December 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

by Hilaire

I don't understand your question Le 25/12/2017 Ã 15:57, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©critÂ : >> C. Develop a white board application, easy to extend to add third party >> features. The OpenBoard[2] we are using in school are merely goods (can't >> get the right tooling to do geometry for example), handwriting is not nice, >> hacking on it is super complicated (C++ code), not to mention the building >> process. A Pharo based one will be fantastic and much easy to hack. > Is Pharo running on this? -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Dec. 25, 2017

Simple game framework

by Hilaire

You may have different kind of games; for example in 2D games, it could be fixed frame, side scrolling, up scrolling, isometric, etc. To get it started easily, it could come with graphic and audio banks. I really don't have much idea how such a general system should be designed. Only wrote once a commercial decades ago on ARM code. Will look a the bloc tutorial for game[1] [1] https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Tutorials/ Le 25/12/2017 Ã 15:57, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©critÂ : >> B. Build an environment in Pharo to develop simple games, targeted for kids. >> There are some teenagers in my school likely to get interested on such >> courses. If it could result in standalone games build thanks to wish 4., so >> good. > I'm interested into that this is why I proposed to "laura" > maximilliano to work on such framework. > Now I never got the time to do a pass over it and to release what I learned. > - direction > - handling on moves. > - I created a grid data structure but this is the least interesting part. > > If you want we can discuss what I learned. > Also students in Prague are building games on top of Bloc. > > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Dec. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

by Evan Donahue

Given the recent stirrings of AI-related applications in Pharo, I guess I'm wishing for vm support for vector operations/fast math. I heard something about that a while ago on the polymath chanel, so I figure it can't hurt to wish. Evan -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Dec. 25, 2017

Building an application with P7

by Hilaire

Let's discuss it in another thread. Until now, I moved slowly to update the drgeo build script to adjust to Tonel file repository and P7; mostly done now. Will now look for help from Pavel to build the drgeo image from a tiny core. About the other problems to get a user ready drgeo application based on the forthcoming P7: - set up an application 64bits VMs architecture for Linux, OS X and Windows (aka one-click image). I understand the later may be a problem as there is not yet 64bits VMs. - get over the strange oddities appearing with P7, long and tedious but mandatory; otherwise this sets back drgeo as an end user (student, teacher)Â will immediately run away if drgeo is unpredictable. It really took me a long time to get drgeo right on P3 because these oddities only show up at runtime, under specific scenario. There are easy to fix, thought. Writing more tests should help too. Hilaire Le 25/12/2017 Ã 15:57, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©critÂ : >> 5. fulfill the promise of tiny image, aka bootstrap and 4. > Did you see that pavel produced a smaller image than the first > bootstrapped version > >> All these wishes are under construction, so likely to happen \o/ >> >> >> I have personal three wishes (beside good health of course), sharing it in >> case others are interested to hack on it too: >> >> A. get DrGeo working on P7, particularly on the bootstrap process. > Let us know the problem you face because this is important that you can. > > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Dec. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

by Hilaire

I really don't mean a GUI builder :-) Le 25/12/2017 Ã 15:57, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©critÂ : >> 4. application builder. Smalltalk/X has a GUI to build a standalone >> application, was not able to get it working, but it probably worked at some >> time in the past (see screenshot). Such a feature in Pharo will be >> fantastic, and likely a kill feature for the ones developing stand alone >> application; yes there are still some;-) > We would like the same. Now spec was an increment in that direction > because behind the UI builder you need to reuse the model. So > with a pass on spec we will be set to be able to build the builder part > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Dec. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

by Hilaire

In case of, at wish 4. I did not write a GUI builder but really an application builder: a tool to let you build up the image and the needed VMs, and pack it appropriately for the end user. As it is manually done for Dr.Geo. Le 25/12/2017 Ã 14:17, Torsten Bergmann a Ã©critÂ : > A GUI builder is always a nice thing ... and there already was an attempt > for Pharo: -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Dec. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to restore image upgrade? was New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

