June 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Another look at the [First Impression Count] in Pharo 5

by Hilaire

Documentation always help :) What information will be helpful ? I understand now your intend: you want to encourage people to discover the Spot settings and how to write your own search plugin, so you expose the source code plugin in the settings browser description. It does not strike me, and I find your web page more helpful. But again, only my perception. Now, try to imagine the worst case scenario by playing the role of a student learning Pharo with MOOC. What information will be helpful for your given a few facts? - you already discover Spot, and find the tools pretty cool. - you learn about the Setting browser, there you discover you can toggle Spot's option. What will be useful for you to understand what does the plugings. Then, do you first want to know what does the plugin or how to write your own? May be in the settings browser, GT Spotter Extensions category, you can write a bit more about writing spotter plugin, then in each plugin entry write a human readable sentence explaining what does the plugin. After all, from the Settings browser, each entry is just one shortcut [alt]-b away. One remark, why is there both: Trait>>#spotterSuperClassMethodsFor: and Class>>#spotterSuperClassMethodsFor: The Trait one seems uneffective. Hilaire Le 05/06/2016 08:17, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > make it easier for a newcomer to comprehend? > > To get the conversation started, I put together a description of what they mean here: > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/discovering-and-managing-spotter-exte… > > What do you think? Does this clarify the problem for you? If yes, what information would be useful to have in the image to better communicate the intent? -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

June 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Another look at the [First Impression Count] in Pharo 5

by Tudor Girba

Hi Hilaire, Sorry for the delayed response. Please see my reply below. > On May 5, 2016, at 9:32 AM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > AMHO, there are some needed feedbacks on some tools. There are the most > visible I can see, where newbies will be contemplating without > understanding. > > I try to propose a tip, please *correct* it when wrong or incomplete. > > NAUTILUS > - 'Scoped'-> not sure what is the extent of the Scoped, but a proposed > tip: 'Browse in the context of the selected package/class: all nautilus > tools -- including refactoring -- will proceed only within the selected > package/class.' > - 'Format as you read' -> based on Peter suggestion: 'Autoformat code > without editing. Useful when reading some old/unformatted code.' > - 'NW/W' -> I don't know > - '+L' -> 'Toggle line number for code" > > SETTINGS BROWSERS > - There are about 100 Spotter entries without unhelpful descriptions as: > 'Trait>>#spotterReferenceFor: > spotterReferenceFor: aStep > <spotterOrder: 30> > aStep listProcessor > title: 'References'; > allCandidates: [ (SystemNavigation default allReferencesTo: self > binding) collect: #compiledMethod ]; > itemName: [ :method | method gtDisplayString ]; > filter: GTFilterSubstring' > > is it a bug or on purpose? However definitely not newbie friendly. Thanks for the input. These settings are indeed on purpose. Would you mind exchanging some more messages about this with me a bit to see what information would make it easier for a newcomer to comprehend? To get the conversation started, I put together a description of what they mean here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/discovering-and-managing-spotter-exte… What do you think? Does this clarify the problem for you? If yes, what information would be useful to have in the image to better communicate the intent? Cheers, Doru > If these settings are not relevant, may be hiding it. > > - GRAPHIC THEME > It lacks contrast, (and no there is objective measure, otherwise what is > design for) but I guess nothing much can be done. > Tooltips lost again the blue contrasting background for a grey > unconstrasting one. In the past I already fixed the Water theme from > random refactoring, it is sad to see few care on the UI: this is the > first thing newbies will notice even before reaching the deep beauty of > Pharo, they will be gone because the first impression went wrong. > > > Hilaire > > PS: > Please, don't assume because I post this review I take responsibility on > fixing it, I may or not. I really get this irritating feedback from my > feedbacks, and I don't think pressure is helpful. We are doing our best > according to our personnel life constraints. If not ok, I will shut up > for ever. > > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Some battles are better lost than fought."

