August 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] About Pharo 60

by stepharo

Hi esteban I think that we should identify the main hook points and slowly prepare them. The system should be prepared for that so that we just need to pass a context to configure it. Stef Le 27/8/16 Ã 14:32, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > yes, some years ago I made a package for this. > later Ben tried something similar with the user manager. > none of those approaches worked as general approach because you need to âcloseâ a lot of thingsâ¦ (not just the spotterâ¦ which by the way, NEEDS to have a setting, no idea who answered you that but he is wrong), and image is not prepared for that. > > of course is still possible :) > > anyway, today I would tackle a solution in a different way: I would open my app morph on an SDL2 window and not touch the word at all (opening a headless image). This is not possible in windows because when you do âheadlessâ it just laugh at you, but is doable in the not-so-long term. > > Esteban > >> On 27 Aug 2016, at 13:39, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Le 27/08/2016 Ã 13:18, stepharo a Ã©crit : >>> >>> YES!!! >>> >>> Do you know how Settings works? >>> We can adapt it this way. >> When I improved the deployment of Synectique Tools I asked to get a >> simple way to disable Spotter via a setting but I got as answer "No >> because you can do it by removing a global shortcut so it is not needed.". >> >> People in companies don't have the time to learn how shortcuts work and >> how to remove one without impacting something else. And they don't have >> the time to check Spotter code to know how it is call. >> >> If the image is able to have a deployment mode then I don't care how >> Spotter is disabled (setting or removing a shortcut). But for now we >> don't have it. :) >> >>> I mean the User approach that Benjmain proposed and was pushed in Pharo >>> was not good because it was not modular. Now each part of the system >>> should be >>> defined in way that it can be set just as a setting. >>> We should not have >>> >>> World .... >>> User current = ifTrue >>> >>> But >>> >>> World use: userSetting >>> >>> and World should handle it. >>> There is way more to do :) >>> When you deploy on linux you should be able to say beSilent to the >>> system (do not write on places that you cannot). >>> Valentin works on it and we should continue >>> >>> Stef >>> >> The fact that there is much more to do is the main reason for Pharo to >> do it and not the developer. The developer cannot know all the system >> and will not be able to protect the code of his company well because he >> will forget something as to disable ctrl+o+p (or he is a god developer! >> But everyone is not). >> >> This is a large thing to do, so it would be cool that everyone keep that >> in mind to allow it little by little (as with the work of Valentin). >> >> -- >> Cyril Ferlicot >> >> http://www.synectique.eu >> >> 165 Avenue Bretagne >> Lille 59000 France >> > >

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About Pharo 60

by stepharo

Cyril what would be good is to share what you are disabling and to tunr such points into points that can be turned but inside Pharo like that you push the logic to the system. Now this is important to see that if people for which the value is high do not work on something why others would do it. >> YES!!! >> >> Do you know how Settings works? >> We can adapt it this way. > When I improved the deployment of Synectique Tools I asked to get a > simple way to disable Spotter via a setting but I got as answer "No > because you can do it by removing a global shortcut so it is not needed.". I do not know how to do it either. So we should document that. > People in companies don't have the time to learn how shortcuts work and > how to remove one without impacting something else. And they don't have > the time to check Spotter code to know how it is call. > > If the image is able to have a deployment mode then I don't care how > Spotter is disabled (setting or removing a shortcut). But for now we > don't have it. :) No you should care because one day you will come with a new requirement :) I understand what you mean but the point is that Pharo is our common architecture so we should just all pay attention and we cannot ask people to do everything because we all have 24 h a day. So we should be smart, share and build together. > >> I mean the User approach that Benjmain proposed and was pushed in Pharo >> was not good because it was not modular. Now each part of the system >> should be >> defined in way that it can be set just as a setting. >> We should not have >> >> World .... >> User current = ifTrue >> >> But >> >> World use: userSetting >> >> and World should handle it. >> There is way more to do :) >> When you deploy on linux you should be able to say beSilent to the >> system (do not write on places that you cannot). >> Valentin works on it and we should continue >> >> Stef >> > The fact that there is much more to do is the main reason for Pharo to > do it and not the developer. The developer cannot know all the system > and will not be able to protect the code of his company well because he > will forget something as to disable ctrl+o+p (or he is a god developer! > But everyone is not). > > This is a large thing to do, so it would be cool that everyone keep that > in mind to allow it little by little (as with the work of Valentin). >

