August 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Windows Time millisecondClockValue (system start vs. image start)

by Henrik Nergaard

Hmm. ActiveHand lastEvent â"[(798@340) mouseOver SHIFT nil nil]" ActiveHand instVarNamed: #lastEventBuffer "#(1 148008281 659 126 0 0 1 1)" âTimestamp is there, second elementâ I cannot see that the stamp is ever 0 from a raw event polled, and I guess that will (should) never happen? Ie; in HandMorph >> generateMouseEvent: line 15 âstamp = 0 ifTrue: [ stamp := Time milisecondClockValue ]â is dead/wrong code? So I guess that somewhere along the event dispatching/processing (after he event has been moved from the raw buffer into a MorphicEvent subclass object) things are copied/translated without keeping the original timestamp intact. I found at least two places that causes the timestamp to be lost: MouseEvent >> asMoueMove (sets a new timestamp using Time) MouseEvent >> asMouseOver I think there are two bugs here 1) VM clock can differ from Image clock 2) Translating one event from another do not keep the original timestamp Best regards, Henrik From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Nicolai Hess Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 3:57 PM To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org>; The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Subject: [squeak-dev] Windows Time millisecondClockValue (system start vs. image start) Hi, a call to Time millisecondClockValue gives the current milliseconds since the image started. Did this change ? I have a windows squeak 4.4 VM where it gave the uptime of the system (on windows). Background: HandMorph generates some MouseOver and/or MouseMove events, and if the timeStamp value is not set, it sets it to Time millisecondClockValue, but the "real" events have a time stamp of "milliseconds since system was booted". So, now it can happen that you have a real event (mouse click) at timeStamp (msecs since boot up) 3000000 and afterwards a generated mouseOver event with a time stamp since image startup 2000000 (if the image started ~15 min after system boot). That is, a later event as a lower time stamp. This will disturb the event handling in HandMorph>>#handleEvent: from: Somehow, (after having the image running for a long time ? I don't know). The time stamp for the generated events is allways much bigger than for the system events, and this will make it impossible to detect double-click events. see issue https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18859 and http://stackoverflow.com/questions/38700587/double-click-highlight-selectio… thanks nicolai

Aug. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] when Cmd-P can just display a string in the debugger

by Alexandre Bergel

Often the reason of annoyance is either time consuming or simply complicated to detail. Anyway, personally, I am not really perturbed by the button location. The print-it in the debugger is no more an annoyance when the Cmd-c bidding can simply copy the print-it. It is exactly what I wish to do most of the time. What seriously bother me, is the instability of Athens, which cannot be fixed. And the highly-suboptimal Git integration. These are what may make me move away from Pharo. Alexandre > On Aug 7, 2016, at 10:10 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi Dale, > > Thanks for your thoughts. And thanks for giving these new quirks time to settle :). > > Actually, I am looking for what is annoying and I specifically interested in the reasons why it is annoying. Please feel free to report the bits that annoy you. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> On Aug 7, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 8/7/16 6:16 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> Hi Stef, >>> >>> >>> That is why we made the default printing not affect the text editor, and this feature is around since almost 2 years and, except of you, there was no other complain. >>> >> I believe that this is a logical fallacy ... many developers are too busy actually trying to do work with these tools and don't have time or inclination to get involved in an argument :) >> >> There are a number of odd, awkward, hidden, "old way does not work anymore" things that I am running into as I have just been using Pharo5.0 for a couple of months ... I understand that when the GUI changes one must give it a little bit of time to "settle in" and see if my annoyance is due to the fact that things have changed or if the "old way was better" ... >> >> I don't like the funky popup prints either --- they often obscure the underlying text and when I do something to see the underlying text I lose the printout --- occasionally it is useful as a preview but that's not the only use case .. often the result is what I want ... >> >> But I am trying to do real work and I really don't have the time to get into an embroiled argument over things so far I feel less productive (the debugger buttons are a real annoyance) but perhaps with practice and patience I will eventually see the light of putting heavily used menu items off in a corner ... >> >> BTW, I've basically given up on using browser shortcuts altogether ... I am assuming that the shortcuts will be changing yet again in 6.0 so I'm not going to try to memorize shortcuts that will be changing every 6 months :) >> >> While I am complaining --- is there a way to be able to change the width of the inspector panes in a debugger? I'm almost never able to see what I want to see in the inspector panes because they aren't wide enough and unlike every other pane in the universe, I can't grab the pane and change its width ... I'm sure you have a good argument for why it can't be moved --- but that doesn't stop me from being annoyed ... >> >> Optimized code is often uglier than the cleanly crafted beautiful code that runs too damn slow ... >> >> I could go on and on, but I'm sure you've good reasons for all of the the things that you have changed and this isn't the only GUI in the world that is annoying to use :) >> >> Remember that I am still in the phase of "give it a little bit of time to "settle in" and see if my annoyance is due to the fact that things have changed or if the "old way was better" ... " >> >> Dale >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc, Bloc 2 and Brick

