August 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] About asClass and friend

by stepharo

> Ah, I am using that a lot to parametrize software. > > On one hand Pharo is breaking with the past, on the other one it > sticks with it as much as possible? #MeConfused asHell. > This has nothing to do with complying with the past. Do you think seriously that if we could replace self class env: #foo but #foo asClass and get the same we would not do it? Since you know that we are smart guys, I let you as an exercise to understand why we are picky about not using it. > #SomeSymbol asClass looks very practical and cleaner that looking the > class dictionary with at: #SomeSymbol > No but I will let you try to find a bit by yourself before telling it to you why ;D Some hints: if you do not want that we succeed to - be able to compile pharo code inside a different namespace, object space, - be able to compile the compiler code modified to be able to recompile itself - be able to use our tools to compile code for another system like Gemstone then yes let us use a solution with 7 letters less because it is not cleaner but shorter. Stef > Phil > > Phil > > > Le 25 aoÃ»t 2016 07:22, "stepharo" <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> a Ã©crit : > > Hi guys > > We got a meeting at ESUG with all the compiler guys and james from > gemstone. > > Our goal is to have a full tool suite that can be parametrized by > environments (so that > > we can compile code in other space, or compile other code inside > pharo). > > I personnally started this effort one decade ago. Now the introduction > > of #asClass and friend is simply destroying all our efforts. There > was a discussion > > in the past but we are not listened. > > We will > > - packaged these extensions in a separate package > > - add rules to ban the use of such method in Pharo > > - fix all the use (again) to use the correct way to do it. > > > I can understand that for scripting this is easier but it cannot > be at that cost and impact. > > I hope that we will understand but we have to do something else than > > fixing code that breaks our effort. > > > Stef, Marcus, Guille and Luc > >

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About asClass and friend

by stepharo

>>> Hi, >>> >>> There exists already a method for that: >>> Symbol>>asClassInEnvironment: >>> >>> But, what if we introduce: >>> >>> Symbol>>asClassFrom: anObject >>> ^ self asClassInEnvironment: anObject class environment >>> >>> ? >> The problem is asClass unary. >> >> All the tools should be parametrized by an environment. > Yes, but asClassFrom: would not be unary but would save us from typing an extra "class environment" :). Yes I see. But inside Pharo core tools we are ready to type environment as a message that dispatch to something else than a symbol. >>> This would allow us to still script and be dynamic. >>> >>> Furthermore, as #asClass is meant to be mainly used for convenience, not performance, I would also propose to make it lookup in thisContext and take the environment from there. I know that his might sound like magic, but it would be the default that we are looking for (to always lookup through the current environment dynamically). >> argh I will die....:) >> No use of thisContext or only in the scripting package. >> :D >> >> Yes, yes. I just talked with Guille. Moving these scripting methods outside of the Kernel is clearly a must. I think that each time you use them we will preempt cross compilation and others. >> >> I was just thinking that we can make it so that we do not break any code while still making it dynamic. I do not like your definition of dynamic. Sending a message to an object is dynamic. What you imply is compact. I can understand it when typing in playground. >> Like with scripting solutions there is a performance penalty, but that is fine if people choose to pay it (like in the case of Symbol>>#value:). Yes for scripts. Not for core code. Since people tend to be a bit lazy I think that having rules will make sense. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 25, 2016, at 8:34 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Just my 2 cents: >>>> >>>> >>>> instead of >>>> >>>> #name asClass >>>> >>>> we have to use >>>> >>>> self class environment at: #name. >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe instead of #at: we can have #classNamed:? Or something similar? Because 1) itâs not obvious that the method will give you a class, what if in the future and environment can also have a mapping of something else like packages? >>>> >>>> Uko >>>> >>>>> On 25 Aug 2016, at 07:21, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi guys >>>>> >>>>> We got a meeting at ESUG with all the compiler guys and james from gemstone. >>>>> >>>>> Our goal is to have a full tool suite that can be parametrized by environments (so that >>>>> >>>>> we can compile code in other space, or compile other code inside pharo). >>>>> >>>>> I personnally started this effort one decade ago. Now the introduction >>>>> >>>>> of #asClass and friend is simply destroying all our efforts. There was a discussion >>>>> >>>>> in the past but we are not listened. >>>>> >>>>> We will >>>>> >>>>> - packaged these extensions in a separate package >>>>> >>>>> - add rules to ban the use of such method in Pharo >>>>> >>>>> - fix all the use (again) to use the correct way to do it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I can understand that for scripting this is easier but it cannot be at that cost and impact. >>>>> >>>>> I hope that we will understand but we have to do something else than >>>>> >>>>> fixing code that breaks our effort. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Stef, Marcus, Guille and Luc >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it." >>> >>> >>> >> > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Quality cannot be an afterthought." > > >