June 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] d2bfc7: 60040

by Tudor Girba

Great. Congratulations! Doru > On May 27, 2016, at 12:43 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > so yes, we finally did it :) > > Esteban > >> On 27 May 2016, at 12:27, GitHub <noreply(a)github.com> wrote: >> >> 60040 >> 14605 Integrate Epicea >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14605 > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Presenting is storytelling."

June 4, 2016

got some bugs in Pharo 50

by stepharo

Just to report (I did not have the time to check in 60a) but I got red square of death with komitter. I also got NECTypedModel>>initializeSelectorsFor: aClass |excludedClasses| selectors reset. excludedClasses := (expanded ifTrue: [#()] ifFalse: [Object withAllSuperclasses]). selectors addAll: ((aClass allSelectorsWithout: excludedClasses) collect: [:each | NECSelectorEntry contents: each type: #selector]) DNU on allSelectorsWithout: with such code mostCommonlyUsedSelectors "self mostCommonlyUsedSelectors" | result | result := Bag new. environment cla ^ cursor here do: [ :each | result addAll: each selectors]. ^ result sortedCounts Stef

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Debugger is not stable

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi. 2016-06-04 18:01 GMT+02:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > I got it now > GTInspector does not open on latest stack frame but the one before and > if I scroll I get it > Yes. And step into not autoscroll stack view. I like GTDebugger. It is step forward for our tools. Now only real issue for me is horribly slow stepping. I guess each "step over" action refreshes all inspector views. I hope proposed solution for fast inspector updating could address it.

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Debugger is not stable

by Tudor Girba

Hi, We certainly want to have a bullet proof debugger. However, by looking at the selector you mention, the problem you got with the crashing debugger is almost surely reproducible with the old debugger. It is unlikely related to the GT Debugger (which is essentially a UI). The issue you mention with the stack selection is a GT Debugger issue indeed. @Andrei: let us open an issue for this and let us look again at the selection strategy for the SUnit debugger. Cheers, Doru > On Jun 4, 2016, at 6:01 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> >> I will try to reproduce it and send it to you. > > I tried and after several tries I could not reproduce the bug but I could totally freeze > the image :( > Do not ask me how. See screenshot below > > > Now I do not get it but when I put a halt like the following > > coinsFor: aValue into2: accuWallet > > | accu | > self halt. > [ > > accu := accuWallet money. > accu < aValue ] > whileTrue: [ > | big | > big := self biggest. > [ big > ((aValue - accu)) ] whileTrue: [ > big := self biggestBelow: big ]. > self removeCoin: big. > accuWallet addCoin: big ]. > ^ accuWallet > > - sometimes I cannot get it stopped there :( when running the test for coinsFor: > testCoinsForPayingWithOtherCoins for example. > > I got it now > GTInspector does not open on latest stack frame but the one before and if I scroll I get it > > <ianmjlfcejhofpgl.png> > So this one should be easy to fix. For the other one I do not know. > > > Having a robust debugger would be priority number one. > > Stef > > <hjelkjfocdmahjhd.png> > Stef -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spotter suggestions