by webwarrior

stepharo wrote > ... > > In June we spent three days to understand if we should merge Bloc2 > into Bloc and we decided the inverse because > his implementation is based on SDL and a separate window) it does > not suffer from the morphic plague. So for example > the event bubbling is nice and clean. The idea is to be able to use > one window (morphic) to develop > all the widgets and displayed in the SDL window needed up to the > point where we can remove morphic. > > ... Does that mean that Bloc will only work in separate window until Morphic is fully replaced and removed from the image? That would take many years I guess. And before that, all tools like debugger etc. will open themselves in host (Morphic) window? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Bloc-Bloc-2-and-Brick-tp4909112p4909861.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 7, 2016

Spec TreeModel get selected items in order

by Nicolai Hess

Hi, Is there a way to retrive the selected nodes of a TreeModel in the same order they are shown in the widget ? For example, open this tree model, and select item 5/4/3/1 |t| Transcript clear. t := TreeModel new. t beCheckList ; autoMultiSelection: true. t roots:((1 to:10) collect:[:c | TreeNodeModel new content:c;hasContentToShow:true]). t openWithSpec. t inspect . Now, if I try to collect the selected items with t selectedItems collect:#contents they appear in the order I selected them, but I would like to get the order 1/2/3/4/5 thanks Nicolai

Aug. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] when Cmd-P can just display a string in the debugger

by Nicolai Hess

2016-08-07 16:10 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi Dale, > > Thanks for your thoughts. And thanks for giving these new quirks time to > settle :). > > Actually, I am looking for what is annoying and I specifically interested > in the reasons why it is annoying. Please feel free to report the bits that > annoy you. > +1 Pharo is not an environment where we should live with annoyance. I would encourage people to report anything that disturbs the daily work and discuss what behavior or gui layout is expected and what could be done better. I am sure we can not find a way to satisfy all, we have different workflows and different expectations, but it is better to talk about, instead of just live with it. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > > On Aug 7, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs@gemtalksystems. > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 8/7/16 6:16 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi Stef, > >> > >> > >> That is why we made the default printing not affect the text editor, > and this feature is around since almost 2 years and, except of you, there > was no other complain. > >> > > I believe that this is a logical fallacy ... many developers are too > busy actually trying to do work with these tools and don't have time or > inclination to get involved in an argument :) > > > > There are a number of odd, awkward, hidden, "old way does not work > anymore" things that I am running into as I have just been using Pharo5.0 > for a couple of months ... I understand that when the GUI changes one must > give it a little bit of time to "settle in" and see if my annoyance is due > to the fact that things have changed or if the "old way was better" ... > > > > I don't like the funky popup prints either --- they often obscure the > underlying text and when I do something to see the underlying text I lose > the printout --- occasionally it is useful as a preview but that's not the > only use case .. often the result is what I want ... > > > > But I am trying to do real work and I really don't have the time to get > into an embroiled argument over things so far I feel less productive (the > debugger buttons are a real annoyance) but perhaps with practice and > patience I will eventually see the light of putting heavily used menu items > off in a corner ... > > > > BTW, I've basically given up on using browser shortcuts altogether ... I > am assuming that the shortcuts will be changing yet again in 6.0 so I'm not > going to try to memorize shortcuts that will be changing every 6 months :) > > > > While I am complaining --- is there a way to be able to change the width > of the inspector panes in a debugger? I'm almost never able to see what I > want to see in the inspector panes because they aren't wide enough and > unlike every other pane in the universe, I can't grab the pane and change > its width ... I'm sure you have a good argument for why it can't be moved > --- but that doesn't stop me from being annoyed ... > > > > Optimized code is often uglier than the cleanly crafted beautiful code > that runs too damn slow ... > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm sure you've good reasons for all of the > the things that you have changed and this isn't the only GUI in the world > that is annoying to use :) > > > > Remember that I am still in the phase of "give it a little bit of time > to "settle in" and see if my annoyance is due to the fact that things have > changed or if the "old way was better" ... " > > > > Dale > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > > >

Aug. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Looking for preferences to move the debugger buttons

by Tudor Girba

Hi Stef, I never explained anyone how they do not understand something :). When I try to explain something, I mostly try to explain how I reason and the kinds of constraints I considered so that others can find what is wrong. Related to your issue, there is no preference currently. Interestingly, others have asked for changes for a different layout of the default debugger. So, we should have a way to allow people to enable/disable debuggers (similar to how it is for Spotter extensions) and we could then allow people to choose between different formats for the default debugger. I stress âdefault" because there are others, and this is what my previous mail actually described (and not breaking the design rules). I did not get a reply to that mail, so I thought that the description was meaningful enough. It looks like it was not. I opened an issue for this: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18882/GTDebugger-should-offer-enable-disa… Cheers, Doru > On Aug 7, 2016, at 9:42 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Hi > > I'm FEDUP to have to go up to click on buttons in the debugger. > > I know that some of you have a preferences to fix this problem (yes doru nicely explain that we do not understand anything > > and this is part of design but I do not care of design I care about my efficiency - as if Apple wuld not break their design rules in any version of iTunes). > > And I would like to use such preferences. > > > Stef > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Value is always contextual."

Aug. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > On Aug 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2016-08-07 15:23 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi, > > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2016-08-03 10:02 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > Hi, > > > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 23:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 20:55 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Command is an actual key on Mac next to Option(which is Alt) and Control. So, Command is a concrete key and mapping it logically to another key on another platform is mixing semantics. > > > > > > I propose to have two distinct layers in the image: > > > 1. the raw layer is about having a distinct selector for each concrete key that is found on the keyboard. Right now, it seems to me that the VM does a bit of interpretation and mapping, and if it does, I think it should just provide a distinct code for each distinct key. > > > 2. the portable layer is about having a couple of selectors (e.g., #meta, #secondaryMeta) that provide consistent mappings to the raw keys. > > > > > > So, in this way, #command/#control/#alt would belong to layer 1. and #meta/#secondaryMeta (we could find a better name) would belong to layer 2. > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > So, what does that mean for the text navigation mapping in Rubric. Which shortcut should I use? > > > > > > Any way to take a decision? > > > > > > I don't really want to wait until we implement a new layer. > > > > Thanks for the ping. > > > > I think that you cannot use now properly a uniform shortcut if we do not introduce these âlayersâ. I also think that we are talking about a couple of methods, so the effort is only in making the decision. I think that given that nobody disagreed, we can go ahead with it. > > > > For the specific question related to text navigation in Rubric, you could use #meta. > > > > But how? > > If I add this to RubTextEditor class>>#buildShortcutsOn: aBuilder > > > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #nextWord) > > category: RubTextEditor name > > default: Character arrowRight meta > > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorRight: event] > > description: 'move to next word'. > > > > > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #previousWord) > > category: RubTextEditor name > > default: Character arrowLeft meta > > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorLeft: event] > > description: 'move to the previous word'. > > > > > > we can not dive in/out in spotter. > > > > This is why I asked: > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from > > cmd+right > > cmd+shift+right > > to > > ctrl+right > > ctrl+shift+right > > Oh, I see now! > > The change was made from cmd+right to meta+right in the move of Guille to make all keybindings uniform. > > If a keybinding would be problematic in Spotter, we could also override the keybinding directly in the Spotter editor, I think. What do you think? > > what is Spotter editor? if it is the text input field, yes, but you have to overwrite it on this morph That is what I meant, to define the keys for diving twice, once in the spotter morph and once in the text input field. This should solve the problem, right? Cheers, Doru > right now spotter defines the shortcut on the spotter morph. This won' t work > if rubtext components define the word-movement with the kmdispatcher. ( I already explained why). > > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 18:25 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 14:35 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit removed from the code details at the moment, and I think I need to step back a bit :). > > > > > > > > > > If I understand correctly, you are saying that: > > > > > 1. defining bindings with #alt does not work on Windows. This means that we should fix this one. Using Cmd should not be a solution here. > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, this is on purpose. A key pressed with windows (left) alt modified is mapped to "command" > > > > > > > > > > from vm source: > > > > > > > > > > * 3) The modifier keys are mapped as follows: > > > > > * > > > > > * Mac | Win32 > > > > > * -------------------- > > > > > * Shift -> Shift > > > > > * Ctrl -> Ctrl > > > > > * Command -> Left ALT > > > > > * Option -> Right ALT > > > > > > > > > > (but actually, the right ALT key does not generate any keystrokes (only key down/up) and it is treated as ctrl+alt (windows right Alt key is "Alt Grâ) > > > > > > > > Hmm. I think we have to rethink this one because we need two layers of keys: > > > > 1. first we should have the raw ones, and > > > > > > > > what are the "raw" ones? The events the OS generates or the events the VM send out to the image? > > > > > > > > 2. another layer that offers a more logical keys (like meta). > > > > > > > > Can you explain this a bit more. > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. defining the > > > > > bindings for Spotter can indeed be made to override the ones in the text editor if needed. But, I think we can start thinking about using #alt. > > > > > > > > > > using alt+right on windows/linux and > > > > > command + right on mac > > > > > for dive-in or for text navigation? > > > > > > > > > > Is there a default keycombination for word-moving in text components for mac ? > > > > > > > > On Mac, typically Alt+Right/Left moves between words. > > > > > > > > So, we would need a logical modifier that would mean: > > > > - Mac: Alt > > > > - Win: Ctrl > > > > - Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > > > I though this is what Guillermo already did, but with "command" > > > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > - Win/Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > > > Why did we choose Command and not Alt in the first place, why is Alt now better? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-16 22:45 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we are mixing the topics a bit. The #meta discussion is not specific to Spotter actions. > > > > > > > > > > > > On windows, it is. Because on windows #meta is mapped to #ctrl, and you can use ctrl+left/right for moving by "words". This works in a browser, an editor, pharos text components but *not* in spotter > > > > > > because spotter redefines this keystrokes for dive in /out. > > > > > > Currently, both ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right (and shift for selection) are working in rubric for moving by "word". But only because the (old) shortcut (cmd/shiftcmd) action dispatcher > > > > > > explicitly allows both. If we want to remove this and use the KMDispatcher framework only, we *need* to define only one mapping, otherwise you won't be able to use dive in/out in spotter. > > > > > > (Or you could modify spotter to register(overwrite) the mapping on the textfield instead of the spotter morph). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea was to offer a uniform support of keybindings in Pharo, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, and using ctrl+left/right uniformly in editor and external tools would be great. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then Guille etal added #meta to have a predictable mapping. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and to make this work, we have to remove the old keymapping implementation (cmd/shiftcmd action map) and use the KMDispatcher registration. But I can only continue with this > > > > > > if we have a decision what to use, (windows/linux: either ctrl+arrow or alt+arrow, mac: whatever is used on a mac for text navigation) > > > > > > > > > > > > All #cmd places were changed to #meta, and since then we should not use explicitly #cmd anymore, except when we know we are on Mac. For a portable modifier, we should only use #meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, both Rubric and Spotter use #meta. #meta maps on: > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > > > - Win: Control > > > > > > - Linus: Control > > > > > > > > > > > > This means that #alt is now a portable modifier that will not conflict with #meta, so we can now think of using that one in combination with #meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can not use #alt modifier on windows. A shortcut definition like > > > > > > $g alt > > > > > > is never recognized. You have to define it > > > > > > $g command > > > > > > to make it work with as "alt+g"-keycombination (on windows). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For text navigation, the situation is a bit complicated. On Win/Linux, Ctrl+Right/Left moves the cursor between words. On Mac, Cmd+Right/Left moves the cursor at the end/beginning of line. So, using #meta for text navigation between words is not entirely accurate. We should use #ctrl instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > This would anyway mean that it would be an option to use #alt for Spotter now. But, if we are at it, would anyone be interested in working on revisiting the overall keybindings in Pharo? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 16:12 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > We can, but I remember there were some discussions and it was decided to use meta everywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we don't change this, I'll use cmd+left cmd+right in rubric, but this is bad, because all other navigate/select+navigate shortcuts would use meta as shortcut modifier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the arguments for using meta for dive-in/out shortcuts ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 15:08 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > During Pharo 5 most shortcuts from tools were changed to use "meta" instead of cmd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we change this for spotter ? cmd instead of meta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl left/right is often used for text components to move to next/previous word. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 13:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 07.06.2016 1:56 nachm. schrieb "Henrik Nergaard" <henrik.nergaard(a)uia.no>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IIRC the shortcut is not changed, it still is meta+right(+shift). Only the tooltip was changed to display the system specific key instead of âcmdâ so for Windows/Linux this would be âctrlâ. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In #40624, for example, it was cmd (alt-key on windows ) right/shift right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Henrik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:56 PM > > > > > > > > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > > > > > > Subject: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl+right > > > > > > > > ctrl+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know there were some discussions about this and that the behavior changed some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time ago, but I don't know the rational behind this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, > > > > > > you will end up with a messy haircut." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > "Quality cannot be an afterthought." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > "Every thing has its own flow." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "Don't give to get. Just give." > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."

