October 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Nicolai Hess

Am 25.10.2017 10:50 PM schrieb "Torsten Bergmann" <astares(a)gmx.de>: Hi, there might be reasons for an own 2D vector class (instead of using Point). But still I dislike the reimplementation of "," because for me so far it has the meaning of "concatenating things". Like concatenating coordinates :-) Here you redefine it to create vector instances and it works only up to three so far. Right? I understand that this gives some similarities with the math notation (1,2) but I personally would prefer to use: 1@2 asVector or Vector2D x: 1 y: 2 Thx T. > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Oktober 2017 um 20:06 Uhr > Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation > > Hi, > > As mentioned in the separate thread, we played with introducing the extension: > > , aNumber > ^ BlVector2D x: self y: aNumber > > This means that (10,20) will return a 2D vector. > > We also have (10,20,30) which returns a 3D vector. > > , is used for different meanings already in the image beside the collection concatenation. For example, in FileReference is adds a file extension. And Exceptions create a collection. In other packages, PetitParser uses it as a sequence operator. > > Please voice your concerns. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Every thing should have the right to be different." > > > > > >

Oct. 26, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by henry

I would note that 1 ! 2 creates/extends an ETuple in eLinda. - HH On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 16:53, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In Polymath I guess that the vectors are longer. But if I'm correct it is #( 12 23) asVector. Doru did you look at Jun because Jun introduced 3DPoint and I wonder if they did not introduce Vector? What would be the alternatives for vector? Any idea how this is done in other languages 1~>2 1!2 1-}2 Stef On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > Vector is not Bloc-sepcific. We just need it in Bloc and because there wasnât any, we now have one in Bloc. But, it can be pulled out without any issues. > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Oct 25, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: >> >> For example, in FileReference is adds a file extension. PetitParser uses it as a sequence operator. >> >> But in both cases #, is sent to FileReference/Petit parser instance, so it is contained. >> You would use it on a (generic) Number and tie it to specific Bloc meaning. Maybe have a polymorphic Vector in regular Pharo (I would imagine that PolyMath could also make use of that)? >> >> Peter > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Obvious things are difficult to teach." > > > > > @gmail.com> @tudorgirba.com>

Oct. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] feenk log

by Sean P. DeNigris

Tudor Girba-2 wrote > We now have BlScalableElement which handles the zooming Gotcha. So an entire "World" (I'm assuming that's a Bloc Space?) can be zoomed in and out? ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Oct. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Denis Kudriashov

2017-10-25 22:53 GMT+02:00 Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > In Polymath I guess that the vectors are longer. But if I'm correct it > is #( 12 23) asVector. > And I am wondering, Polymath already implements linear algebra. Right? Can we just use it in Bloc? > > Doru did you look at Jun because Jun introduced 3DPoint and I wonder > if they did not introduce Vector? > > What would be the alternatives for vector? > Any idea how this is done in other languages > > 1~>2 > 1!2 > 1-}2 > > Stef > > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Vector is not Bloc-sepcific. We just need it in Bloc and because there > wasnât any, we now have one in Bloc. But, it can be pulled out without any > issues. > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > >> On Oct 25, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> For example, in FileReference is adds a file extension. PetitParser > uses it as a sequence operator. > >> > >> But in both cases #, is sent to FileReference/Petit parser instance, so > it is contained. > >> You would use it on a (generic) Number and tie it to specific Bloc > meaning. Maybe have a polymorphic Vector in regular Pharo (I would imagine > that PolyMath could also make use of that)? > >> > >> Peter > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "Obvious things are difficult to teach." > > > > > > > > > > > >