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I promised to get back to this one. I know itâs late, but I somehow did not manage until now. I apologize. There is a bit of discrepancy between what happens during the development of GT and what is being communicated. One of the feelings that seem to come through is that the feedback is not taken into account. We think this is not quite so. As an exemplification, here is an overview of what happened as a result of this long thread: - the preview triangle in spotter is more prominent and it gets highlighted on hover - Selectors are now called Messages - there are shortcuts available for special categories like References, Implementors or Senders - when only one search category is available, the results are expanded in place - help was added with a shortcuts overview (this is just a step) - scrolling was improved. - you get buttons available on mouse over a category or an item I hope this helps a bit. Cheers, Doru > On Jan 20, 2016, at 10:39 AM, David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net> wrote: > > Since you asked to keep challengingâ¦ > > Preamble: Sorry, I did one of those long messages again. I hope I am not annoying people with that. > >> On 19 Jan 2016, at 22:40, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >>> On Jan 19, 2016, at 9:18 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 19/1/16 20:25, David Allouche a Ã©crit : >>>> BTW, thanks for the explanations for Spotter. >> >> You are welcome. Please keep challenging. This is how good design happens. >> >> >>>>> On 19 Jan 2016, at 18:37, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> And then, in Spotter we have another discovery mechanism: Shift. When you press it, all clickable things get highlighted (including the arrow). We chose Shift because it is something that you type often as part of a text, so it will be very likely that you will press it when working with Spotter as well. And this will get you to see that something happens. >>>> I am lazy and fearful of RSI. If I can avoid using the shift key at all, I am quite happy. So I did not notice that the arrows where clickable. >>> >>> :) >>> Same here. >> >> What is RSI? >> >> Most people I know use Shift to type an upper case, and we observed that when people search, they often tend to still use uppercase. Not all, but many. That is why we put this functionality on Shift. This does not mean that it is enough, but we just wanted to increase the chance of people stumbling across this without any documentation. It only partially succeeded. > > You already stated your reasoning, and I understand it. I was just making noise for people like Stef and me, who never use Shift unless they HAVE TO. >> Anyway, we should externalize the key bindings. Another thing on the to do list :) > > Sure, great! > > >>>> Here are a few suggestions that would fit my workflow. >>>> >>>> I also think that "Selectors" should appear after classes and before packages, and be called "Messages". Typically I want to open a specific class, or a specific message in a specific class. >> >> #Messages is not a bad name, but then again I also thought that #Selectors was explicit enough :). What do others think? > > Any interest in putting "Messages" after "Classes" and before "Packagesâ? > Another advantage of "Messages" is that "#m" is unambiguous. Currently, "#se" is ambiguous (#senders and #selectors), that is a serious annoyance. >>>> The short list of implementors at the top level is usually noise and might have confused Stef. It becomes relevant once the message is fully specified. >>>> >>>> Diving in should be done with right arrow when at the end of the command line. >>>> Diving out with left arrow at the start of the command line. >>> I was wondering what is the benefit to have cmd - shit arrow vs arrow >> >> Left/Right is used to move inside the text area (there is only one text field in the whole UI), and that is why you cannot consistently use it for navigating through results. >> >> Navigating when the cursor is at the end is a tempting idea, but it implies a mode that is not contextual (you need to things to look at). That is why I would not want to have it in this interface. > > Not overloading unmodified right/left arrows sounds like an obvious good idea. > > But as you already mentioned, Spotter is a special context, so one needs to take a step back to evaluate the interaction possibilities. > > Typically, in the Spotter command line, I never use left-right arrows, and I think this is common. If people mistype something, and have immediate feedback, they tend to use backspace to fix it, instead of in-line editing. > > Spotter is also very similar to a class browser like Nautilus, where left-right arrows are the primary way to dive in and out of packages, classes, protocols, methods. That makes right and left arrows intuitive to dive in and out in Spotter. > > If right and left arrows dive in and out, it's very easy to cancel a mistake, just immediately press the opposite arrow. That also means that dive-out should remember what was the search line, so immediately diving back in does not lose the previous input, as is the current behaviour. Can you fix that? > > Cmd-arrows and Cmd-shift-arrows is uncommon, and it takes a conscious effort to remember, it's not intuitive in any way. > > Cmd-arrows and Cmd-shift-arrows are slow and hard to reach combinations. They require me to move my left arm from the shoulder so left hand goes to the modifier keys corner. Reaching arrows already requires me to move my right arm so my right hand gets over the arrow pad. So every time I want to dive in or out, I need to move both arms and completely lose kinaesthetic connection with the home row. Then to continue filtering I need to find the home row again. Repetitive switching between home row and cmd-shift-arrows is frustrating at a deep, motor level. That kind of frustration leads to angry people and the Dark Side. > > One could consider using Tab and Shift-Tab