March 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/60433 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

March 7, 2017

[pharo-project/pharo-core] e72b6d: 60433

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/6.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: e72b6dd20586d0281d6e27e1e12d54fb47a25d38 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/e72b6dd20586d0281d6e27e1… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2017-03-07 (Tue, 07 Mar 2017) Changed paths: M Nautilus.package/AbstractNautilusUI.class/instance/announcement registration/registerToSystemAnnouncements.st M Reflectivity.package/ReflectiveMethod.class/instance/accessing/compiledMethod_.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60432.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60433.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60432.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60433.st M ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M Tests.package/SystemAnnouncerLiveTest.class/instance/tests/testNoDeadSubscriptions.st M Tests.package/SystemAnnouncerLiveTest.class/instance/tests/testOnlyWeakSubscriptions.st M Tests.package/SystemAnnouncerLiveTest.class/instance/tests/testSaneSubscriptionSize.st Log Message: ----------- 60433 19809 Failing test: WeakAnnouncerTest>>#testNoDeadWeakSubscriptions https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19809 19799 Nautilus rebuilds the package view twice when adding a new protocol https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19799 19810 Non weak announcements in the SystemAnnouncer https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19810 http://files.pharo.org/image/60/60433.zip

March 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Testing Pharo64 on macOS

by Alexandre Bergel

Yes! Today with Ronie we played with Pharo64 + lowcode + Metal (new 3d engine for OSX). Impressive!! Alexandre > On Mar 6, 2017, at 9:14 PM, Juraj Kubelka <juraj.kubelka(a)icloud.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have tried Pharo64 on macOS. > > It is not possible to open it from Finder by dragging .image file and dropping it on Pharo.app. Dock shows Pharo icon but it immediately closes without any error message. > > I can open it using ./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo ./Pharo64-60432.image > > Then I have loaded Iceberg and it works. Loading another project using Iceberg does not work because of missing libgit2 library. > > Spotter search input is white, but it may not related to 64bit version. > > Thanks for the 64bit effort :-) > Juraj > > -=-=-=- > Image > ----- > /Users/jura/Downloads/pharo-64/Pharo64-60432.image > Pharo6.0 > Latest update: #60432 > Unnamed > > Virtual Machine > --------------- > /Users/jura/Downloads/pharo-64/./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo > CoInterpreter * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 3 2017 > StackToRegisterMappingCogit * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 3 2017 > VM: 201703031554 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ Date: Fri Mar 3 16:54:16 2017 +0100 $ Plugins: 201703031554 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ > > Mac OS X built on Mar 3 2017 23:52:26 UTC Compiler: 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 7.3.0 (clang-703.0.31) > VMMaker versionString VM: 201703031554 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ Date: Fri Mar 3 16:54:16 2017 +0100 $ Plugins: 201703031554 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ > CoInterpreter * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 3 2017 > StackToRegisterMappingCogit * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 3 2017 > -=-=-=-=- -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 7, 2017

Testing Pharo64 on macOS

by Juraj Kubelka

Hi, I have tried Pharo64 on macOS. It is not possible to open it from Finder by dragging .image file and dropping it on Pharo.app. Dock shows Pharo icon but it immediately closes without any error message. I can open it using ./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo ./Pharo64-60432.image Then I have loaded Iceberg and it works. Loading another project using Iceberg does not work because of missing libgit2 library. Spotter search input is white, but it may not related to 64bit version. Thanks for the 64bit effort :-) Juraj -=-=-=- Image ----- /Users/jura/Downloads/pharo-64/Pharo64-60432.image Pharo6.0 Latest update: #60432 Unnamed Virtual Machine --------------- /Users/jura/Downloads/pharo-64/./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo CoInterpreter * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 3 2017 StackToRegisterMappingCogit * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 3 2017 VM: 201703031554 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ Date: Fri Mar 3 16:54:16 2017 +0100 $ Plugins: 201703031554 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ Mac OS X built on Mar 3 2017 23:52:26 UTC Compiler: 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 7.3.0 (clang-703.0.31) VMMaker versionString VM: 201703031554 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ Date: Fri Mar 3 16:54:16 2017 +0100 $ Plugins: 201703031554 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ CoInterpreter * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 3 2017 StackToRegisterMappingCogit * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 3 2017 -=-=-=-=-

