February 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] 17240 Spur, when saving an image, it never shrinks

by denker

> On 16 Feb 2017, at 16:22, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > >> On 16 Feb 2017, at 16:16, denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> No, >> >> Our image is not 47 MBâ¦ more like 28. >> >> My understanding is: >> -> Cog works with âpagesâ (is that the term?) of memory. >> -> if a page is empty, it gets cleaned up and does not cost space when saving. >> -> if there is some object still allocated, the whole page will be saved (partly empty) >> >> Not sure if that is completely right, but it explains why the image with >> lots of objects allocated new can shrink again, while the 47MB never shrinks, even though the >> image for sure is much smaller. >> >> => what is missing is a âcleanupâ phase that sweeps together all the half-empty pages. >> >> What is fun is that we now ship a 47MB image and nobody ever complains. (or even asks) > > Yeah, that proves it is not such a big deal, today. > But still, we have to fix this discrepancy between 28 and 47. > As I tried to explain: the VM is missing a âcondenserâ that cleans up half allocated pages. > Is the 'release cleanup' done on this image each time ? Yes. Marcus

Feb. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] 17240 Spur, when saving an image, it never shrinks

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 16 Feb 2017, at 16:16, denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > No, > > Our image is not 47 MBâ¦ more like 28. > > My understanding is: > -> Cog works with âpagesâ (is that the term?) of memory. > -> if a page is empty, it gets cleaned up and does not cost space when saving. > -> if there is some object still allocated, the whole page will be saved (partly empty) > > Not sure if that is completely right, but it explains why the image with > lots of objects allocated new can shrink again, while the 47MB never shrinks, even though the > image for sure is much smaller. > > => what is missing is a âcleanupâ phase that sweeps together all the half-empty pages. > > What is fun is that we now ship a 47MB image and nobody ever complains. (or even asks) Yeah, that proves it is not such a big deal, today. But still, we have to fix this discrepancy between 28 and 47. Is the 'release cleanup' done on this image each time ? > Marcus > >> On 16 Feb 2017, at 16:07, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> What Ben says that he thinks it might already be solved. >> >> Maybe not on all platforms. >> >>> On 16 Feb 2017, at 15:59, denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>> Yes, this has to be solved on the VM level and will be read when it is ready. >>> The release should bot be hold up due to this, therefore I removed the milestone. >>> >>>> On 16 Feb 2017, at 15:50, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> @Marcus, I was reviewing this issue before I noticed you flipped the >>>> milestone from Pharo 6.0 to Later. >>>> >>>> But is it solved already? >>>> In a fresh image 47.7MB in size >>>> I did the following a bunch of times to grow the image file to 400MB >>>> o ifNil: [o := OrderedCollection new]. >>>> 100 timesRepeat: [ o add: (Array new: 100000) ]. >>>> Smalltalk saveSession >>>> >>>> then I did this >>>> o := nil. >>>> Smalltalk saveSession. >>>> >>>> and the image file returned to 47.7MB. >>>> >>>> Version info... >>>> Linux Debian 8 Jessie 32-bit >>>> Latest update: #60391 >>>> CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: >>>> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 >>>> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: >>>> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 >>>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: >>>> b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 >>>> +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #589 >>>> >>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17240/Spur-When-saving-an-image-it-never-… >>>> >>>> cheers -ben >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Feb. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Association: Join or Renew now!

by denker

> On 16 Feb 2017, at 16:10, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 03:17:42PM +0100, Marcus Denker wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The new Pharo Association website is up and running for some month. >> >> If you are a member, it will bug you once a year to renew. > > Maybe there should be information that the membership (and fee) is automatic due to contributing to the pharo salt or bounty program (or whatever it is called). I also assume that that will automatically update the membership when the due time comes. Yes, there is a hidden field with that info. At the start of the year I prolongated everyone after checking that the info is still valid. Salt is not well done, though. Eg. there is *no* way to get notified about new sponsors, and they do not anwer *any* support requests. e.g. changing the description of a level is impossible, basic things like that. (even though we pay 10% of all income for itâ¦) Marcus

Feb. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] 17240 Spur, when saving an image, it never shrinks

by denker

No, Our image is not 47 MBâ¦ more like 28. My understanding is: -> Cog works with âpagesâ (is that the term?) of memory. -> if a page is empty, it gets cleaned up and does not cost space when saving. -> if there is some object still allocated, the whole page will be saved (partly empty) Not sure if that is completely right, but it explains why the image with lots of objects allocated new can shrink again, while the 47MB never shrinks, even though the image for sure is much smaller. => what is missing is a âcleanupâ phase that sweeps together all the half-empty pages. What is fun is that we now ship a 47MB image and nobody ever complains. (or even asks) Marcus > On 16 Feb 2017, at 16:07, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > What Ben says that he thinks it might already be solved. > > Maybe not on all platforms. > >> On 16 Feb 2017, at 15:59, denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> Yes, this has to be solved on the VM level and will be read when it is ready. >> The release should bot be hold up due to this, therefore I removed the milestone. >> >>> On 16 Feb 2017, at 15:50, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >>> >>> @Marcus, I was reviewing this issue before I noticed you flipped the >>> milestone from Pharo 6.0 to Later. >>> >>> But is it solved already? >>> In a fresh image 47.7MB in size >>> I did the following a bunch of times to grow the image file to 400MB >>> o ifNil: [o := OrderedCollection new]. >>> 100 timesRepeat: [ o add: (Array new: 100000) ]. >>> Smalltalk saveSession >>> >>> then I did this >>> o := nil. >>> Smalltalk saveSession. >>> >>> and the image file returned to 47.7MB. >>> >>> Version info... >>> Linux Debian 8 Jessie 32-bit >>> Latest update: #60391 >>> CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: >>> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 >>> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: >>> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 >>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: >>> b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 >>> +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #589 >>> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17240/Spur-When-saving-an-image-it-never-… >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >> >> > >