instead, but that would be a bad choice. Tab should mean "autocomplete this", and in the context of Spotter you cannot overload this with navigation. (I could expand on that) > > I am not sure what you mean by "not contextual": I type some words, use up/down arrows to choose the line I want, which is often not the first one, then use right arrow to dive in. That is contextual: I am looking at the list, I already have my hand on the arrow pad, I did a vertical motion action and now I want to do an horizontal motion action. > > If you insist right-left arrow should not be overloaded in the search line, then you could use the first down arrow to move out of "command context" and into "matches context". Other actions like Enter and Backspace need not depend on the context. But I am convinced it is not necessary to make a distinction between command context and matches context. > > At the very least, I would like some reassurance that the Spotter UI machinery would make it easy for people like me to hack in the interaction behaviour they expect from arrow keys. > >>>> >>>> When a list of paginated (only first N items), then the category line should be accessible with arrows, so we can dive into a category just with arrows. >> >> We explicitly chose not to do that because we did not want to mingle different kinds of elements in the same list. So, like this, when you press Cmd+Right, you will always dive in one single element, and not in many by mistake. > > I understand that. But I think it is the wrong trade-off. > > Diving into the wrong element with right arrow is cheap, just press left arrow to dive out. That's easy to do and totally intuitive. > > To prevent a cheap, easily corrected mistake, you make one of the most common actions significantly harder. That is bad UI design, sorry to be harsh. > >> Actually, our original goal was to have a way to expand the list in place (not only to dive in category). For this we wanted a â¦ line and clicking on that would expand the list in place. We did not get to do it yet, but I think this would solve quite some of the reported problems. > > Expanding in place is a bad idea. Please do not do that. > > Categories often have dozens, sometimes hundreds of items. Once you have expanded such a category, the rest of the list is essentially lost, you need an easy way to cancel that, and that easy way is diving out. Also when you are scrolling a long expanded list, you do NOT want to scroll past the end and into another category, that would be annoying, and not useful. > > What you do need is to make it easier NOT to have browse the full categories at all. For that: > > â¢ Prefix matches should be sorted in lexicographic order of the thing being matched first, and its container second. > â¢ "items" in the top search, should show implementors only for "#items", there are a lot of them, and not things like DialogGroupManagerUI>>#itemSelected. > â¢ When a category is fully specified by #word ("items #i"), it should display the full list. There should still be the ability to dive into the category (retaining "items" in the command line), But there is NO benefit in adding a layer of indirection. > â¢ Non-prefix matches, or matches for a line containing multiple words need fuzzy search relevance sorting with history sensitivity. For exemple: > â¢ "if else" should find ifNil:else:, ifTrue:else: etc. > â¢ "m m" should find MenuMorph as one of the first results. Only other classes whose two first two words start with M should come before. > â¢ "menu morph items" should find "#Implementors: MenuMorph>>#items" > > Here's another few, unrelated, suggestion. For the top-level list: > > â¢ When the line is empty: > â¢ Display a short graphic cheat sheet. Not a wall of plain text, something pretty with boxes and small bits of text that the eye wants to read. > â¢ That should explain # words and important action keys. > â¢ That should provide a way to immediately dive into categories. > â¢ Provide an easy way to disable the cheat sheet: a button "Do not show me this" > â¢ Do not use separate lists per category, but one list with all matches, sorted by search proximity and with history sensitivity > â¢ History sensitivity here is very beneficial, it effectively lets one define custom shortcuts, by always using the same letters to reach to frequently used items. For example in Alfred on my Mac, "sl" finds "Sleep" first and "Slack" second. > â¢ Categories can be displayed again by typing a single #. > â¢ Keep the categories separated in the list after diving in, it is essential for things like senders/implementors. > > And some suggestion for all lists: > â¢ Please, please, GET RID OF VERTICAL WRAP AROUND, thanks. When I hit the bottom of the list, I want to know I got there. > â¢ When a non matching #word is typed ("#x"), the available #words should be displayed, not the empty list. > â¢ When moving into category with arrow up/down, please scroll more. If the category list is long compared to the scroller viewport, at 50-75% of the viewport should display the category I just moved in. > â¢ Scrolling should probably be a bit optimistic. Unless we are at the end of the list, the current line should never be the first or last displayed, unless the viewport is very small. > â¢ When the current category name is out of the viewport, it should stick at the top, maybe with some transparency gradient over the first item, I need to know what category I am in. It is especially important when scrolling up, after overshooting. > I hope you are familiar with Alfred (Mac only) and Sublime Text. They both provide very useful fuzzy search with history sensitivity. > >> But, please do keep challenging. And give it a try with writing your own processors. It would help us a lot. > > Right now, I keep bouncing in all sorts of bugs in other packages. So I am rather happy to just provide feedback for enhancements, so I can spend more time fixing the actual bugs. :-) > > Regards. -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."