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About asClass and friend

by stepharo

Yes this is what I was thinking too :) > Hi > > 2016-08-25 8:52 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com > <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>>: > > Furthermore, as #asClass is meant to be mainly used for > convenience, not performance, I would also propose to make it > lookup in thisContext and take the environment from there. I know > that his might sound like magic, but it would be the default that > we are looking for (to always lookup through the current > environment dynamically). > > > We could also make #asClass as "always deprecated" method with > automatic rewriting. So in tools people will always see that it is > better to not use it. > But for scripting it will work normally. Also if people will commit > such code it will become dirty very fast and always. And they will > need to fix it >

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] problem with Epicea and #name

by stepharo

Le 25/8/16 Ã 14:10, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > Hi Martin, > > Thanks a lot for the quick response. > > As Andrei said, please do not feel sorry. Epicea is an important new core component and just because it is a core one every tiny error will appear as a large problem. But, we are all humans here, and it should be expected that we make errors :). + 1 Even the king of Pharo is doing errors :) Stef > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Aug 25, 2016, at 1:19 PM, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Martin, >> >> To reproduce the error execute the code below. The first part does some cleanups needed to remove the code. The second part attempts to remove two packages and seems to go into a recursion. If you interrupt the execution with cmd+. you'll see a lot of Context>>#handleSignal:. If you right click on one and select 'Peel to first like this' it will find the original context that triggered the error. >> >> Don't worry there is no inconvenience :). >> Thanks for looking into this. >> >> GTExampleOrganizer instance reset. >> GTExampleOrganizer instance stopThoroughly. >> GTExampleOrganizer stop. >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> self assert: GTExample allSubInstances isEmpty. >> self assert: GTExampleMethod allSubInstances isEmpty. >> >> Gofer new >> smalltalkhubUser: 'Moose' project: 'GToolkit'; >> package: 'GT-InspectorExtensions-Core'; >> package: 'GT-Inspector'; >> load. >> >> Cheers, >> Andrei >> >> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Martin Dias <tinchodias(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Andrei, there is an open issue that involves #name in category removal whose fix is ready in bleeding edge and only waits that i release the new stable version. But this is about category removal, not class removal. This night I will take a look on the code of class removal... however, could you send a stack trace, please? >> I'm sorry for the inconvenience. >> MartÃn >> >> >> El 25/8/2016 7:18, "Andrei Chis" <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> escribiÃ³: >> Hi, >> >> When trying to load a new version of the GTInspector in the latest Pharo image I get an infinite recursion. It seems that the problem is appears because a class is removed, which at a certain point calls #asEpiceaRingDefinition. This does then 'self superclass name', however, the superclass is nil and UndefinedObject>>#name is called, which is deprecated. This should open a warning window and but it leads to an infinite recursion. Know problem or should I opened an issues? >> >> Cheers, >> Andrei >> > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" > > >

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] problem with Epicea and #name

by stepharo

thanks martin! I really appreciate that you maintain epicea because this is a great tool. Le 25/8/16 Ã 13:00, Martin Dias a Ã©crit : > > Hi Andrei, there is an open issue that involves #name in category > removal whose fix is ready in bleeding edge and only waits that i > release the new stable version. But this is about category removal, > not class removal. This night I will take a look on the code of class > removal... however, could you send a stack trace, please? > I'm sorry for the inconvenience. > MartÃn > > > El 25/8/2016 7:18, "Andrei Chis" <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com > <mailto:chisvasileandrei@gmail.com>> escribiÃ³: > > Hi, > > When trying to load a new version of the GTInspector in the latest > Pharo image I get an infinite recursion. It seems that the problem > is appears because a class is removed, which at a certain point > calls #asEpiceaRingDefinition. This does then 'self superclass > name', however, the superclass is nil and UndefinedObject>>#name > is called, which is deprecated. This should open a warning window > and but it leads to an infinite recursion. Know problem or should > I opened an issues? > > Cheers, > Andrei >

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] WideString and commits

by stepharo

Le 25/8/16 Ã 16:55, Nicolas Cellier a Ã©crit : > Do we now since when? unfortunately not. @Cyril this is in Pharo50? > > 2016-08-25 16:49 GMT+02:00 Cyril Ferlicot Delbecque > <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com <mailto:cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com>>: > > Hi! > > I opened an issue month ago on fogbugs because I could not commit some > packages. I didn't get time to investigate it and nobody could. > > With Guille we found that the problem is that the code contained a > special character. It contains a â¥... And we cannot commit specials > character anymore on Monticello and I think that it is the same with > Ã©Ã¨Ã ÃÃ¡Ã²... > > Unfortunately I don't know enough this part of Pharo and I do not have > the time to look at it for now. I just wanted to bring some light > on the > issue because there was no activity on the bug since month and I think > that this is pretty important. If someone know how to fix it or know > some pointers this is welcome. :) > > The bug repport: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18711/Cannot-commit-a-special-character-i… > <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18711/Cannot-commit-a-special-character-i…> > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > > http://www.synectique.eu > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > Lille 59000 France > >