by Stephane Ducasse

Nicolas We want to keep the live part of Pharo and incremental loading and it is key for us. Now we should not be naive. Most of the time we do not have the garantee that a change will work when loaded. We proposed Pablo to work since two years on a really working dynamic code loader and Pablo has really nice results. But it takes time to evaluate if/how we integrate its changes. Pablo has an atomic coder loader and an incremental and modular class builder. He also designed a modular shutdown/startup list manager (in production). We want to be able to have a **real** and robust incremental load. Right now as you know it and as in ANY smalltalk I can break the system super easily. There is no magic. I do not see how we can make sure that any piece of code will be loaded and do not break the system. So our objective is to have a new infrastructure that we can updates (like method hashes for example without having to twists our mind and do five updates). Now about git, we want and we will have our lovely image as a working directory but this requires engineering because the image is another artefact that other languages do not have to worry. We will get there. Stef On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 11:41 PM, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2017-12-24 2:59 GMT+01:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>: >> >> My four wishes, in no particular order: >> - Better code completion >> - Git in Pharo as easy as using Git for other languages > > The recipe is easy: turn pharo into a file based edit-compile-run language > and expunge those live object burden ;) > Let me explain why it's not just trolling. > Currently we have to download an image made by a bot. > Pharo has gradually lost the power to upgrade the image (it's not new). > > If we recognize that an image acts like a workspace, and want to let the > pull/branch switch/etc work again... > IOW going from one point to any other in source code graph > and experience the full power of git like any other language, > that means, in a live IDE, at least solving those two problems: > - changing the tools that are used to upgrade the image (Compiler, > MethodDictionary, Array, etc...) > - correctly initialize all the states (including stange loops) > If pharo has not managed to solve this with a linear one way history (the > regularly broken update image option), > how do you think this is going to be solved in the more general case? > I call this the universal boostrap problem. > > IMO the logical next step is to separate the IDE > (the Inanimate Desintegrated Environment of any other language). > > Maybe we don't have to bend Pharo too much to git if it does not fit. > The goal: as easy might be not that easy. > > >> - Bloc on Steroid >> - Being able to interrupt any process and endless loop using Cmd-. >> >> Merry Christmas to all of you! >> Alexandre >> >> >> >> > On Dec 23, 2017, at 1:58 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Hi everybody, >> > >> > This looks like a good moment of the year to ask all of you what would >> > you want to see in Pharo next year. >> > Features, improvements, radical changes, etcâ¦. whatever you want. >> > >> > Of course, this list will not be a roadmap and it does not means we will >> > implement all of it (as always, time drives our possibilities), but is a >> > good moment for us a a community to check where we are and where we wan to >> > go next :) >> > >> > So, letâs those wishes come! >> > >> > cheers, >> > Esteban >> >> >

Dec. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

by Stephane Ducasse

About the application builder we will continue to work on the effort and lamrc is interested to show that we can build real applications with Pharo. So I really hope that something will happen this year. Stef On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> A GUI builder is always a nice thing ... and there already was an attempt >> for Pharo: >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/UIBuilder/ >> >> Now marked as "Failed attempt of develop a UI builder for Pharo-Smalltalk. That version >> only works in Pharo 1.1. Is opened for any developer.". >> >> Dont know why it failed ... maybe because the UI (especially with Morphic legacy) >> is still too shaky are in Pharo. > > The developer stopped when he saw that he could not build a excel like grid. > I tried to rescue its effort but it was too large to recover. > > >> But I guess the order will be/needs to be: >> >> - good and stable graphics framework (maybe solved with Bloc) >> - good and stable standardized widget set (maybe solved with Brick) >> - then place a UI builder on top of it >> >> Bye >> T. >> >>> Gesendet: Montag, 25. Dezember 2017 um 12:33 Uhr >>> Von: Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> >>> An: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org >>> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ? >>> >>> Oh, you asked for that Esteban :) >>> >>> 1. stability >>> >>> 2. Tonel is a nice way to export file (its granularity is just right, >>> bravo Esteban!) and commit to arbitrary repository, experimenting it >>> with DrGeo, and it is nice to commit code[1] along other data files of >>> the project (graphics, doc, translation, etc.). Got some an when non >>> ascii characters were present in the source code, people reported it >>> there. Likely to be fixed :) >>> >>> 3. vectorial interface, oh already on its way >>> >>> 4. application builder. Smalltalk/X has a GUI to build a standalone >>> application, was not able to get it working, but it probably worked at >>> some time in the past (see screenshot). Such a feature in Pharo will be >>> fantastic, and likely a kill feature for the ones developing stand alone >>> application; yes there are still some ;-) >>> >>> 5. fulfill the promise of tiny image, aka bootstrap and 4. >>> >>> All these wishes are under construction, so likely to happen \o/ >>> >>> >>> I have personal three wishes (beside good health of course), sharing it >>> in case others are interested to hack on it too: >>> >>> A. get DrGeo working on P7, particularly on the bootstrap process. >>> >>> B. Build an environment in Pharo to develop simple games, targeted for >>> kids. There are some teenagers in my school likely to get interested on >>> such courses. If it could result in standalone games build thanks to >>> wish 4., so good. >>> >>> C. Develop a white board application, easy to extend to add third party >>> features. The OpenBoard[2] we are using in school are merely goods >>> (can't get the right tooling to do geometry for example), handwriting is >>> not nice, hacking on it is super complicated (C++ code), not to mention >>> the building process. A Pharo based one will be fantastic and much easy >>> to hack. >>> >>> >>> Have a nice Christmas! >>> >>> >>> [1] >>> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~drgeo-developers/drgeo/trunk/files/head:/src/ >>> [2] http://openboard.ch >>> >>> Le 23/12/2017 Ã 17:58, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >>> > So, letâs those wishes come! >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Geo >>> http://drgeo.eu >>> >>> >>