June 4, 2016

the impact of moldability

by Tudor Girba

Hi, There were a couple of emails in the recent period that questioned the usefulness of moldability (the ability of developers to customize their tools deeply and inexpensively). More specifically, the question was about the moldability of the GTDebugger. I put together a couple of thoughts of why we think that moldability is actually a competitive advantage: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-impact-of-moldability/ Please read it and provide feedback. Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Debugger is not stable

by stepharo

> I will try to reproduce it and send it to you. I tried and after several tries I could not reproduce the bug but I could totally freeze the image :( Do not ask me how. See screenshot below Now I do not get it but when I put a halt like the following coinsFor: aValue into2: accuWallet | accu | self halt. [ accu := accuWallet money. accu < aValue ] whileTrue: [ | big | big := self biggest. [ big > ((aValue - accu)) ] whileTrue: [ big := self biggestBelow: big ]. self removeCoin: big. accuWallet addCoin: big ]. ^ accuWallet - sometimes I cannot get it stopped there :( when running the test for coinsFor: testCoinsForPayingWithOtherCoins for example. I got it now GTInspector does not open on latest stack frame but the one before and if I scroll I get it So this one should be easy to fix. For the other one I do not know. Having a robust debugger would be priority number one. Stef Stef

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Debugger is not stable

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I tried several times to reproduce this and could not. If you could get an image with the problem it would be the best case scenario. Cheers, Doru > On Jun 4, 2016, at 5:39 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Hi andrei > > >> >> Do you use a particular Wallet object? > it was in one of the tests. I put a halt into the coinFor: into2: > >> What image are you using? > Pharo5.0 > Latest update: #50759 > >> Can you fuel out and send the stack if you get this error again? > > I will try to reproduce it and send it to you. > > Stef >> >> Cheers, >> Andrei >> >> >> Stef >> PS: Yes I know I'm the stupider guy in the world because I criticise the wonderful GT tools and I should not because it is not acceptable :) >> >> >> Le 3/6/16 Ã 22:01, Andrei Chis a Ã©crit : >>> Hi Stef, >>> >>> Can you provide a way to load or access the entire code of your example? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Andrei >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 9:43 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> I'm debugging a simple algo for a first exercises in Pharo future book and I get stepToSendOrReturn >>> >>> DNU when using the debugger. :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( >>> >>> You see I would really like in Pharo that we get new tools only when there are better than the old >>> >>> ones. I still could not see how GTDebugger helps me debugging faster my programs. >>> >>> Personally the fact that GT debugger can show bytecodes or can be extended is not in the critical path. >>> >>> My critical path is that I can debug Pharo programs and now I cannot. >>> >>> I also did not see any comments on the multiple complaints about the funky place for the buttons. >>> >>> So to me GTDebugger is a disappointement. >>> >>> Here is the kind of code I'm debugging so this is not that complex nor implying concurrency or whatever complex. >>> >>> >>> coinsFor: aValue into2: accuWallet >>> >>> | accu | >>> self halt. >>> [ >>> accu := accuWallet money. >>> accu < aValue ] >>> whileTrue: [ >>> | big | >>> big := self biggest. >>> [ big > (aValue - accu) ] whileTrue: [ >>> big := self biggestBelow: big ]. >>> self removeCoin: big. >>> accuWallet addCoin: big ]. >>> ^ accuWallet >>> >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "To lead is not to demand things, it is to make them happen."

June 4, 2016