Aug. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut

by Nicolai Hess

2016-08-07 15:23 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi, > > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2016-08-03 10:02 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > Hi, > > > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 23:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 20:55 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Command is an actual key on Mac next to Option(which is Alt) and > Control. So, Command is a concrete key and mapping it logically to another > key on another platform is mixing semantics. > > > > > > I propose to have two distinct layers in the image: > > > 1. the raw layer is about having a distinct selector for each concrete > key that is found on the keyboard. Right now, it seems to me that the VM > does a bit of interpretation and mapping, and if it does, I think it should > just provide a distinct code for each distinct key. > > > 2. the portable layer is about having a couple of selectors (e.g., > #meta, #secondaryMeta) that provide consistent mappings to the raw keys. > > > > > > So, in this way, #command/#control/#alt would belong to layer 1. and > #meta/#secondaryMeta (we could find a better name) would belong to layer 2. > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > So, what does that mean for the text navigation mapping in Rubric. > Which shortcut should I use? > > > > > > Any way to take a decision? > > > > > > I don't really want to wait until we implement a new layer. > > > > Thanks for the ping. > > > > I think that you cannot use now properly a uniform shortcut if we do not > introduce these âlayersâ. I also think that we are talking about a couple > of methods, so the effort is only in making the decision. I think that > given that nobody disagreed, we can go ahead with it. > > > > For the specific question related to text navigation in Rubric, you > could use #meta. > > > > But how? > > If I add this to RubTextEditor class>>#buildShortcutsOn: aBuilder > > > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #nextWord) > > category: RubTextEditor name > > default: Character arrowRight meta > > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorRight: event] > > description: 'move to next word'. > > > > > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #previousWord) > > category: RubTextEditor name > > default: Character arrowLeft meta > > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorLeft: event] > > description: 'move to the previous word'. > > > > > > we can not dive in/out in spotter. > > > > This is why I asked: > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from > > cmd+right > > cmd+shift+right > > to > > ctrl+right > > ctrl+shift+right > > Oh, I see now! > > The change was made from cmd+right to meta+right in the move of Guille to > make all keybindings uniform. > > If a keybinding would be problematic in Spotter, we could also override > the keybinding directly in the Spotter editor, I think. What do you think? > what is Spotter editor? if it is the text input field, yes, but you have to overwrite it on this morph, right now spotter defines the shortcut on the spotter morph. This won' t work if rubtext components define the word-movement with the kmdispatcher. ( I already explained why). > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 18:25 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 14:35 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit removed from the code details at the moment, and I > think I need to step back a bit :). > > > > > > > > > > If I understand correctly, you are saying that: > > > > > 1. defining bindings with #alt does not work on Windows. This > means that we should fix this one. Using Cmd should not be a solution here. > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, this is on purpose. A key pressed with windows > (left) alt modified is mapped to "command" > > > > > > > > > > from vm source: > > > > > > > > > > * 3) The modifier keys are mapped as follows: > > > > > * > > > > > * Mac | Win32 > > > > > * -------------------- > > > > > * Shift -> Shift > > > > > * Ctrl -> Ctrl > > > > > * Command -> Left ALT > > > > > * Option -> Right ALT > > > > > > > > > > (but actually, the right ALT key does not generate any keystrokes > (only key down/up) and it is treated as ctrl+alt (windows right Alt key is > "Alt Grâ) > > > > > > > > Hmm. I think we have to rethink this one because we need two layers > of keys: > > > > 1. first we should have the raw ones, and > > > > > > > > what are the "raw" ones? The events the OS generates or the events > the VM send out to the image? > > > > > > > > 2. another layer that offers a more logical keys (like meta). > > > > > > > > Can you explain this a bit more. > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. defining the > > > > > bindings for Spotter can indeed be made to override the ones in > the text editor if needed. But, I think we can start thinking about using > #alt. > > > > > > > > > > using alt+right on windows/linux and > > > > > command + right on mac > > > > > for dive-in or for text navigation? > > > > > > > > > > Is there a default keycombination for word-moving in text > components for mac ? > > > > > > > > On Mac, typically Alt+Right/Left moves between words. > > > > > > > > So, we would need a logical modifier that would mean: > > > > - Mac: Alt > > > > - Win: Ctrl > > > > - Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > > > I though this is what Guillermo already did, but with "command" > > > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > - Win/Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > > > Why did we choose Command and not Alt in the first place, why is Alt > now better? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Nicolai Hess < > nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-16 22:45 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we are mixing the topics a bit. The #meta discussion is > not specific to Spotter actions. > > > > > > > > > > > > On windows, it is. Because on windows #meta is mapped to #ctrl, > and you can use ctrl+left/right for moving by "words". This works in a > browser, an editor, pharos text components but *not* in spotter > > > > > > because spotter redefines this keystrokes for dive in /out. > > > > > > Currently, both ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right (and shift > for selection) are working in rubric for moving by "word". But only because > the (old) shortcut (cmd/shiftcmd) action dispatcher > > > > > > explicitly allows both. If we want to remove this and use the > KMDispatcher framework only, we *need* to define only one mapping, > otherwise you won't be able to use dive in/out in spotter. > > > > > > (Or you could modify spotter to register(overwrite) the mapping > on the textfield instead of the spotter morph). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea was to offer a uniform support of keybindings in Pharo, > in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, and using ctrl+left/right uniformly in editor and > external tools would be great. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then Guille etal added #meta to have a predictable mapping. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and to make this work, we have to remove the old keymapping > implementation (cmd/shiftcmd action map) and use the KMDispatcher > registration. But I can only continue with this > > > > > > if we have a decision what to use, (windows/linux: either > ctrl+arrow or alt+arrow, mac: whatever is used on a mac for text navigation) > > > > > > > > > > > > All #cmd places were changed to #meta, and since then we should > not use explicitly #cmd anymore, except when we know we are on Mac. For a > portable modifier, we should only use #meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, both Rubric and Spotter use #meta. #meta maps on: > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > > > - Win: Control > > > > > > - Linus: Control > > > > > > > > > > > > This means that #alt is now a portable modifier that will not > conflict with #meta, so we can now think of using that one in combination > with #meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can not use #alt modifier on windows. A shortcut definition > like > > > > > > $g alt > > > > > > is never recognized. You have to define it > > > > > > $g command > > > > > > to make it work with as "alt+g"-keycombination (on windows). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For text navigation, the situation is a bit complicated. On > Win/Linux, Ctrl+Right/Left moves the cursor between words. On Mac, > Cmd+Right/Left moves the cursor at the end/beginning of line. So, using > #meta for text navigation between words is not entirely accurate. We should > use #ctrl instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > This would anyway mean that it would be an option to use #alt > for Spotter now. But, if we are at it, would anyone be interested in > working on revisiting the overall keybindings in Pharo? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Nicolai Hess < > nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 16:12 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis < > chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > We can, but I remember there were some discussions and it was > decided to use meta everywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we don't change this, I'll use cmd+left cmd+right in > rubric, but this is bad, because all other navigate/select+navigate > shortcuts would use meta as shortcut modifier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the arguments for using meta for dive-in/out > shortcuts ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Nicolai Hess < > nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 15:08 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis < > chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > During Pharo 5 most shortcuts from tools were changed to use > "meta" instead of cmd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we change this for spotter ? cmd instead of meta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl left/right is often used for text components to move to > next/previous word. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nicolai Hess < > nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 13:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 07.06.2016 1:56 nachm. schrieb "Henrik Nergaard" < > henrik.nergaard(a)uia.no>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IIRC the shortcut is not changed, it still is > meta+right(+shift). Only the tooltip was changed to display the system > specific key instead of âcmdâ so for Windows/Linux this would be âctrlâ. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In #40624, for example, it was cmd (alt-key on windows ) > right/shift right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Henrik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] > On Behalf Of Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:56 PM > > > > > > > > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > > > > > > Subject: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl+right > > > > > > > > ctrl+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know there were some discussions about this and that the > behavior changed some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time ago, but I don't know the rational behind this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, > > > > > > you will end up with a messy haircut." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > "Quality cannot be an afterthought." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > "Every thing has its own flow." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "Don't give to get. Just give." > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" > > >