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About Pharo 60

by Esteban Lorenzano

yes, some years ago I made a package for this. later Ben tried something similar with the user manager. none of those approaches worked as general approach because you need to âcloseâ a lot of thingsâ¦ (not just the spotterâ¦ which by the way, NEEDS to have a setting, no idea who answered you that but he is wrong), and image is not prepared for that. of course is still possible :) anyway, today I would tackle a solution in a different way: I would open my app morph on an SDL2 window and not touch the word at all (opening a headless image). This is not possible in windows because when you do âheadlessâ it just laugh at you, but is doable in the not-so-long term. Esteban > On 27 Aug 2016, at 13:39, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Le 27/08/2016 Ã 13:18, stepharo a Ã©crit : >> >> >> YES!!! >> >> Do you know how Settings works? >> We can adapt it this way. > > When I improved the deployment of Synectique Tools I asked to get a > simple way to disable Spotter via a setting but I got as answer "No > because you can do it by removing a global shortcut so it is not needed.". > > People in companies don't have the time to learn how shortcuts work and > how to remove one without impacting something else. And they don't have > the time to check Spotter code to know how it is call. > > If the image is able to have a deployment mode then I don't care how > Spotter is disabled (setting or removing a shortcut). But for now we > don't have it. :) > >> I mean the User approach that Benjmain proposed and was pushed in Pharo >> was not good because it was not modular. Now each part of the system >> should be >> defined in way that it can be set just as a setting. >> We should not have >> >> World .... >> User current = ifTrue >> >> But >> >> World use: userSetting >> >> and World should handle it. >> There is way more to do :) >> When you deploy on linux you should be able to say beSilent to the >> system (do not write on places that you cannot). >> Valentin works on it and we should continue >> >> Stef >> > > The fact that there is much more to do is the main reason for Pharo to > do it and not the developer. The developer cannot know all the system > and will not be able to protect the code of his company well because he > will forget something as to disable ctrl+o+p (or he is a god developer! > But everyone is not). > > This is a large thing to do, so it would be cool that everyone keep that > in mind to allow it little by little (as with the work of Valentin). > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > > http://www.synectique.eu > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > Lille 59000 France >

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] SmalltalkHub over https

by Max Leske

Weâve set up Letâs Encrypt on our servers and while itâs cool it also requires some work around it. Most importantly you have to set up auto renewal (every 30 days). And if you donât get it right it will suck. Also: use VPN :) > On 27 Aug 2016, at 13:07, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Time and ressources. > We cannot do more else it will damage what we are doing. > Now if somebody wants to help he is more than welcome. > > Stef >> since Let's Encrypt offers free certs, is there any reason why smalltalkhub is not yet served over https? Maybe limitation of Zinc? >> >> I guess that's one benefit that we are such a small community that nobody nuked us yet... (e.g. every time you commit from free wifi (hotel, airport, caffee, ...) you give up your password). >> >> Peter >> >> > >

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About Pharo 60

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

Le 27/08/2016 Ã 13:18, stepharo a Ã©crit : > > > YES!!! > > Do you know how Settings works? > We can adapt it this way. When I improved the deployment of Synectique Tools I asked to get a simple way to disable Spotter via a setting but I got as answer "No because you can do it by removing a global shortcut so it is not needed.". People in companies don't have the time to learn how shortcuts work and how to remove one without impacting something else. And they don't have the time to check Spotter code to know how it is call. If the image is able to have a deployment mode then I don't care how Spotter is disabled (setting or removing a shortcut). But for now we don't have it. :) > I mean the User approach that Benjmain proposed and was pushed in Pharo > was not good because it was not modular. Now each part of the system > should be > defined in way that it can be set just as a setting. > We should not have > > World .... > User current = ifTrue > > But > > World use: userSetting > > and World should handle it. > There is way more to do :) > When you deploy on linux you should be able to say beSilent to the > system (do not write on places that you cannot). > Valentin works on it and we should continue > > Stef > The fact that there is much more to do is the main reason for Pharo to do it and not the developer. The developer cannot know all the system and will not be able to protect the code of his company well because he will forget something as to disable ctrl+o+p (or he is a god developer! But everyone is not). This is a large thing to do, so it would be cool that everyone keep that in mind to allow it little by little (as with the work of Valentin). -- Cyril Ferlicot http://www.synectique.eu 165 Avenue Bretagne Lille 59000 France

