many such methods (and I've destroyed my image many times before I > subconsciously learned to avoid them), but only name tends to be problematic > so introducing "special" methods for meta methods seems pointless, as a > person doing metaprogramming would (must) take the care anyway to > distinguish on which side they are working on. +1 Esteban A. Maringolo

Aug. 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] AbstractFileReference>>ensureDelete when directory has children

by Alistair Grant

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 07:55:45PM +0200, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > Le 20/08/2017 ?? 19:53, Peter Uhn??k a ??crit : > > > > +1 > > > > The only problem may be that even the VM doesn't actually know the > > reason (it could just trigger the delete at vm-level which will just > > return a failure state). > > > > Peter > > The fact that is touch the vm is a reason I post here. It would be good > to have the advice of people knowing the FS management to know the best > way to do this. File deletion isn't handled directly by the VM, but by FilePlugin. I consider myself a beginner at VM plugins, but since no-one else has answered yet, my 2c: Modifying the directory deletion code is not as easy as one would like since there is a version per platform. At the moment there are six (assuming I've counted correctly): win32, Mac OS, iOS, RiscOS, Plan9, unix (iOS is a .m file, Objective-C presumably). However it looks like it will still be reasonably straight-foward since the functions return a boolean indicating success or failure, so it shouldn't be too difficult to convert this to a status code. I might have a go at this after my first plugin is accepted (but I can't make any promise). If no-one else makes the change and you don't want to wait, there are a couple of other options that don't require modification of the plugin: 1. Modify DiskStore>>delete: to check pre-conditions such as the directory being empty. While this is probably safe for checking that the directory is empty, for the more general case it is difficult since it will need to take in to account any difference in behaviour across platforms. 2. Modify the primitive failure handling code in FilePluginPrims>>deleteDirectory: to take a guess at why the primitive failed, e.g. is the directory empty. I think this is the safer approach since at least we already know that something has gone wrong. Cheers, Alistair

Aug. 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] TechTalk Dates for the rest of 2017

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

This should be mentioned on ESUG imho, so people can propose and more people know about the talks. Peter On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 7:47 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > I'm not sure Pharo tech talk is the good place but would love to see > such a presentation. > > > > Maybe you can do a Google or Twitch live video about that ? > > Sure! I am open to ideas :-) > > Alexandre > > > > > EnvoyÃ© de mon iPhone > > > >> Le 21 aoÃ»t 2017 Ã 18:38, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> a > Ã©crit : > >> > >> Hi! > >> > >> I am currently giving a lecture on Neural Networks and Genetic > Algorithm/Programming. > >> Maybe I could turn this into an express 2 hours mini-lecture. Would > this work? > >> > >> Anyone is interesting in programming, from scratch, a small artificial > intelligence? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Alexandre > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> We have added dates for tech talk discussions / Demos for the rest of > 2017: > >>> https://association.pharo.org/events > >>> > >>> We need to find some topics. In the past we had often formal âtalksâ > or demos about > >>> a topic with discussion afterwards, but a more relaxed form of just an > open discussion > >>> about a topic is possible, too, > >>> > >>> If you like to lead one of the dates (all but the November dates are > available still), this > >>> would be great. > >>> > >>> If a date does find a topic, we keep it as an open discussion round. > >>> > >>> Marcus > >> > >> -- > >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >

Aug. 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Lowering the pain of newbies