Feb. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Association: Join or Renew now!

by Peter Uhnak

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 03:17:42PM +0100, Marcus Denker wrote: > Hi, > > The new Pharo Association website is up and running for some month. > > If you are a member, it will bug you once a year to renew. Maybe there should be information that the membership (and fee) is automatic due to contributing to the pharo salt or bounty program (or whatever it is called). I also assume that that will automatically update the membership when the due time comes. Peter > > If you were a member in the past and have not been bugged by the system to renew until now, > please subscribe now as a new member. > > (We added all active members, but as the old system was purely manual, people did not get > asked to renew very consistently and you might not be in the system anymore) > > See the website for more information: > > https://association.pharo.org <https://association.pharo.org/> > > > Marcus

Feb. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] 17240 Spur, when saving an image, it never shrinks

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

What Ben says that he thinks it might already be solved. Maybe not on all platforms. > On 16 Feb 2017, at 15:59, denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Yes, this has to be solved on the VM level and will be read when it is ready. > The release should bot be hold up due to this, therefore I removed the milestone. > >> On 16 Feb 2017, at 15:50, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> >> @Marcus, I was reviewing this issue before I noticed you flipped the >> milestone from Pharo 6.0 to Later. >> >> But is it solved already? >> In a fresh image 47.7MB in size >> I did the following a bunch of times to grow the image file to 400MB >> o ifNil: [o := OrderedCollection new]. >> 100 timesRepeat: [ o add: (Array new: 100000) ]. >> Smalltalk saveSession >> >> then I did this >> o := nil. >> Smalltalk saveSession. >> >> and the image file returned to 47.7MB. >> >> Version info... >> Linux Debian 8 Jessie 32-bit >> Latest update: #60391 >> CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: >> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 >> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: >> d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 >> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: >> b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 >> +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #589 >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17240/Spur-When-saving-an-image-it-never-… >> >> cheers -ben >> > >

Feb. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] 17240 Spur, when saving an image, it never shrinks

by denker

Yes, this has to be solved on the VM level and will be read when it is ready. The release should bot be hold up due to this, therefore I removed the milestone. > On 16 Feb 2017, at 15:50, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > @Marcus, I was reviewing this issue before I noticed you flipped the > milestone from Pharo 6.0 to Later. > > But is it solved already? > In a fresh image 47.7MB in size > I did the following a bunch of times to grow the image file to 400MB > o ifNil: [o := OrderedCollection new]. > 100 timesRepeat: [ o add: (Array new: 100000) ]. > Smalltalk saveSession > > then I did this > o := nil. > Smalltalk saveSession. > > and the image file returned to 47.7MB. > > Version info... > Linux Debian 8 Jessie 32-bit > Latest update: #60391 > CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: > d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 > StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: > d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: > b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 > +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #589 > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17240/Spur-When-saving-an-image-it-never-… > > cheers -ben >

Feb. 16, 2017

17240 Spur, when saving an image, it never shrinks

by Ben Coman

@Marcus, I was reviewing this issue before I noticed you flipped the milestone from Pharo 6.0 to Later. But is it solved already? In a fresh image 47.7MB in size I did the following a bunch of times to grow the image file to 400MB o ifNil: [o := OrderedCollection new]. 100 timesRepeat: [ o add: (Array new: 100000) ]. Smalltalk saveSession then I did this o := nil. Smalltalk saveSession. and the image file returned to 47.7MB. Version info... Linux Debian 8 Jessie 32-bit Latest update: #60391 CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.1855 uuid: d8e4a3c2-a3bf-4adc-b224-8012903a1ef4 May 4 2016 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: b8ec25a570d7539653e1d793e97609adb509aaed Date: 2016-05-04 11:14:22 +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #589 https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17240/Spur-When-saving-an-image-it-never-… cheers -ben

Feb. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Association: Join or Renew now!

by denker

> On 16 Feb 2017, at 14:06, denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >> On 16 Feb 2017, at 10:43, denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Yes, we are planning to extend the profiles to have space for >> -> website > > I have added a field for the website. > I have added more fields. Members can edit them as part of the membership tab. by default the information is visible to other members, but can be made public (in the profile settings). This is my member details page after changing the fields to be public: https://association.pharo.org/Sys/PublicProfile/35401077/4061835 <https://association.pharo.org/Sys/PublicProfile/35401077/4061835> Marcus

Feb. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] 2 seconds default time limit for tests

by Denis Kudriashov

2017-02-16 14:59 GMT+01:00 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com>: > But this could conceivably cause more erroneous failures by the CI > monkey, which slows down progress up to the Release. > I would not wrote this mail without Monkey :). With "2 seconds" Monkey was happy. > > +1 for doing it after the Release. > > Now what would be interesting (though maybe not feasible) would be > recording how long each test takes, maybe sending to a central server, > to do maybe do statistics on them. Maybe faster running tests could > be scheduled first. Or we may find some tests have multiple modes to > optimise. Or which tests fail the timeout more often - to help set > the timeout. Perhaps the timeout needs to scale for different > environments - like running of a RPi rather than a beast desktop. > It can be improved later. Now we do not have CI for RPi.

Feb. 16, 2017