April 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Remove all Configurations in the Pharo 6 release?

by Andrei Chis

On Apr 14, 2017 14:13, "Pavel Krivanek" <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: 2017-04-14 12:52 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com>: > Isn't it a bit too late for such a change? Might break projects that > expect configurations to be present. > I do not think so. We do not have configurations for the system itself (well, we have them in an external repository but they are not update since switch to baselines). They are used only for the actively maintained semi-external projects like GT, QA, Epicea, Zinc etc. However even in that case they are sometimes out-of-sync with the upstream. Most users of such configurations are using the upstream configurations. If some one is using wrongly the versions in Pharo, he uses reference to the Pharo repository where the configurations will still be present. For the record, I still think it's not the best idea to do this now :) Cheers, Andrei Cheers, -- Pavel > > Cheers, > Andrei > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> in Pharo 7 all configurations will be removed and replaced with the >> baselines. The bootstrapped image itself does not load the configurations >> at all. Most of them is now outdated and old versions of configurations in >> the standard Pharo image can cause problems for users of newer versions >> semi-internal packages (like Moose-Algos). >> >> So we, me and Cyril think that we should remove all current >> Configurations from the image just before the Pharo 6 release. Do you see >> any disadvantages of this step? >> >> Cheers, >> -- Pavel >> > >

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Andrei Chis

On Apr 14, 2017 14:11, "Denis Kudriashov" <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: Maybe I am alone who do not like the dark theme. I'm also a fan of the white team. Can't really use the dark one. Cheers, Andrei But to me it is too late for such change. I am sure there are UI widgets/projects which looks horrible in dark. And people probably test them in pharo 6 before this change. So they will be very surprised. Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly discussed. We should vote for such kind of changes. Anyway settings are recovered at image startup. So I can live with it. 2017-04-14 9:09 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > Hello guys, > > I wanted to let you know that we talked at the board and we want to make > the DarkTheme a default for Pharo 6.0. > This is just because we want to have a visual immediate reference of > changing things (yeah, marketing ;) ) > > Those which still do not like it can still execute > > Pharo3Theme beCurrent. > > (in their startup actions, if you want) > > And everything will be as before. > > Esteban >

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Denis Kudriashov

2017-04-14 13:46 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > But look&feel is different. You just open Pharo and have impression is it > looks good or not. Voting can work here. > > > yeah, but is impossible to satisfy everybodyâ¦ specially in non-technical > stuff :) > It is important to satisfy majority. And it will be nice for people like me to be sure that we are special :) Now I am sure that I am average person and most of people do not like dark :)

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Denis Kudriashov

2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > But to me it is too late for such change. I am sure there are UI > widgets/projects which looks horrible in dark. And people probably test > them in pharo 6 before this change. So they will be very surprised. > > > no, dark theme is around since 3 years and is very depurated. In fact, > many people already use it as they preferred theme. > Just open any project with Versioner. Symbolic versions are in green oval with white label. It is almost unreadable. Do you remember how many times Steph complains about style of current white theme? I am sure he not deeply look into dark.

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:44, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: >> Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly discussed. We should vote for such kind of changes. > > no, this is not how it works. > > yes, it is how it could work :) > > Current approach is not bad for technical choices because it is difficult to make everybody evolved in particular technical topic. > But look&feel is different. You just open Pharo and have impression is it looks good or not. Voting can work here. yeah, but is impossible to satisfy everybodyâ¦ specially in non-technical stuff :) Esteban

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Denis Kudriashov

2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly discussed. > We should vote for such kind of changes. > > > no, this is not how it works. > yes, it is how it could work :) Current approach is not bad for technical choices because it is difficult to make everybody evolved in particular technical topic. But look&feel is different. You just open Pharo and have impression is it looks good or not. Voting can work here.

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Please, test our 64bits builds

by Alistair Grant

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 01:29:05PM +0200, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > > On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:20, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 05:44:05PM +0200, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > >> - Iceberg commits do not work (known issue) > > > > Is there a fogbugz issue for this? > > no, and there is also no iceberg issue (iceberg is developed separately, at least for the moment) > but I???m tracking the problem and I will have a solution soon ;) Thanks (and to Pavel) for the update / clarification. Cheers, Alistair

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:27, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:10, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com <mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Maybe I am alone who do not like the dark theme. > > you can put a preference to switch it back. > >> But to me it is too late for such change. I am sure there are UI widgets/projects which looks horrible in dark. And people probably test them in pharo 6 before this change. So they will be very surprised. > > no, dark theme is around since 3 years and is very depurated. In fact, many people already use it as they preferred theme. > >> Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly discussed. We should vote for such kind of changes. > > no, this is not how it works. > We do not vote: most of the decisions are made by consensus and there is also the board who takes some decisions without asking because we pursuit an objective: for example we did not ask anybody if they wanted a new browser, we (the board) decided that Nautilus was not good enough and then we pushed for Calypso. btwâ¦ this does not means board decisions are irreversible: everybody can discus it before, during and after changes happens. If we find we were wrong, we can always revert. > >> Anyway settings are recovered at image startup. So I can live with it. > > yep, thatâs the ideaâ¦ nothing is irreversible :) > > Esteban > >> >> 2017-04-14 9:09 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: >> Hello guys, >> >> I wanted to let you know that we talked at the board and we want to make the DarkTheme a default for Pharo 6.0. >> This is just because we want to have a visual immediate reference of changing things (yeah, marketing ;) ) >> >> Those which still do not like it can still execute >> >> Pharo3Theme beCurrent. >> >> (in their startup actions, if you want) >> >> And everything will be as before. >> >> Esteban >> >

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Please, test our 64bits builds

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:20, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 05:44:05PM +0200, Pavel Krivanek wrote: >> - Iceberg commits do not work (known issue) > > Is there a fogbugz issue for this? no, and there is also no iceberg issue (iceberg is developed separately, at least for the moment) but Iâm tracking the problem and I will have a solution soon ;) Esteban > > Thanks, > Alistair > >

April 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Please, test our 64bits builds

by Pavel Krivanek

2017-04-14 13:20 GMT+02:00 Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com>: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 05:44:05PM +0200, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > > - Iceberg commits do not work (known issue) > > Is there a fogbugz issue for this? > Iceberg issues are currently not maintained by FogBugz but own issue GitHub issue tracker. Anyway, this issue is not reported there, we were only talking about it with Esteban before. Iceberg was not supposed to work on 64-bits. -- Pavel > > Thanks, > Alistair > > >

April 14, 2017