Oct. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] feenk log

by Stephane Ducasse

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > In this email I will enumerate what features are missing that we are aware > of. The problem is that we discover what we need spontaneously during > experiments and not beforehand :) Yes for the extras problems but you always have an idea of the base. > > Missing / broken > - error handling library. If there is an exception during event handling or > rendering, Bloc's UI thread stops and we have to reset the universe. I was wondering if the use of on:fork: would not help there. > Sometimes errors cause "infinite" spawn of debuggers. > - transformations (scale, translate, rotate) animations don't work now, > because I still need to finish interpolation of matrix decomposition. > - there is a bug with drawing invalidation when element has rotation > transformation. > - gradient backgrounds can only have fixed size (origin/corner) and can not > scale according to element's size. > - event propagation mechanism should be implemented on top of Announcer and > not using our custom one (there was a discussion about this on dev mailing > list) Ok you mean what glenn did. Ok sounds good. For me I would like to have less concepts or similar libraries. > - Sparta/Cairo backend has not implemented fill path with image pattern API > method > - FFI Callbacks crash VM on windows (I have my own FFI-only tests that > fail) > - FFI external array can not handle booleans: > > array := FFIExternalArray externalNewType: 'bool' size: 1. array at: 1 put: > true. array at: 1 "false" > > More minor issues can be found on Bloc's github page > https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/issues > > That is all from my side :) Ok so this is reasonable. I would add for version 1.0 Nice class comments > Cheers, > Alex > > On 25 October 2017 at 18:48, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Denis, >> >> The reason for BlVector2D is that we also have BlVector3D. >> In case of translation a Point (x@y) should be converted to (x,y,0). For >> scale it is converted as (x,y,1). You see, the same Point object has >> different meanings when it comes to different transformations. >> >> Additionally, Point does not represent the intent correctly because all >> affine transformations involve vectors. Of course, we made Vectors >> polymorphic with points, so users can write: >> element translateBy: (20@20) instead of element translateBy: (BlVector x: >> 20 y: 20). >> >>> - How often this vector will be constructed by hands in user code? It is >>> related to my question about comma message: is it really needed? >> >> >> In lineare algebra vectors are represented as (x, y, z). Beautiful! >> >> Cheers, >> Alex > >

Oct. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] feenk log

by Stephane Ducasse

Ok :) Stef On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > The log is not a replacement of the roadmap. It is only to help people see what we do live. > > The roadmap and documentation are coming as well, but these are separate. > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Doru having a few tweets is nice but I do not think that you >> communicate well around bloc. >> >> What I would like to get is a roadmap for Bloc V1.0. >> - Here are the missing features (documentation), >> - Here are where we are. >> Because else it feels like Bloc will never ends. >> You will argue and tell me that you experiments. But without a feature >> list then >> people cannot join and do not know when you get a 1.0. >> >> Not measuring is the best way to arrive to a point where you did not wanted. >> >> You see for Brick we need >> Button >> CheckBox >> DropList >> List >> Table >> Pane >> InputField >> Text >> Scrollbar >> Menu >> And with that we can get a first Widget set. >> But again without a roadmap I have some doubts. >> >> Stef >> >> >> Stef >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Stephane Ducasse >> <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Doru using comma for creating vectors is not really because it will >>> just make the life of type inferencers more difficult. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Our team is working on a couple of projects that are relevant for the core of Pharo, namely GT and Bloc/Brick. At ESUG we were asked by several people, and Stef in particular, to make the progress on these projects more transparent. To this end, we will start two streams of signals: >>>> - fine grained info bits on out Twitter account (several times a week): https://twitter.com/feenkcom >>>> - a less often but regular (probably every 2 weeks) activity log message sent to this mailing list >>>> >>>> Please let us know if you see an issue with this. >>>> >>>> In the meantime, letâs start. >>>> >>>> Bloc: >>>> - Over the past couple of weeks Alex worked on transformations and measurements in the core system. It turns out that there was room for quite a number of performance optimizations and for making the system more debuggable. >>>> - At the low level, this involved adding matrix and vector support. >>>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/923123870537863168 >>>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/916300180848349185 >>>> - At a higher level, it implies keeping track of measurements >>>> https://twitter.com/AliakseiSyrel/status/915203525931622400 >>>> - And of transformations: >>>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/919603739656417281 >>>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/917116164484096001 >>>> - The BlScalableElement is now working properly >>>> >>>> GT Examples: >>>> - The current repository with unary-based examples is at: https://github.com/feenkcom/gtoolkit-examples >>>> - We now have a runner in the inspector that allows us to both see the source code and run and play with the resulting object: >>>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/923210686204989442 >>>> - Andrei made the âafterâ behavior to work with unary examples. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> The feenk team >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> www.feenk.com >>>> >>>> "Being happy is a matter of choice." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "What we can governs what we wish." > > > > >