Aug. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] when Cmd-P can just display a string in the debugger

by Tudor Girba

Hi Dale, Thanks for your thoughts. And thanks for giving these new quirks time to settle :). Actually, I am looking for what is annoying and I specifically interested in the reasons why it is annoying. Please feel free to report the bits that annoy you. Cheers, Doru > On Aug 7, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > > > On 8/7/16 6:16 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> Hi Stef, >> >> >> That is why we made the default printing not affect the text editor, and this feature is around since almost 2 years and, except of you, there was no other complain. >> > I believe that this is a logical fallacy ... many developers are too busy actually trying to do work with these tools and don't have time or inclination to get involved in an argument :) > > There are a number of odd, awkward, hidden, "old way does not work anymore" things that I am running into as I have just been using Pharo5.0 for a couple of months ... I understand that when the GUI changes one must give it a little bit of time to "settle in" and see if my annoyance is due to the fact that things have changed or if the "old way was better" ... > > I don't like the funky popup prints either --- they often obscure the underlying text and when I do something to see the underlying text I lose the printout --- occasionally it is useful as a preview but that's not the only use case .. often the result is what I want ... > > But I am trying to do real work and I really don't have the time to get into an embroiled argument over things so far I feel less productive (the debugger buttons are a real annoyance) but perhaps with practice and patience I will eventually see the light of putting heavily used menu items off in a corner ... > > BTW, I've basically given up on using browser shortcuts altogether ... I am assuming that the shortcuts will be changing yet again in 6.0 so I'm not going to try to memorize shortcuts that will be changing every 6 months :) > > While I am complaining --- is there a way to be able to change the width of the inspector panes in a debugger? I'm almost never able to see what I want to see in the inspector panes because they aren't wide enough and unlike every other pane in the universe, I can't grab the pane and change its width ... I'm sure you have a good argument for why it can't be moved --- but that doesn't stop me from being annoyed ... > > Optimized code is often uglier than the cleanly crafted beautiful code that runs too damn slow ... > > I could go on and on, but I'm sure you've good reasons for all of the the things that you have changed and this isn't the only GUI in the world that is annoying to use :) > > Remember that I am still in the phase of "give it a little bit of time to "settle in" and see if my annoyance is due to the fact that things have changed or if the "old way was better" ... " > > Dale > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Being happy is a matter of choice."

Aug. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] when Cmd-P can just display a string in the debugger

by Dale Henrichs

On 8/7/16 6:16 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi Stef, > > > That is why we made the default printing not affect the text editor, and this feature is around since almost 2 years and, except of you, there was no other complain. > I believe that this is a logical fallacy ... many developers are too busy actually trying to do work with these tools and don't have time or inclination to get involved in an argument :) There are a number of odd, awkward, hidden, "old way does not work anymore" things that I am running into as I have just been using Pharo5.0 for a couple of months ... I understand that when the GUI changes one must give it a little bit of time to "settle in" and see if my annoyance is due to the fact that things have changed or if the "old way was better" ... I don't like the funky popup prints either --- they often obscure the underlying text and when I do something to see the underlying text I lose the printout --- occasionally it is useful as a preview but that's not the only use case .. often the result is what I want ... But I am trying to do real work and I really don't have the time to get into an embroiled argument over things so far I feel less productive (the debugger buttons are a real annoyance) but perhaps with practice and patience I will eventually see the light of putting heavily used menu items off in a corner ... BTW, I've basically given up on using browser shortcuts altogether ... I am assuming that the shortcuts will be changing yet again in 6.0 so I'm not going to try to memorize shortcuts that will be changing every 6 months :) While I am complaining --- is there a way to be able to change the width of the inspector panes in a debugger? I'm almost never able to see what I want to see in the inspector panes because they aren't wide enough and unlike every other pane in the universe, I can't grab the pane and change its width ... I'm sure you have a good argument for why it can't be moved --- but that doesn't stop me from being annoyed ... Optimized code is often uglier than the cleanly crafted beautiful code that runs too damn slow ... I could go on and on, but I'm sure you've good reasons for all of the the things that you have changed and this isn't the only GUI in the world that is annoying to use :) Remember that I am still in the phase of "give it a little bit of time to "settle in" and see if my annoyance is due to the fact that things have changed or if the "old way was better" ... " Dale

Aug. 7, 2016