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] broken GitFileTree/IceBerg on Windows because of ProcessWrapper

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Just checked and the download URL is working. If you send me mirror URLs then I can update the configuration to support multiple download locations. Cheers, HernÃ¡n 2016-08-27 5:46 GMT-03:00 Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > GitFileTree / IceBerg is now broken, because ProcessWrapper (one of the > deps on Windows) is downloading plugin from > > http://leves.web.elte.hu/ProcessWrapper/ProcessWrapperPlugin.dll > > But of course since the domain is down, it breaks everything. > > Not the mention downloading dll over http. > > Peter > >

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] About Pharo 60

by stepharo

> > Hi! > > There is one thing I would like, but maybe not for Pharo6 since there is > a lot to do, but I would like people to have this in mind: A way to > deploy commercials apps. YES!!! > > I would like to be able to say something like "Smalltalk > lockForDeployment" and "Smalltalk prepareForDeployment" for example. > > The first one could just lock the access to the image and let a way to > get them back if you have a password. The second could unload everything > that you don't want for production if you don't plan to debug the image > if there is a problem. Do you know how Settings works? We can adapt it this way. I mean the User approach that Benjmain proposed and was pushed in Pharo was not good because it was not modular. Now each part of the system should be defined in way that it can be set just as a setting. We should not have World .... User current = ifTrue But World use: userSetting and World should handle it. > At Synectique when we had a desktop application it was really hard to > lock everything :( > - Disable Halo > - Disable Spotter > - Disable the shortcuts to open a playground, a Nautilus, anything else > that the application > - Remove the private repositories and credentials just in case the > client find a way to get through and get a Monticello > - â¦ > > We should not have to do all that. Else Pharo will only be used to build > commencial web applications where the image is on the company's server > and not on the client's server. :( There is way more to do :) When you deploy on linux you should be able to say beSilent to the system (do not write on places that you cannot). Valentin works on it and we should continue Stef

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Nautilus support for class method tests, and a bugfix for test result icons not resetting when a method is modified

by stepharo

Tx Monty! Apparently Jenkins infra is dead :) Le 26/8/16 Ã 22:20, monty a Ã©crit : > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18974/ > >

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] SmalltalkHub over https

by stepharo

Time and ressources. We cannot do more else it will damage what we are doing. Now if somebody wants to help he is more than welcome. Stef > since Let's Encrypt offers free certs, is there any reason why smalltalkhub is not yet served over https? Maybe limitation of Zinc? > > I guess that's one benefit that we are such a small community that nobody nuked us yet... (e.g. every time you commit from free wifi (hotel, airport, caffee, ...) you give up your password). > > Peter > >

Aug. 27, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] broken GitFileTree/IceBerg on Windows because of ProcessWrapper

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, Just a clarification: This is because of gitfiletree. In next versions of iceberg, we will not use ProcessWrapper (or OSSubprocess). Esteban > On 27 Aug 2016, at 11:01, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Once you have the file we can mirror it on our server. > > I always think about replication but this is not always the case. > > Stef > > >> Le 27/8/16 Ã 10:46, Peter Uhnak a Ã©crit : >> Hi, >> >> GitFileTree / IceBerg is now broken, because ProcessWrapper (one of the deps on Windows) is downloading plugin from >> >> http://leves.web.elte.hu/ProcessWrapper/ProcessWrapperPlugin.dll >> >> But of course since the domain is down, it breaks everything. >> >> Not the mention downloading dll over http. >> >> Peter > >

Aug. 27, 2016