Oct. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation

by Stephane Ducasse

In Polymath I guess that the vectors are longer. But if I'm correct it is #( 12 23) asVector. Doru did you look at Jun because Jun introduced 3DPoint and I wonder if they did not introduce Vector? What would be the alternatives for vector? Any idea how this is done in other languages 1~>2 1!2 1-}2 Stef On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Vector is not Bloc-sepcific. We just need it in Bloc and because there wasnât any, we now have one in Bloc. But, it can be pulled out without any issues. > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Oct 25, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> For example, in FileReference is adds a file extension. PetitParser uses it as a sequence operator. >> >> But in both cases #, is sent to FileReference/Petit parser instance, so it is contained. >> You would use it on a (generic) Number and tie it to specific Bloc meaning. Maybe have a polymorphic Vector in regular Pharo (I would imagine that PolyMath could also make use of that)? >> >> Peter > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Obvious things are difficult to teach." > > > > >

Oct. 25, 2017

, for vector creation

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi, there might be reasons for an own 2D vector class (instead of using Point). But still I dislike the reimplementation of "," because for me so far it has the meaning of "concatenating things". Here you redefine it to create vector instances and it works only up to three so far. Right? I understand that this gives some similarities with the math notation (1,2) but I personally would prefer to use: 1@2 asVector or Vector2D x: 1 y: 2 Thx T. > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Oktober 2017 um 20:06 Uhr > Von: "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] , for vector creation > > Hi, > > As mentioned in the separate thread, we played with introducing the extension: > > , aNumber > ^ BlVector2D x: self y: aNumber > > This means that (10,20) will return a 2D vector. > > We also have (10,20,30) which returns a 3D vector. > > , is used for different meanings already in the image beside the collection concatenation. For example, in FileReference is adds a file extension. And Exceptions create a collection. In other packages, PetitParser uses it as a sequence operator. > > Please voice your concerns. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Every thing should have the right to be different." > > > > > >

Oct. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] feenk log

by Denis Kudriashov

2017-10-25 22:00 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi, > > > On Oct 25, 2017, at 8:11 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > wrote: > > > > Denis Kudriashov wrote > >> Good initiative. > > > > +1 :) > > > > > > Denis Kudriashov wrote > >> Here is my twitter questions:â¦ > > > > Mine are: > > 1. Is it possible/easy/smooth to zoom in/out? > > We now have BlScalableElement which handles the zooming. The next thing is > to attach animations to it. > I expected that any element can be scalable because transformation is part of it. Am I wrong?. Then what the purpose of this subclass? Is it for convenience or there is some important logic inside? > > > 2. Is there an equivalent to Morphic-stepping? > > Yes, but this is achieved by attaching an animation to the element. > > However, right now, due to changes in transformations, animations are not > working. They should be back soon. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > > > > ----- > > Cheers, > > Sean > > -- > > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837. > html > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > >

Oct. 25, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] feenk log

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > On Oct 25, 2017, at 8:11 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Denis Kudriashov wrote >> Good initiative. > > +1 :) > > > Denis Kudriashov wrote >> Here is my twitter questions:â¦ > > Mine are: > 1. Is it possible/easy/smooth to zoom in/out? We now have BlScalableElement which handles the zooming. The next thing is to attach animations to it. > 2. Is there an equivalent to Morphic-stepping? Yes, but this is achieved by attaching an animation to the element. However, right now, due to changes in transformations, animations are not working. They should be back soon. Cheers, Doru > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

Oct. 25, 2017