April 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Implementers code pane undo goes too far

by Ben Coman

I hit some strange behaviour... Setup... 1. In playground, type... green 2. Open implementers on it 3. Select the second line "Color class(defaults) green" 4. Click in the code pane Observe that "green" is pre-selected and the cursor is flashing at end of first line 5. Start typing... self halt. Observe the method name is overwritten Problem... 6. Hit CTRL-Z three times. Observe the instance side #green is displayed rather than the class side. Auxiliary... Now save it and work out how to get out of the mess (pretending you didn't notice what had happened) https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19972/Implementers-code-pane-undo-goes-to… cheers -ben

April 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] do we "how to use Announcements" somewhere

by Stephane Ducasse

But someone has to enhance documentation because I start to have no energy for documenting other works. Stef On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:14 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I was just explaining how Announcer/Announcements work to somebody > because I couldn't find any online resource, but I thought I saw it > somewhere. > >> > >> Do we have it explained in some book? > >> > >> Peter > >> > > > > I remember finding this tutorial very instructive. Its quite old so > > I'm not sure how current it is, but I don't think much has changed > > with the Announcements API. > > http://pharo.dougedmunds.com/pmwiki.php?n=Pharo.AnnouncementsTutorial > > > > Also... > > http://pharo.gemtalksystems.com/book/LanguageAndLibraries/announcements/ > > and... > > https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2016/09/03/building-an- > announcement-spy-in/ > > > > cheers -ben > > Oh, and... > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoLimbo/blob/master/ > Announcements/Announcements.pdf > > cheers -ben > >

April 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Traits methods flattened

by Ben Coman

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > Hi, > > I installed the slice in a Pharo5 image. It does not work on my package, > nor the the test package. > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19938 > > Does the slice only work on Pharo6? I don't know, but I see sixty Trait related issues integrated into Pharo 6. https://tinyurl.com/Pharo60IssuesTraits cheers -ben

April 21, 2017

Traits methods flattened

by Hilaire

Hi, I installed the slice in a Pharo5 image. It does not work on my package, nor the the test package. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19938 Does the slice only work on Pharo6? Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Stephan Eggermont

On 21/04/17 15:22, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > its ironic you say this Stephan > > and the irony is that you claim that Dark Theme is inappropriate because > Pharo uses so many hard coded colours when it was Esteban's effort to > have a dark theme that decreased the amount of hard coded methods and > modified them to support themes. The very reason you use that Dark > Theme should not be used as default is the very reason to use it because > it will forces us to detect those methods and convert them to support > our Theme classes. This will not only improve the Dark Themes but ANY > future theme. No. That is just an indicator that we are far from finished, and that is one good reason not to switch to it close to release. The other reasons are: - it breaks our own feature freeze rule; - giving us not enough time to test; - the number of hard-coded colors suggests that our practical (non-automated) test coverage is low and the actual users of dark theme have usage patterns that miss parts of the system; - it focuses attention on a part of the system that should be irrelevant so close to release; - it forces projects that depend on pharo to make changes now; - making it more difficult for them to release close after pharo releases; - and thus makes pharo release management look amateurish; - it is a bad default for the majority of users; - who will mostly not do any testing but only switch to light theme as fast as possible, especially when confronted with a decision made like this; - and is thus bad marketing; - it is taking a lot of time from the people who should be doing more productive things. Stephan

April 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Dimitris Chloupis

its ironic you say this Stephan and the irony is that you claim that Dark Theme is inappropriate because Pharo uses so many hard coded colours when it was Esteban's effort to have a dark theme that decreased the amount of hard coded methods and modified them to support themes. The very reason you use that Dark Theme should not be used as default is the very reason to use it because it will forces us to detect those methods and convert them to support our Theme classes. This will not only improve the Dark Themes but ANY future theme. What I can say with certainty is that the way to move forward is most definitely not to move back. I also do not like the fact that GTSpotter has its own theme support , I found it a terrible idea when it first appeared, after a long time using GTSpotter , still find it a terrible idea that is completely disconnected from the main theme. On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 3:49 PM Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > On 21/04/17 13:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:53 PM Ben Coman > > <btc(a)openinworld.com > > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com > > <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > You know what amazes me about this discussion ? > > > > > > not one even bothered posting > > > a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one . > > > > To rebut you, you haven't been paying attention :) :P > > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19941/Dark-Theme-overlapped-title-bars-ne… > > > > cheers -ben > > > > > > I mean in this thread , will make it easier, because for example fogbuz > > asks for a login. > > You still haven't been paying attention. We have hard-coded colors all > over the place. And I am not interested in new bug reports now. I want > the theme switch reverted and done after the release. This is just bad > process and it should be stopped. > > Stephan > > > >