March 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by Ben Coman

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > This is not only when teaching. > > I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. > > Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. > > We need an "Airplane mode" switch. That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent mode button on the background, or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. cheers -ben > > Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. > > Phil > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities >> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and >> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their >> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now >> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. >> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the >> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do >> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) >> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of >> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to >> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can >> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing >> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. >> >> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just >> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time >> anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ >> >> Uko >> >> > On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> > >> > One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad >> > french university >> > with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros >> > only and we can >> > go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >> > Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >> > >> > <sorry I could not resist> >> > >> >> >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >> >> >> >> Yes, it most certainly should be. >> >> >> >> If only we could then tell user to type >> >> >> >> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >> >> >> >> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >> >> >> >> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >> >> >> >>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> >> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> >>>> >> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… >> >>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you >> >>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Also, I see >> >>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… >> >>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >> >>>> >> >>>> I donât know. >> >>>> It shouldnât :) >> >>>> >> >>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and >> >>>> they should be in catalog) :) >> >>>> >> >>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the >> >>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the >> >>>> two themes policy). >> >>> >> >>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >> >>> >> >>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >> >>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait >> >>> for P7, yes. >> >>> >> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >> >>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward >> >>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed >> >>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. >> >>> >> >>> -- Pavel >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Esteban >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- Pavel >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Esteban >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Phil >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano >> >>>>> <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Hi, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, >> >>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like >> >>>>>> in general all this new additions. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated >> >>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea >> >>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people >> >>>>> to install other themes from catalog. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and >> >>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened >> >>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to >> >>>>> clean up, not without problems. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> cheers, >> >>>>> Esteban >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed >> >>>>> to control the flow of issues... >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a >> >>>>>> good thing. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) >> >>>>>> frozen version? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I >> >>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and >> >>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why >> >>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that >> >>>>>> meant: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >> >>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo >> >>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a >> >>>>>> callback problem). >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in >> >>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train >> >>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip >> >>>>>> (linux) >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need >> >>>>>> them) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> cheers, >> >>>>>> Esteban >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> > >> >> >

March 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by Yuriy Tymchuk

I am not sure. I think that there may be many-many distributions. Because now we are talking about one feature of Spotter. There is definitely another tool that has controversial usage. Even with QualityAssistant there are rules which are useful for novices, but annoying for some experienced developers. So then you can have Pro and Newb versions. But as the result you will have Pro/Fast-Internet, Newb/Fast-Internet, Pro/Slow-Internet, Newb/Slow-Internet. I think you get an idea. Yes, now Iâm also upset that the feature is not active by default (although I just saved the setting and forgot about it). But in a long run I think that we need a way to modularly compose images for our needs. Uko > On 6 Mar 2017, at 23:18, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > I know, it is just a conflict in goals/objectives/target audience. > > I think we can only solve that with 2 versions, an edu and a pro version, that maybe should only differ in a couple of preferences and defaults. > >> On 6 Mar 2017, at 22:55, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. >> >> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ >> >> Uko >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>> One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad french university >>> with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros only and we can >>> go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >>> Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >>> >>> <sorry I could not resist> >>> >>>> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >>>> >>>> Yes, it most certainly should be. >>>> >>>> If only we could then tell user to type >>>> >>>> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >>>> >>>> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >>>> >>>> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >>>> >>>>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, I see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >>>>>> >>>>>> I donât know. >>>>>> It shouldnât :) >>>>>> >>>>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and they should be in catalog) :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the two themes policy). >>>>> >>>>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >>>>> >>>>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >>>>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait for P7, yes. >>>>> >>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >>>>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. >>>>> >>>>> -- Pavel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Esteban >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Pavel >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Esteban >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like in general all this new additions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people to install other themes from catalog. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to clean up, not without problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed to control the flow of issues... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a good thing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) frozen version? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why Spotter does not shows search line. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that meant: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >>>>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a callback problem). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in general deserves a lot of testing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip (linux) >>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >>>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need them) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> >> >> > >

March 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by phil＠highoctane.be

This is not only when teaching. I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. We need an "Airplane mode" switch. Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. Phil On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities > with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and > they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their > offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now > we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. > Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the > plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to > do a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) > Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of > automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to > have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can > install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing > you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. > > Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just > set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time > anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ > > Uko > > > On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > > One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad > french university > > with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros > only and we can > > go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. > > Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. > > > > <sorry I could not resist> > > > >> > >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: > >>> > >>> We should make it available from the catalog :) > >> > >> Yes, it most certainly should be. > >> > >> If only we could then tell user to type > >> > >> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter > >> > >> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) > >> > >> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> > >> > >>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >>> > >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >>>> > >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator- > simple/7294/artifact/report.html is not integrated for some Monkey reason > anyway - still should b/c if you put sublimish, you need a decent matching > Spotter. > >>>>> > >>>>> Also, I see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/ > cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-SublimishTheme on 5/3. If this > moves forward, why not the other one? > >>>>> > >>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? > >>>> > >>>> I donât know. > >>>> It shouldnât :) > >>>> > >>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and > they should be in catalog) :) > >>>> > >>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the > fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the > two themes policy). > >>> > >>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) > >>> > >>>> > >>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. > >>> > >>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. > >>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait > for P7, yes. > >>> > >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme > >>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward > and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed > again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. > >>> > >>> -- Pavel > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Esteban > >>> > >>>> > >>>> -- Pavel > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Esteban > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Phil > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano < > estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, > but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like > in general all this new additions. > >>>>> > >>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated > SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea > is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow > people to install other themes from catalog. > >>>>> > >>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and > then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened > that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to > clean up, not without problems. > >>>>> > >>>>> cheers, > >>>>> Esteban > >>>>> > >>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed > to control the flow of issues... > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a > good thing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) > frozen version? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I > can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and > mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why > Spotter does not shows search line. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that > meant: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI > >>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo > (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a > callback problem). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in > general deserves a lot of testing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train > now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip > >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip > (linux) > >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) > >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need > them) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> cheers, > >>>>>> Esteban > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > > > >

March 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

I know, it is just a conflict in goals/objectives/target audience. I think we can only solve that with 2 versions, an edu and a pro version, that maybe should only differ in a couple of preferences and defaults. > On 6 Mar 2017, at 22:55, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > > The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. > > Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ > > Uko > >> On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad french university >> with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros only and we can >> go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >> Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >> >> <sorry I could not resist> >> >>> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >>> >>> Yes, it most certainly should be. >>> >>> If only we could then tell user to type >>> >>> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >>> >>> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >>> >>> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >>> >>>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >>>>> >>>>> I donât know. >>>>> It shouldnât :) >>>>> >>>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and they should be in catalog) :) >>>>> >>>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the two themes policy). >>>> >>>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >>>> >>>>> >>>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >>>> >>>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >>>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait for P7, yes. >>>> >>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >>>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. >>>> >>>> -- Pavel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Pavel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Esteban >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like in general all this new additions. >>>>>> >>>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people to install other themes from catalog. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to clean up, not without problems. >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers, >>>>>> Esteban >>>>>> >>>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed to control the flow of issues... >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a good thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) frozen version? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why Spotter does not shows search line. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that meant: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >>>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a callback problem). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in general deserves a lot of testing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip (linux) >>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >>>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need them) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> > >

March 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by Yuriy Tymchuk

The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ Uko > On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: > > One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad french university > with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros only and we can > go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. > Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. > > <sorry I could not resist> > >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >> >> Yes, it most certainly should be. >> >> If only we could then tell user to type >> >> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >> >> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >> >> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >> >>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >>>>> >>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >>>>> >>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >>>> >>>> I donât know. >>>> It shouldnât :) >>>> >>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and they should be in catalog) :) >>>> >>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the two themes policy). >>> >>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >>> >>>> >>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >>> >>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait for P7, yes. >>> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. >>> >>> -- Pavel >>> >>> >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>>> >>>> -- Pavel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like in general all this new additions. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people to install other themes from catalog. >>>>> >>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to clean up, not without problems. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, >>>>> Esteban >>>>> >>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed to control the flow of issues... >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a good thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) frozen version? >>>>>> >>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why Spotter does not shows search line. >>>>>> >>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that meant: >>>>>> >>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a callback problem). >>>>>> >>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in general deserves a lot of testing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip (linux) >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need them) >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers, >>>>>> Esteban >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> > > > -- > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >

March 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by stepharong

One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad french university with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros only and we can go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. <sorry I could not resist> > >> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> We should make it available from the catalog :) > > Yes, it most certainly should be. > > If only we could then tell user to type > > Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter > > to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) > > Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> > >> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >>>> >>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… >>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if >>>> you put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >>>> >>>> Also, I see >>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… >>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >>>> >>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >>> >>> I donât know. >>> It shouldnât :) >>> >>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and >>> they should be in catalog) :) >>> >>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the >>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware >>> of the two themes policy). >> >> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >> >>> >>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >> >> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait for >> P7, yes. >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward >> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And >> showed again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in >> the system. >> >> -- Pavel >> >> >> >> Esteban >> >>> >>> -- Pavel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano >>>> <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, >>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and >>>>> I like in general all this new additions. >>>> >>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated >>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: >>>> My idea is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, >>>> and allow people to install other themes from catalog. >>>> >>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and >>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already >>>> happened that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and >>>> we needed to clean up, not without problems. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed >>>> to control the flow of issues... >>>> >>>>> >>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a >>>>> good thing. >>>>> >>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) frozen >>>>> version? >>>>> >>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I >>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use >>>>> linux and mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits >>>>> version. >>>>> >>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why >>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. >>>>> >>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that >>>>> meant: >>>>> >>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo >>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that >>>>> causes a callback problem). >>>>> >>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in >>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. >>>>> >>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train >>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >>>>> >>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip (linux) >>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need >>>>> them) >>>>> >>>>> cheers, >>>>> Esteban >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

March 6, 2017