Dec. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

by Stephane Ducasse

On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > A GUI builder is always a nice thing ... and there already was an attempt > for Pharo: > > http://www.squeaksource.com/UIBuilder/ > > Now marked as "Failed attempt of develop a UI builder for Pharo-Smalltalk. That version > only works in Pharo 1.1. Is opened for any developer.". > > Dont know why it failed ... maybe because the UI (especially with Morphic legacy) > is still too shaky are in Pharo. The developer stopped when he saw that he could not build a excel like grid. I tried to rescue its effort but it was too large to recover. > But I guess the order will be/needs to be: > > - good and stable graphics framework (maybe solved with Bloc) > - good and stable standardized widget set (maybe solved with Brick) > - then place a UI builder on top of it > > Bye > T. > >> Gesendet: Montag, 25. Dezember 2017 um 12:33 Uhr >> Von: Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> >> An: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org >> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ? >> >> Oh, you asked for that Esteban :) >> >> 1. stability >> >> 2. Tonel is a nice way to export file (its granularity is just right, >> bravo Esteban!) and commit to arbitrary repository, experimenting it >> with DrGeo, and it is nice to commit code[1] along other data files of >> the project (graphics, doc, translation, etc.). Got some an when non >> ascii characters were present in the source code, people reported it >> there. Likely to be fixed :) >> >> 3. vectorial interface, oh already on its way >> >> 4. application builder. Smalltalk/X has a GUI to build a standalone >> application, was not able to get it working, but it probably worked at >> some time in the past (see screenshot). Such a feature in Pharo will be >> fantastic, and likely a kill feature for the ones developing stand alone >> application; yes there are still some ;-) >> >> 5. fulfill the promise of tiny image, aka bootstrap and 4. >> >> All these wishes are under construction, so likely to happen \o/ >> >> >> I have personal three wishes (beside good health of course), sharing it >> in case others are interested to hack on it too: >> >> A. get DrGeo working on P7, particularly on the bootstrap process. >> >> B. Build an environment in Pharo to develop simple games, targeted for >> kids. There are some teenagers in my school likely to get interested on >> such courses. If it could result in standalone games build thanks to >> wish 4., so good. >> >> C. Develop a white board application, easy to extend to add third party >> features. The OpenBoard[2] we are using in school are merely goods >> (can't get the right tooling to do geometry for example), handwriting is >> not nice, hacking on it is super complicated (C++ code), not to mention >> the building process. A Pharo based one will be fantastic and much easy >> to hack. >> >> >> Have a nice Christmas! >> >> >> [1] >> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~drgeo-developers/drgeo/trunk/files/head:/src/ >> [2] http://openboard.ch >> >> Le 23/12/2017 Ã 17:58, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> > So, letâs those wishes come! >> >> -- >> Dr. Geo >> http://drgeo.eu >> >> >

Dec. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

by Stephane Ducasse

> 1. stability > > 2. Tonel is a nice way to export file (its granularity is just right, bravo > Esteban!) and commit to arbitrary repository, experimenting it with DrGeo, > and it is nice to commit code[1] along other data files of the project > (graphics, doc, translation, etc.). Got some an when non ascii characters > were present in the source code, people reported it there. Likely to be > fixed :) > > 3. vectorial interface, oh already on its way > > 4. application builder. Smalltalk/X has a GUI to build a standalone > application, was not able to get it working, but it probably worked at some > time in the past (see screenshot). Such a feature in Pharo will be > fantastic, and likely a kill feature for the ones developing stand alone > application; yes there are still some ;-) We would like the same. Now spec was an increment in that direction because behind the UI builder you need to reuse the model. So with a pass on spec we will be set to be able to build the builder part > 5. fulfill the promise of tiny image, aka bootstrap and 4. Did you see that pavel produced a smaller image than the first bootstrapped version > > All these wishes are under construction, so likely to happen \o/ > > > I have personal three wishes (beside good health of course), sharing it in > case others are interested to hack on it too: > > A. get DrGeo working on P7, particularly on the bootstrap process. Let us know the problem you face because this is important that you can. > B. Build an environment in Pharo to develop simple games, targeted for kids. > There are some teenagers in my school likely to get interested on such > courses. If it could result in standalone games build thanks to wish 4., so > good. I'm interested into that this is why I proposed to "laura" maximilliano to work on such framework. Now I never got the time to do a pass over it and to release what I learned. - direction - handling on moves. - I created a grid data structure but this is the least interesting part. If you want we can discuss what I learned. Also students in Prague are building games on top of Bloc. > C. Develop a white board application, easy to extend to add third party > features. The OpenBoard[2] we are using in school are merely goods (can't > get the right tooling to do geometry for example), handwriting is not nice, > hacking on it is super complicated (C++ code), not to mention the building > process. A Pharo based one will be fantastic and much easy to hack. Is Pharo running on this? > > > Have a nice Christmas! > > > [1] > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~drgeo-developers/drgeo/trunk/files/head:/src/ > [2] http://openboard.ch > > > Le 23/12/2017 Ã 17:58, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> >> So, letâs those wishes come! > > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu >

Dec. 25, 2017