April 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Stephan Eggermont

On 21/04/17 13:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:53 PM Ben Coman > <btc(a)openinworld.com > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com > <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: > > You know what amazes me about this discussion ? > > > > not one even bothered posting > > a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one . > > To rebut you, you haven't been paying attention :) :P > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19941/Dark-Theme-overlapped-title-bars-ne… > > cheers -ben > > > I mean in this thread , will make it easier, because for example fogbuz > asks for a login. You still haven't been paying attention. We have hard-coded colors all over the place. And I am not interested in new bug reports now. I want the theme switch reverted and done after the release. This is just bad process and it should be stopped. Stephan

April 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] In the quest of a new iterator :)

by Ben Coman

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:05:15AM +0800, Ben Coman wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:31 AM, Nicolas Cellier > > <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On the other hand, we have #keysAndValuesDo: which competes with > > > #withIndexDo: and is a bit more portable across dialects > > > (it's just that it turns the bloc parameters the other way around, > [:index > > > :element | ]) > > > > > > So maybe this should have been #keysAndValuesSelect: > #keysAndValuesCollect: > > > > > > Reminder, keys does not mean Dictionary, in an IndexedCollection (or > maybe a > > > SequenceableCollection) the keys are indices. Or the other way around, > a > > > Dictionary is indexed by arbitrary keys (not just positive integers). > > > > Sounds like something I should know, but I'm not quite getting it. > > Could you provide an example? > > Is this what you meant? > > > | results | > > results := OrderedCollection new. > #('a' 'b' 'c' 'd') keysAndValuesDo: > [ :k :v | results add: { k. v. } ]. > results > > I thought you meant "something" else and wasn't sure what. That clears it up. thx. cheers -ben

April 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

How you could support democracy then putting smiles besides "no democracy"? I don't get it. Maybe you like dictatorship, good for you. I don't like them, benevolent or not. You read stories in books. I had born in a military regime, me and my parents lived it, so what do you want to teach me about having military forces around? Again, you don't have any idea of my mood, so please do yourself a favor and stop talking about things you don't really know. Don't put ad hominem on me, if you want to support "benevolent" or malicious dictators good for you. But I don't have anything to do with your argumentation. 2017-04-21 8:22 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:52 PM HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < > hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Then don't talk about democracy, because you weren't born at Ottoman >> Empire nor Nazi occupation, and many of us actually were born and lived >> under military dictatorship. >> > > I am perplexed from your reply. First your logic makes zero sense for me. > I am deeply touched by the pain embedded in the stories I read in books and > personal witness accounts of several relatives that were present during > Great Fire of Smyrna and the Nazi Occupation. My grandparents were "lucky" > enough to suffer both and spared no details of the atrocities they > witnessed. These stories have shaped my entire personal identity and guides > me in life to respect and tolerate others. If i really needed to live in a > non democratic regime to understand this then I would feel that I let these > people down (which I so dearly love) and I could never imagine myself > doing that. > > If you want to know I am hardcore supporter of democracy , especially > direct technocratic (technology and science based) democracy. So your reply > makes me smile more than frustrate me because of how far from the truth you > really are. > > I was referring to Pharo and was definitely did not suggest to take arms > and kill anyone who disagrees with us. As I already explained even in a > democracy there is a chain of command and frankly a forum is a lousy way to > exercise democratic leadership. Not all participate here and messages are > about complains and questions not praise. So its a bad representation of > the community feelings though a great way to exchange knowledge an help > each other. Its much easier and efficient to have a central committee as > Pharo has that makes these decisions obviously by taking into account the > community and what the users really want. > > Also as I stated form the start I do not have a problem with making or not > making the dark theme the default theme. What I do like however is that we > have a leadership that take decisions without having to apologise for them. > They try to do their best to make the community happy and I think they do a > pretty good job at it. Taking into account how extremely popular dark > themes really are. > > Do not worry you wont be hearing or reading about my political beliefs, > here or anywhere, I rarely mention them. People find them hard to digest > and I am not very diplomatic at presenting them, but I am working on it :) > > In any case I am not offended by your remarks, I know you mean well and > you just used my message as a way to express your anger for things > unrelated to me. I respect your anger and your pain and I hope you find the > healing you deserve and a happy life. > > >

April 21, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

by Dimitris Chloupis

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:53 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > You know what amazes me about this discussion ? > > > > not one even bothered posting > > a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one . > > To rebut you, you haven't been paying attention :) :P > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19941/Dark-Theme-overlapped-title-bars-ne… > > cheers -ben > > I mean in this thread , will make it easier, because for example fogbuz asks for a login. Though I agree bug reports is the best way to report these issues :) I think a potential solution would be to offer several Dark Themes instead of one, so maybe as a community we can agree a few of them and I can make then and Esteban integrate them. We could also do the same for the white theme. There is little reason to be only 2. This way we will have a happier community.

April 21, 2017