August 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] About the non-use of Announcer in Bloc

by stepharo

Thanks Glenn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Hi all, > Doru, Stephan, Norbert, Denis and me spoke at ESUG about the non-use of > Announcer in Bloc. > I made some test cases in Bloc-Tests to compare performances between > Announcer and BlEventRegistry. > The result is that Announcer is at least 5x slower in all tested cases. > Bloc has only specific needs about event dispatching, the first one is the > efficiency during event propagation. > It may be interesting to investigate why Announcer is slower and also what > are the uncovered cases in BlEventRegistry. > So, i'm interested in continuing our discussion about that. > > Regards, > Glenn. > > > > ----- > Glenn CavarlÃ© > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-the-non-use-of-Announcer-in-Bloc-tp4913008.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About the non-use of Announcer in Bloc

by Denis Kudriashov

And now question is why SubscriptionRegistry manages subscriptions as IdentitySet instead of OrderedCollection? 2016-08-29 18:36 GMT+02:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > And expenses to deliver announcement caused also by protection and usage > of IdentitySet. > Also in announcements we first collect all subscriptions with interest to > separate collection and only after we iterate and process given > announcement. > > But in Bloc you use #select:thenDo: method instead. It is unsafe because > event handlers can be modified during delivering (by producing new > subscriptions or by unsubscribing inside handlers). > > So if you want to address it (and I sure you do) it will lead to same code > and performance of announcements. > > > > > 2016-08-29 18:05 GMT+02:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > >> Thank's. >> I try tests for subscribing and what I found is: >> >> Main problem that subscriptions inside SubscriptionRegistry are managed >> as IdentitySet which of cause much slower for addition then >> OrderedCollection. We probably could use OrderedCollection here because >> items are always created on fly and identitySet has no sense. >> >> Another problem is access protection by mutex (semaphore) which make it 3 >> times slower. >> >> So with OrderedCollection and disabled mutex performance for subscribing >> is same. >> >> I pretty sure that protection is required for Block handlers too. >> >> 2016-08-29 17:18 GMT+02:00 Glenn CavarlÃ© <glenn.cavarle(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Ha... tag doesn't work... >>> >>> You can load Bloc and show the tests using this script: >>> Gofer it >>> smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc'; >>> configuration; >>> loadDevelopment. >>> Gofer it >>> smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc'; >>> package: 'Bloc-Tests'; >>> load. >>> BlAnnouncerVsBlEventRegistryTest browse >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Glenn CavarlÃ© >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-th >>> e-non-use-of-Announcer-in-Bloc-tp4913008p4913088.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>> Nabble.com. >>> >>> >> >

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About the non-use of Announcer in Bloc

by Denis Kudriashov

And expenses to deliver announcement caused also by protection and usage of IdentitySet. Also in announcements we first collect all subscriptions with interest to separate collection and only after we iterate and process given announcement. But in Bloc you use #select:thenDo: method instead. It is unsafe because event handlers can be modified during delivering (by producing new subscriptions or by unsubscribing inside handlers). So if you want to address it (and I sure you do) it will lead to same code and performance of announcements. 2016-08-29 18:05 GMT+02:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > Thank's. > I try tests for subscribing and what I found is: > > Main problem that subscriptions inside SubscriptionRegistry are managed as > IdentitySet which of cause much slower for addition then OrderedCollection. > We probably could use OrderedCollection here because items are always > created on fly and identitySet has no sense. > > Another problem is access protection by mutex (semaphore) which make it 3 > times slower. > > So with OrderedCollection and disabled mutex performance for subscribing > is same. > > I pretty sure that protection is required for Block handlers too. > > 2016-08-29 17:18 GMT+02:00 Glenn CavarlÃ© <glenn.cavarle(a)gmail.com>: > >> Ha... tag doesn't work... >> >> You can load Bloc and show the tests using this script: >> Gofer it >> smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc'; >> configuration; >> loadDevelopment. >> Gofer it >> smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc'; >> package: 'Bloc-Tests'; >> load. >> BlAnnouncerVsBlEventRegistryTest browse >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> Glenn CavarlÃ© >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-th >> e-non-use-of-Announcer-in-Bloc-tp4913008p4913088.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> >> >

