July 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News

by Johan Fabry

I was at that talk, and I am not convinced that we are at that level, we are certainly not better in my opinion. The advantage that they have is the domain-specific language on top of the parsing infrastructure which makes it easy and fast to write (at least) the demos he is showing. We donât have that and his talk showed me that it is an important thing that is missing. -- Does this mail seem too brief? Sorry for that, I donât mean to be rude! Please see http://emailcharter.org . Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > On Jul 29, 2016, at 08:38, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > When I see all the buzz around languages workbenches like Rascal: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffx7VtEOSx4 > > with MOOSE+RB+SmaCC+Reflectivity+GTools we are close to these tools > (or even better).

July 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News

by Thierry Goubier

2016-07-29 15:32 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > > On 29 Jul 2016, at 14:23, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi Sven, > > > > I'd put RB + SmaCC among the lot. But I consider that really non-trivial > : the pattern language of RB (and the underlying pattern matching and > unification algorithm) is top notch, and how SmaCC builds on RB to > virtually generate code / optimise code / then compile is nothing short of > amazing. > > > > SmaCC comes with a pattern matching/unification algorithm over ASTs + > auto-generation of AST code + visitor + tree equality + the equivalent of > Flex/Bison(*) + a GUI in 11401 lines of code. > > Well, you don't need to convince me that there is some really magic code > out there, thanks for pointing this out. People should really do more > effort to promote the stuff they like, by writing some nice accessible > article about it. (Hint, hint). > Understood :) > The problem is that even though Smalltalk itself is simple, the whole > environment, being super dynamic/flexible, is not. It scares a lot of > people that they cannot really grab and hold the code. It is only once you > get beyond that initial hurdle (which also requires you to unlearn/learn a > new approach), that you can start to explore and appreciate all the good > stuff. I am still not sure how we can make this clear to newcomers, but it > feels like a critical step. > Maybe there is a question of coding style coupled with the tools? Thierry > > > Thierry > > > > (*) And a true equivalent, with LR, LALR and GLR ! > > > > 2016-07-29 14:05 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > <Social Media Marketing> > > > > The following interesting question/thread could use some more > comments/votes: > > > > Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News > > > > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12185892 < > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12185892> > > > > Sven > > > > >

July 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 29 Jul 2016, at 14:23, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Sven, > > I'd put RB + SmaCC among the lot. But I consider that really non-trivial : the pattern language of RB (and the underlying pattern matching and unification algorithm) is top notch, and how SmaCC builds on RB to virtually generate code / optimise code / then compile is nothing short of amazing. > > SmaCC comes with a pattern matching/unification algorithm over ASTs + auto-generation of AST code + visitor + tree equality + the equivalent of Flex/Bison(*) + a GUI in 11401 lines of code. Well, you don't need to convince me that there is some really magic code out there, thanks for pointing this out. People should really do more effort to promote the stuff they like, by writing some nice accessible article about it. (Hint, hint). The problem is that even though Smalltalk itself is simple, the whole environment, being super dynamic/flexible, is not. It scares a lot of people that they cannot really grab and hold the code. It is only once you get beyond that initial hurdle (which also requires you to unlearn/learn a new approach), that you can start to explore and appreciate all the good stuff. I am still not sure how we can make this clear to newcomers, but it feels like a critical step. > Thierry > > (*) And a true equivalent, with LR, LALR and GLR ! > > 2016-07-29 14:05 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > <Social Media Marketing> > > The following interesting question/thread could use some more comments/votes: > > Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News > > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12185892 <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12185892> > > Sven >

July 29, 2016

Limbo/PharoInProgress repositories

by Serge Stinckwich

Dear all, on SquareBracketAssociates github org, I see a Limbo repo : https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoLimbo and a PharoInProgress repo: https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoInProgress Basically there are collections of chapters that are not part of any books until now. And there is also a repo called: PharoReadyForReviews https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoReadyForReviews for chapters ready for reviews but with some chapters more than 2 years old. Does it make sense to merge all these repos in one ? Having too much repos, we forget about the others ... BTW, I add a draft of a chapter regarding Continuations (in French) I wrote several years ago : https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoLimbo/blob/master/Continuat… Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

July 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Option for as-in-moose debugger layout

by Peter Uhnak

On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 01:28:57PM +0200, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > Le 27/07/2016 Ã 15:04, Denis Kudriashov a Ã©crit : > > I want it too (but I never try it). > > > > And maybe it is good time to force people taste it as default? (with > > setting to return classic one) > > > > Hi, > > At the integration it was the default but it was changed since more > people found the old way more convenient. Also nobody likes change, so naturally everyone complains.

July 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News

by Serge Stinckwich

On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sven, > > I'd put RB + SmaCC among the lot. But I consider that really non-trivial : > the pattern language of RB (and the underlying pattern matching and > unification algorithm) is top notch, and how SmaCC builds on RB to virtually > generate code / optimise code / then compile is nothing short of amazing. > > SmaCC comes with a pattern matching/unification algorithm over ASTs + > auto-generation of AST code + visitor + tree equality + the equivalent of > Flex/Bison(*) + a GUI in 11401 lines of code. SmaCC deserves definitively more advertisements and should be added to MOOSE platform I think. When I see all the buzz around languages workbenches like Rascal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffx7VtEOSx4 with MOOSE+RB+SmaCC+Reflectivity+GTools we are close to these tools (or even better). Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

July 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Sven, I'd put RB + SmaCC among the lot. But I consider that really non-trivial : the pattern language of RB (and the underlying pattern matching and unification algorithm) is top notch, and how SmaCC builds on RB to virtually generate code / optimise code / then compile is nothing short of amazing. SmaCC comes with a pattern matching/unification algorithm over ASTs + auto-generation of AST code + visitor + tree equality + the equivalent of Flex/Bison(*) + a GUI in 11401 lines of code. Thierry (*) And a true equivalent, with LR, LALR and GLR ! 2016-07-29 14:05 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > <Social Media Marketing> > > The following interesting question/thread could use some more > comments/votes: > > Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News > > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12185892 < > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12185892> > > Sven >

July 29, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/50761 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

July 29, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core] fcfdd5: 50761

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/5.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: fcfdd5f5d6b21ee6d39951dcf48b242eb1fba0a6 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/fcfdd5f5d6b21ee6d39951dc… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-07-29 (Fri, 29 Jul 2016) Changed paths: M Network-Mail.package/MailAddressTokenizer.class/class/initialization/initialize.st M Network-Tests.package/MailAddressParserTest.class/instance/tests/testAddressesIn.st A Network-Tests.package/MailAddressParserTest.class/instance/tests/testAmpersand.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50760.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50761.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50760.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50761.st M ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st A UnifiedFFI.package/LibC.class/class/fuctions/system_.st Log Message: ----------- 50761 18757 Simple Shell Command Eval for 5.0 https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18757 18676 Endless loop parsing e-mail addresses containing an ampersand https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18676 http://files.pharo.org/image/50/50761.zip

July 29, 2016

Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

<Social Media Marketing> The following interesting question/thread could use some more comments/votes: Ask HN: Examples of elegant, non-trivial Smalltalk? | Hacker News > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12185892 <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12185892> Sven

July 29, 2016