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

I'd prefer to not use `setName:` nor `setClassName:` as `setX:`/`setX:Y:` is often used as a constructor initialization pattern (as per Kent Beck's Smalltalk book). Using `className:` could be confusing, as it could be unclear whether you are changing the name of the class itself, or the name of the class of the class (the "Class class" class :)). Maybe `changeNameTo:` to explicitly state the intent? > It indirectly becomes some sort of "reserved word" of the language. Class has many such methods (and I've destroyed my image many times before I subconsciously learned to avoid them), but only name tends to be problematic so introducing "special" methods for meta methods seems pointless, as a person doing metaprogramming would (must) take the care anyway to distinguish on which side they are working on. Peter On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I avoid get/set prefixes in method selectors, however it is a "good > practice pattern" the use of the "set" prefix as a private accessor. > > I use it to build initialized instances, > > MyClass class>>#attribute: anObject > ^self new setAttribute: aString > > In some cases MyClass doesn't have the `#attribute:` setter because > it's not meant to be modified externally. > > In the case of the `name` setter for a class, adding the `class` > prefix is redundant, so I think that `setName:` is the right selector > to use. > > It's like the Clipboard class, that has the `clipboardText:` selector > instead of `text:` or something similar, but without the redundant > `clipboard` prefix. > > But without diverting from the main topic, I think that the `name` > accessor is one of the things that causes a lot of trouble because of > unanticipated side effects. It indirectly becomes some sort of > "reserved word" of the language. > > Also `name` is a common property in many domain objects, and creating > the accessors will create name:/name1 selectors, which is confusing > for newcomers as well, because they'd expect the #name getter instead > of #name1. > > Regards, > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2017-08-21 9:42 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > > its inconsistent to start using (set) in front of the name of methods and > > unnecessary > > > > className: > > > > makes more sense to me > > > > Another way to do this instead have something like classMetaData which > can > > be a dictionary containing all the data like name of the class, method > > dictionary etc this way we ensure that what happened with name does not > > happen with other methods too that may find themselves in a name > conflict by > > an unaware user. > > > > Or we can provide both ways or something else. > > > > Class name has caused me pain too and I am no newbie , when I was making > an > > API for Blender it clashed with the name of the 3d objects. So this is > > definitely not newbie orientated problem , its a fundamental problem. > > > > I dont mind which solution you guys follow , afterall its easy to solve > > cause its easy to override any solution I don't like. The beauty of > > Smalltalk :) > > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:05 AM Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > On 20 Aug 2017, at 23:48, Brad <bsselfridge(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > I vote for setClassName: > >> > > >> > >> setName: is better because this is what is there since many many yearsâ¦ > >> and by just using it > >> we must need to deprecate one method, not two. > >> > >> Marcus > >

Aug. 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] TechTalk Dates for the rest of 2017

by Alexandre Bergel

> I'm not sure Pharo tech talk is the good place but would love to see such a presentation. > > Maybe you can do a Google or Twitch live video about that ? Sure! I am open to ideas :-) Alexandre > > EnvoyÃ© de mon iPhone > >> Le 21 aoÃ»t 2017 Ã 18:38, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> a Ã©crit : >> >> Hi! >> >> I am currently giving a lecture on Neural Networks and Genetic Algorithm/Programming. >> Maybe I could turn this into an express 2 hours mini-lecture. Would this work? >> >> Anyone is interesting in programming, from scratch, a small artificial intelligence? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> We have added dates for tech talk discussions / Demos for the rest of 2017: >>> https://association.pharo.org/events >>> >>> We need to find some topics. In the past we had often formal âtalksâ or demos about >>> a topic with discussion afterwards, but a more relaxed form of just an open discussion >>> about a topic is possible, too, >>> >>> If you like to lead one of the dates (all but the November dates are available still), this >>> would be great. >>> >>> If a date does find a topic, we keep it as an open discussion round. >>> >>> Marcus >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >

Aug. 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] TechTalk Dates for the rest of 2017

by serge.stinckwich＠gmail.com

I'm not sure Pharo tech talk is the good place but would love to see such a presentation. Maybe you can do a Google or Twitch live video about that ? EnvoyÃ© de mon iPhone > Le 21 aoÃ»t 2017 Ã 18:38, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> a Ã©crit : > > Hi! > > I am currently giving a lecture on Neural Networks and Genetic Algorithm/Programming. > Maybe I could turn this into an express 2 hours mini-lecture. Would this work? > > Anyone is interesting in programming, from scratch, a small artificial intelligence? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > >> On Aug 21, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> We have added dates for tech talk discussions / Demos for the rest of 2017: >> https://association.pharo.org/events >> >> We need to find some topics. In the past we had often formal âtalksâ or demos about >> a topic with discussion afterwards, but a more relaxed form of just an open discussion >> about a topic is possible, too, >> >> If you like to lead one of the dates (all but the November dates are available still), this >> would be great. >> >> If a date does find a topic, we keep it as an open discussion round. >> >> Marcus > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > >

Aug. 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] TechTalk Dates for the rest of 2017

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi! I am currently giving a lecture on Neural Networks and Genetic Algorithm/Programming. Maybe I could turn this into an express 2 hours mini-lecture. Would this work? Anyone is interesting in programming, from scratch, a small artificial intelligence? Cheers, Alexandre > On Aug 21, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hi, > > We have added dates for tech talk discussions / Demos for the rest of 2017: > https://association.pharo.org/events > > We need to find some topics. In the past we had often formal âtalksâ or demos about > a topic with discussion afterwards, but a more relaxed form of just an open discussion > about a topic is possible, too, > > If you like to lead one of the dates (all but the November dates are available still), this > would be great. > > If a date does find a topic, we keep it as an open discussion round. > > Marcus -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 21, 2017

TechTalk Dates for the rest of 2017

by Marcus Denker

Hi, We have added dates for tech talk discussions / Demos for the rest of 2017: https://association.pharo.org/events <https://association.pharo.org/events> We need to find some topics. In the past we had often formal âtalksâ or demos about a topic with discussion afterwards, but a more relaxed form of just an open discussion about a topic is possible, too, If you like to lead one of the dates (all but the November dates are available still), this would be great. If a date does find a topic, we keep it as an open discussion round. Marcus

Aug. 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Lowering the pain of newbies

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I avoid get/set prefixes in method selectors, however it is a "good practice pattern" the use of the "set" prefix as a private accessor. I use it to build initialized instances, MyClass class>>#attribute: anObject ^self new setAttribute: aString In some cases MyClass doesn't have the `#attribute:` setter because it's not meant to be modified externally. In the case of the `name` setter for a class, adding the `class` prefix is redundant, so I think that `setName:` is the right selector to use. It's like the Clipboard class, that has the `clipboardText:` selector instead of `text:` or something similar, but without the redundant `clipboard` prefix. But without diverting from the main topic, I think that the `name` accessor is one of the things that causes a lot of trouble because of unanticipated side effects. It indirectly becomes some sort of "reserved word" of the language. Also `name` is a common property in many domain objects, and creating the accessors will create name:/name1 selectors, which is confusing for newcomers as well, because they'd expect the #name getter instead of #name1. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo 2017-08-21 9:42 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > its inconsistent to start using (set) in front of the name of methods and > unnecessary > > className: > > makes more sense to me > > Another way to do this instead have something like classMetaData which can > be a dictionary containing all the data like name of the class, method > dictionary etc this way we ensure that what happened with name does not > happen with other methods too that may find themselves in a name conflict by > an unaware user. > > Or we can provide both ways or something else. > > Class name has caused me pain too and I am no newbie , when I was making an > API for Blender it clashed with the name of the 3d objects. So this is > definitely not newbie orientated problem , its a fundamental problem. > > I dont mind which solution you guys follow , afterall its easy to solve > cause its easy to override any solution I don't like. The beauty of > Smalltalk :) > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:05 AM Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: >> >> >> > On 20 Aug 2017, at 23:48, Brad <bsselfridge(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > I vote for setClassName: >> > >> >> setName: is better because this is what is there since many many yearsâ¦ >> and by just using it >> we must need to deprecate one method, not two. >> >> Marcus

Aug. 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Lowering the pain of newbies

by Dimitris Chloupis

its inconsistent to start using (set) in front of the name of methods and unnecessary className: makes more sense to me Another way to do this instead have something like classMetaData which can be a dictionary containing all the data like name of the class, method dictionary etc this way we ensure that what happened with name does not happen with other methods too that may find themselves in a name conflict by an unaware user. Or we can provide both ways or something else. Class name has caused me pain too and I am no newbie , when I was making an API for Blender it clashed with the name of the 3d objects. So this is definitely not newbie orientated problem , its a fundamental problem. I dont mind which solution you guys follow , afterall its easy to solve cause its easy to override any solution I don't like. The beauty of Smalltalk :) On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:05 AM Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > On 20 Aug 2017, at 23:48, Brad <bsselfridge(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I vote for setClassName: > > > > setName: is better because this is what is there since many many yearsâ¦ > and by just using it > we must need to deprecate one method, not two. > > Marcus >

Aug. 21, 2017