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About the non-use of Announcer in Bloc

by Denis Kudriashov

Thank's. I try tests for subscribing and what I found is: Main problem that subscriptions inside SubscriptionRegistry are managed as IdentitySet which of cause much slower for addition then OrderedCollection. We probably could use OrderedCollection here because items are always created on fly and identitySet has no sense. Another problem is access protection by mutex (semaphore) which make it 3 times slower. So with OrderedCollection and disabled mutex performance for subscribing is same. I pretty sure that protection is required for Block handlers too. 2016-08-29 17:18 GMT+02:00 Glenn CavarlÃ© <glenn.cavarle(a)gmail.com>: > Ha... tag doesn't work... > > You can load Bloc and show the tests using this script: > Gofer it > smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc'; > configuration; > loadDevelopment. > Gofer it > smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc'; > package: 'Bloc-Tests'; > load. > BlAnnouncerVsBlEventRegistryTest browse > > > > > ----- > Glenn CavarlÃ© > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About- > the-non-use-of-Announcer-in-Bloc-tp4913008p4913088.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Binary selector and special characters

by Thierry Goubier

2016-08-29 13:24 GMT+02:00 Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>: > > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 11:42 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Thierry >> >> If you have a better editor control even better :) >> >> >> Syntax wise, one could consider "" to be inside a comment (i.e. do not >> split into two comments if encountered inside a comment, as it is done now). >> >> This one could be nice too :) >> > > This would be also consistent with how single quotes are handled in a > string, which would make it doublenice. :) > Implementing it means looking at how strings are scanned :) Thierry > > Peter >

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Binary selector and special characters

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Stef, 2016-08-29 11:42 GMT+02:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > Thierry > > If you have a better editor control even better :) > > > Syntax wise, one could consider "" to be inside a comment (i.e. do not > split into two comments if encountered inside a comment, as it is done now). > > This one could be nice too :) > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19011/Integrate-two-double-quotes-inside-… I'll have the slice ready soon. Any comments on what that would mean regarding the Smalltalk commonly accepted syntax if that feature is integrated? Thierry

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About the non-use of Announcer in Bloc

by Glenn CavarlÃ©

Ha... tag doesn't work... You can load Bloc and show the tests using this script: Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc'; configuration; loadDevelopment. Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc'; package: 'Bloc-Tests'; load. BlAnnouncerVsBlEventRegistryTest browse ----- Glenn CavarlÃ© -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-the-non-use-of-Announcer-in-Bloc-tp4913008p4913… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About the non-use of Announcer in Bloc

by Tudor Girba

Hi, You can find the current Bloc image here: https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/bloc/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/bloc.zip Cheers, Doru > On Aug 29, 2016, at 5:10 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > And could you write current repository? > > 2016-08-29 16:31 GMT+02:00 Glenn CavarlÃ© <glenn.cavarle(a)gmail.com>: > You can load Bloc and show the tests using this script: > > > > > ----- > Glenn CavarlÃ© > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-the-non-use-of-Announcer-in-Bloc-tp4913008p4913… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "To lead is not to demand things, it is to make them happen."

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] IceBerg and push for projects vs packages

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2016-08-29 9:12 GMT-03:00 Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com>: > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 29 Aug 2016, at 14:04, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Nicolas Passerini >>> <npasserini(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Well, I am not sure if this has to do with Iceberg itself, because Iceberg >>>> does nothing with dependencies. >>>> >>>> But I am not sure that a ConfigurationOfXXX really has information of only >>>> one package. Normally you will have only one configuration for each project, >>>> am I wrong? >>>> Then the configuration specifies (among other stuff) dependencies between >>>> the parts (packages) of your project... I think this is right. >>>> If you depend in another project, then you should not depend in specific >>>> packages but in another configuration. >>> >>> With the Iceberg tool, you can load or unload packages. >>> How it will works if the dependencies are not loaded before ? >> >> AFAIK, this is not iceberg concernâ¦ this is a work for metacello (or cargo). > > Yes you are right, but when you load a package from Iceberg, the > dependencies should be loaded at the same time I guess. No, they shouldn't. Because Iceberg, AFAIU, is for SCM, and Metacello for dependency management. A proper package manager (Cargo?) should coordinate artifacts of both. Esteban A. Maringolo

Aug. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About the non-use of Announcer in Bloc

by Denis Kudriashov

And could you write current repository? 2016-08-29 16:31 GMT+02:00 Glenn CavarlÃ© <glenn.cavarle(a)gmail.com>: > You can load Bloc and show the tests using this script: > > > > > ----- > Glenn CavarlÃ© > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About- > the-non-use-of-Announcer-in-Bloc-tp4913008p4913079.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Aug. 29, 2016