April 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

Le 08/04/2016 22:08, J.F. Rick a Ã©crit : > It looks good. I might mention that most data structures are 1 indexed > as most other languages tend to be 0 indexed and that throws people new > to the language. > I use Pharo since 1 year now and I had to use indexes only 3-4 times. I think it is more important to say that Pharo have Collections with an awesome API. -- Cyril Ferlicot http://www.synectique.eu 165 Avenue Bretagne Lille 59000 France

April 9, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by philippe.back＠highoctane.be

On Apr 9, 2016 9:54 AM, "olivier auverlot" <olivier.auverlot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I think that it could be interesting to use it also on a simple HTML page for the Pharo web site. This document can be put in the main menu ("Beginners" ?) just before "Documentation". > > It's really cool to have a synthesis document for the newcomers. I still have a little Squeak booklet that we could redo for Pharo. It was very useful when I was learning. Phil > > 2016-04-09 8:09 GMT+02:00 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com>: >> >> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > On 8 April 2016 at 22:57, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> >> >> Since we are simpler and more logical, a cheat sheet should not confuse >> >> people by describing what we are not. >> > >> > >> > I beg to disagree. "Simpler and more logical" is just your biased point of >> > view; fact is, zero-based indexing is just more widespread in programming >> > languages. >> > >> > I would be happy to be proven wrong about that, but I seriously doubt most >> > people that come to Smalltalk have never been exposed to programming before. >> > It's not unreasonable to assume that they've started programming in any one >> > of the most popular languages these days, and that that language is >> > zero-indexed. So mentioning that in Smalltalk the first element is indeed at >> > index 1 is pretty essential, if just to lift the ambiguity. >> >> +1. But to follow Sven's point exactly. We don't need to say we are >> "not 0 based", just that we are "1 based". >> >> cheers -ben >> >

April 9, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by olivier auverlot

I think that it could be interesting to use it also on a simple HTML page for the Pharo web site. This document can be put in the main menu ("Beginners" ?) just before "Documentation". It's really cool to have a synthesis document for the newcomers. 2016-04-09 8:09 GMT+02:00 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com>: > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > On 8 April 2016 at 22:57, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> > >> Since we are simpler and more logical, a cheat sheet should not confuse > >> people by describing what we are not. > > > > > > I beg to disagree. "Simpler and more logical" is just your biased point > of > > view; fact is, zero-based indexing is just more widespread in programming > > languages. > > > > I would be happy to be proven wrong about that, but I seriously doubt > most > > people that come to Smalltalk have never been exposed to programming > before. > > It's not unreasonable to assume that they've started programming in any > one > > of the most popular languages these days, and that that language is > > zero-indexed. So mentioning that in Smalltalk the first element is > indeed at > > index 1 is pretty essential, if just to lift the ambiguity. > > +1. But to follow Sven's point exactly. We don't need to say we are > "not 0 based", just that we are "1 based". > > cheers -ben > >

April 9, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by philippe.back＠highoctane.be

On Apr 9, 2016 8:11 AM, "Ben Coman" <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 8 April 2016 at 22:57, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> > >> Since we are simpler and more logical, a cheat sheet should not confuse > >> people by describing what we are not. > > > > > > I beg to disagree. "Simpler and more logical" is just your biased point of > > view; fact is, zero-based indexing is just more widespread in programming > > languages. > > > > I would be happy to be proven wrong about that, but I seriously doubt most > > people that come to Smalltalk have never been exposed to programming before. > > It's not unreasonable to assume that they've started programming in any one > > of the most popular languages these days, and that that language is > > zero-indexed. So mentioning that in Smalltalk the first element is indeed at > > index 1 is pretty essential, if just to lift the ambiguity. > > +1. But to follow Sven's point exactly. We don't need to say we are > "not 0 based", just that we are "1 based". And we do not need to know most of the time since we have a pretty decent collection API. Or for matrixes for that matter. Phil > > cheers -ben >

April 9, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by Ben Coman

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 8 April 2016 at 22:57, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> Since we are simpler and more logical, a cheat sheet should not confuse >> people by describing what we are not. > > > I beg to disagree. "Simpler and more logical" is just your biased point of > view; fact is, zero-based indexing is just more widespread in programming > languages. > > I would be happy to be proven wrong about that, but I seriously doubt most > people that come to Smalltalk have never been exposed to programming before. > It's not unreasonable to assume that they've started programming in any one > of the most popular languages these days, and that that language is > zero-indexed. So mentioning that in Smalltalk the first element is indeed at > index 1 is pretty essential, if just to lift the ambiguity. +1. But to follow Sven's point exactly. We don't need to say we are "not 0 based", just that we are "1 based". cheers -ben

April 9, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by Damien Pollet

On 8 April 2016 at 22:57, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Since we are simpler and more logical, a cheat sheet should not confuse > people by describing what we are not. I beg to disagree. "Simpler and more logical" is just your biased point of view; fact is, zero-based indexing is just more widespread in programming languages. I would be happy to be proven wrong about that, but I seriously doubt most people that come to Smalltalk have never been exposed to programming before. It's not unreasonable to assume that they've started programming in any one of the most popular languages these days, and that that language is zero-indexed. So mentioning that in Smalltalk the first element is indeed at index 1 is pretty essential, if just to lift the ambiguity. -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet

April 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 08 Apr 2016, at 22:08, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: > > It looks good. I might mention that most data structures are 1 indexed as most other languages tend to be 0 indexed and that throws people new to the language. Actually the others are wrong ;-) Seriously, in Mathematics 1 based indexing is normal, remember vectors, matrices, series, ... Normal people (non computer nerds, the 99%) talk about the first element with number 1. Since we are simpler and more logical, a cheat sheet should not confuse people by describing what we are not. > On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 3:58 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > new cheatsheet for Pharo syntax. > Any feedback is welcome > > Stef

April 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by Hilaire

Thanks great. As we are looking language cheatsheet, a few minutes ago, I was reading an old news[1] about OCaml[2], here its cheatsheet[3]. It is said to be a great language, supported by INRIA as well, with strong type. But Pharo makes me fell more comfortable when complexity need to be handled. Hilaire [1] http://linuxfr.org/redaction/news/ocaml-4-03 [2] http://ocaml.org/ [3] http://www.ocamlpro.com/files/ocaml-lang.pdf Le 08/04/2016 21:56, stepharo a Ã©crit : > new cheatsheet for Pharo syntax. -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by J.F. Rick

It looks good. I might mention that most data structures are 1 indexed as most other languages tend to be 0 indexed and that throws people new to the language. On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 3:58 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > new cheatsheet for Pharo syntax. > Any feedback is welcome > > Stef >

April 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new pharo cheatsheet

by Cyril Ferlicot Delbecque

On 08/04/2016 21:56, stepharo wrote: > new cheatsheet for Pharo syntax. > Any feedback is welcome Hi, The screen seems to be from Pharo 1 no? > > Stef -- Cyril Ferlicot http://www.synectique.eu 165 Avenue Bretagne Lille 59000 France

April 8, 2016