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ann] GTExamples alpha

by Nicolai Hess

2016-08-25 8:47 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi, > Hi Doru, some questions and feedback ( I am sorry for my tone or if this sounds negative, it isn't meant to be) > Over the last coupe of years Stefan Reichhart and the rest of the GT team > worked on an implementation of examples. The work is inspired from previous > work done by Markus Gaelli and Adrian Kuhn. > > As one of the goals of GT is to offer a live programming environment, Isn't this what we already have, a live programming environment, I think for newcomers (and maybe others) this needs to make be more clear, how is different, what gap are you trying to fill. > one important issue is how to move from the static code to live objects as > fast as possible. Isn't code always "static" and aren't objects always "live", how do play gtExamples any role in this? > That is why we worked on this library as a solution to provide a link > between the static code and live objects. > >From my understanding, I think this "link" between code an objects is the real valuable new point. This is the great thing about gtExamples. link from code (the example methods itself or methods refering a class to an example object/instance that can be inspected (the raw object or an object specific inspector pane). This is what I would consider the real step forward. You see a method refering to class TextModel and Nautilus or any other tool not only offers a method to browse all Users of this class, but too, a dedicated list of "example methods" where every example has a view for this example instance that let the user show and interact (even for non-visual objects through the "evaluater pane", or just see the code creating this example. We really miss examples, I often see questions on the mailing list (especially about spect) that can be explained easily with an example. And even worse, often the examples already exists, they just aren't as visible. > > Furthermore, this examples library also enables the definition of > assertions on the examples, and this provides the possibility of rethinking > the way we construct tests throughout our system. Tests are great as they > help us create live objects and then to assert live properties. This whole thing sounds as if Unit-Test were a good idea but not the way that they are used today, I strongly disagree. I don't see this as a "rethinking the way we construct tests", yes, we can augment the current set of tests with addtional assertions on live objects, but this is not a replacement. "Tests are great as they help us create live objects" This is not my only purpose for writing tests, often unit-tests cover methods and "private-apis" not even considered to be used on live objects. You can not (or I don't want to ) write tests only on "finished lived objects" sometimes we need tests for initialiazation/private code or exception handling I don't see how we can offer this only by using example instances (yes your "rethinking" sounds like "this is the better way to do tests"). > However, they do not allow us to leverage the objects we create, and this > can be a tremendous resource for understanding systems. > > In our vision, examples should be everywhere and they should be explicitly > linked to the static code they exemplify. That is why the library comes > with an initial integration in existing tools (such as Nautilus, Spotter, > Inspector). > > The current solution works well and it is the result of several rewrites. > We think that the solution is complete in terms of features, but there are > still several things to improve and iterate on. To this end, I kindly ask > you to take a look at it while distinguishing between the concrete > implementation choice (e.g., the current extensive use of pragmas) and the > conceptual benefits of the approach. > > To ease the discussion, we put together a short documentation: > Everytime I see a gtExample method on a class I first think, shouldn't this go to a Help or Doc or Exampels class instead. I don't know how others thinks about this but this is my first impression. For example, the example on your page: FileSystem class >> #createFileOnDisk <gtExample> <description: 'Create a new file or override an existing file with some contents. Open and close the stream safely'> ^ FileSystem workingDirectory / 'test.txt' writeStreamDo: [ :stream | stream nextPutAll: self comment ]; yourself Nice, now the user can see how to use FileSystem to create a file, open *and* close the stream safely. But for me, this method does *not* belong to the FileSystem class it just not make any sense to me, to have a method (*in this class*) that opens and closes a stream. Even if this is just an example, I would put it in a doc-page or a tutorial that can execute code. But again , this is just my point of view. I can not really explain it, having a example method on Morph or a widget ui or a widget model class, that opens an example morph or widget in the world, is for me something completly different and a valid example. Having the same for the method above - is not, at least not as executable code on the FileSystm class). > > http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html > > That being said, you can get it with the full GToolkit in Pharo 6.0: > Is this based on the recent Pharo 6.0? GTExamplesReleaseTests are failing for me Where did you test this? I get some Object>>#name deprecation warnings when browsing for examples refering a class, for example on class FileSystem and menu entry "Browse Examples refering FileSystem" (maybe a Pharo 5.0 version?) The example on the examples.html side isn't actually in the image right? The browsing examples of a package (context menu on nautilus package pane) does not work or I don't understand why it does not find any examples at all. The World menu "Browse All Examples" does not contain the class FileSystem, although FileSystem>>gtExampleZip is a gtExample, this is because the example method is in an extension package, should all gtExample methods be class extensions ? This is handled differently for different packages. The code pane context menu of a sendersOf Message browser is broken (debug menu). >From the web-side: "Furthermore, Nautilus, the World-Menu, all Rub-Text-Editors as well as Spotter and Inspector provide access to retrieve, browse and navigate examples from entities within the world" I can not find it, not in inspector, Rub-Text-Editors, only in Nautilus. And the menu entries are ... unfortunate (see screenshot), what you put in, the whole source as menu label? run "run the example and return its return-value" debug "same run, but open debugger if the example fails" returnValue "the return-value" Executing run/debug/inspect returnValue does not seem to make any different when called from nautilus. It always gives an inspector on a dictionary holding the gtexample and its gtexampleresult (is this a bug?) Glossary: "Example: an example is a tiny stub object representing a GT-Example. It holds the references to its dependencies, subjects and many other entities. " What are "many other entities" this is a bit unclear "After-method: the after-method is a method that is performed right after the example." After the example ? I thought an example is a "tiny stub *object*", how can it run? How it is run after I run an example for inspection, after I closed the inspector? > > http://gtoolkit.org/#install > (easiest is to download the ready made image for now) > > For those that are at ESUG, I will try to provide a short overview during > the Show Us Your Project session from today. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > >

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ann] Lam Research evaluates Pharo

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Ben, > On Aug 25, 2016, at 3:15 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> We are very happy to make the following announcement: >> >> >> Lam Research, a leading supplier of wafer fabrication equipment and services to the global semiconductor industry, is an experienced user of the Smalltalk programming language. Smalltalk is a key component in Lam's software control system for a broad range of the equipment it manufactures. Tudor Girba is a leading member of the tools and environment development effort in Pharo, having architected the Glamorous Toolkit for live programming. Eliot Miranda is author of the Cog virtual machine that underlies Pharo and other Smalltalk dialects. >> >> Lam has engaged Tudor and Eliot to explore potential enhancements in Lam's use of Smalltalk. These enhancements range from running >> highly optimized Smalltalk on low cost, single board computers > to enhancing Lam's Smalltalk development practices with > state-of-the-art live programming. During the engagement, Tudor and > Eliot successfully moved a key communication component of the control > system to Pharo. It was a challenging task aimed at extending the > reach of Lamâs system to the Pharo world including the option of > executing on ARM processors. >> >> Cheers, >> Tudor Girba, Eliot Miranda and Chris Thorgrimsson > > Great to hear of this - particularly since I guess some(much?) of it > was dealing with proprietary systems. I'll understand if you can't > answer the following questions in detail. I'm interested in: > * what model was the single board computers? Raspberry Pi 2. > Or what were its > specs/price? Or how much of your experience might carry over to a > board like the BeagleBone Black, particularly wrt to embedded control > via it Programmable Real-time Unit. I see no reason why it would t carry across without change. > * did the communication component involve a proprietary protocol? Or > one of the industry standard "process automation" protocols listed > here[1] ? The protocol is proprietary, but there are other equivalent open protocols in the Smalltalk space. See eg Seamless and Denis Kudriasov's protocol used with it for his remote debugger work. > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automation_protocols > > cheers -ben >

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About better communication in the community

by Gour

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:05:45 +0200 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Yes but we cannot do much OK. I got it...do you believe it makes sense for a noob to create acount in case there are some low-hanging fruits to pick? Sincerely, Gour -- >From wherever the mind wanders due to its flickering and unsteady nature, one must certainly withdraw it and bring it back under the control of the self.

Aug. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] WideString and commits

by Nicolas Cellier

Do we now since when? 2016-08-25 16:49 GMT+02:00 Cyril Ferlicot Delbecque < cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com>: > Hi! > > I opened an issue month ago on fogbugs because I could not commit some > packages. I didn't get time to investigate it and nobody could. > > With Guille we found that the problem is that the code contained a > special character. It contains a â¥... And we cannot commit specials > character anymore on Monticello and I think that it is the same with > Ã©Ã¨Ã ÃÃ¡Ã²... > > Unfortunately I don't know enough this part of Pharo and I do not have > the time to look at it for now. I just wanted to bring some light on the > issue because there was no activity on the bug since month and I think > that this is pretty important. If someone know how to fix it or know > some pointers this is welcome. :) > > The bug repport: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18711/Cannot-commit-a- > special-character-into-Monticello > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > > http://www.synectique.eu > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > Lille 59000 France > >

Aug. 25, 2016