April 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo 5] Some feedbacks

by Hilaire

Le 25/04/2016 13:58, Peter UhnÃ¡k a Ã©crit : > Some comments > >> Font size is ridiculous! Make it at minimum 12 for the permanent > visual elements > > This is subjectiveâ¦ I am even considering making the size smaller for > myself (after all, in Pharo 4 it was size 9). I think it is more a question of usability based on the average wished font size. So all in all the choice of font size can be done objectively although font size wish is subjective. Some people will want 9, other 14 or 16. The average is likely in between. > >> Line numbers: where is it used, not in the system browser > > This is disabled by default, so it shouldn't be a problem. UI noise, but not a big deal. > >> "Format as you read" -> what is tooltips good for? > > This is autoformatting without the need to reformat the code yourself, > very useful if you are reading some old/unformatted codebase. > > For example open Morph>>acceptDroppingMorph:event: and click on the > button â it will reformat the code without changing the code itself. => Tooltips needed. >> AST navigation: what is it? I don't understand its description. What > nodes? > > Do we really need a block of text of description for everything? If you > know what AST is then it is pretty self-explanatory. If you don't know > what AST is then the option has no value for you, because the navigation > would be random. > >> Nautilis: where is the local senders tools? > > You need to scope your view (top left corner button "Scoped") Oh great to know what does "Scoped". The tooltips of the "Scoped" button is therefore not helping as there is no useful information: "Browse scoped the selected packages" One can check at Dr. Geo what useful tips mean: Most of its tools come with 3 or even 4 lines tips (see screenshot example) When people add UI element, great care is need in the description. I guess professional software company have people to review it all. >> Spotter > Why Ctrl+[->]? my intuition tells me [->] as indicated by the blue icon > arrow, please fix it! > > Because -> and <- is already taken. Pretty much any shortcut in the > system has ctrl/alt/command in it, so I don't see why this only thing in > the entire system should be different. You can also hover over the > button to see the shortcut. Indeed <- and -> is used to edit the text search but keyboard focus can open the use of <- -> for navigation. Not being able to use -> is counter intuitive. > Not to mention that you have two different right arrows (ctrl+right, > ctrl+shift+right), so just because you immediately see one use case > doesn't mean that it's the only one/best one. There was A LOT of > discussion on the mailing list regarding Spotter's usability and shortcuts. It is inconsistent: why no need of Ctrl for up and down, but a need for it for left and right. > >> Playground > Why Ctrl+shift+g to open a pane, looks like Ctrl+g is working. > Nevertheless Ctrl+g is not very handy short cut, it hurts the fingers! > Can it be changed? > > Because it's not the same. do-it-all-and-go (ctrl+shift+g) executes all > the code and inspects it in the next pane, while ctrl+g (do-it-and-go) > just the selected block/current line. ok. But Ctrl+g is really really not fingers friendly for a short cut you will use very often. See screenshot, there is so much tension in the three fingers when doing it. It is torture and I can tell you my hands are large celtic ones. I guess you need two hands to use comfortably this shortcut. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] XMLParser changes

by monty

All preservesIgnorableWhitespace: does now is preserve whitespace as string nodes in elements of type element content as indicated by a DTD with ELEMENT declarations that restricts their content to elements. That's why toggling the setting didn't do anything for you when you parsed a doc with no DTD and ELEMENT declarations (I will adapt the #ignorableWhitespace: comment for #preservesIgnorableWhitespace: to explain this more). > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 at 6:55 AM > From: "Cyril Ferlicot Delbecque" <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> > To: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] XMLParser changes > > > > On 25/04/2016 12:30, Norbert Hartl wrote: > > > It is right. There is no characters to be skipped. These must all resolve to text nodes with the whitespace characters in it. The behaviour of the new version is correct. So if you indent XML documents you might change the structure. The property should give control over that behaviour is called PreserveWhiteSpace. > > > > Norbert > > > > Ok thank you. > Now I need to find how to disable it. :) > I tried > > ((XMLDOMParser on: '<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> >  > <Clones> > <ClonedFragment cloneName="test"> > <Member fileName="ProgramA"/> > <Member fileName="ProgramB"/> > </ClonedFragment> > <ClonedFragment cloneName="test2"> > <Member fileName="ProgramA"/> > <Member fileName="ProgramB"/> > </ClonedFragment> > </Clones>') preservesIgnorableWhitespace: false; parseDocument) elements > first nodes > > but I still get the whitespaces. > > I did not do a lot of XML parsing, someone knows how to remove easily > all the whitespaces nodes in a document? > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > > http://www.synectique.eu > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > Lille 59000 France > >

April 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] XMLParser changes

by monty

It's not a regression (see the changelog or the new comment in #ignorableWhitespace:). This is the correct behavior required by the spec, is long-overdue, and is also the way other parsers like libxml2 behave. >From Sec. 2.10: "An XML processor MUST always pass all characters in a document that are not markup through to the application. A validating XML processor MUST also inform the application which of these characters constitute white space appearing in element content." The "white space appearing in element content" is the only whitespace the spec treats as ignorable, but the definition of "element content" requires validation and a DTD with ELEMENT declarations that restrict its content to elements. >From sec. 3.2.1: "An element type has element content when elements of that type MUST contain only child elements (no character data), optionally separated by white space." so these are of type element content: <!ELEMENT a (b,c,d)> <!ELEMENT a (b|c)> <!ELEMENT a (b+,c*)> but these aren't: <!ELEMENT a (#PCDATA|b|c)*> <!ELEMENT a ANY> <!ELEMENT a EMPTY> And if the parser is non-validating (or in our case, if you disable it) or there's no DTD, then all whitespace must be assumed to be non-ignorable. > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 at 6:14 AM > From: "Cyril Ferlicot Delbecque" <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> > To: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> > Subject: XMLParser changes > > Hi, > > last week there was a new stable version of XMLParser and some tests > broke in some tools. I think that there was a regression in this version. > > Snippet: > > (XMLDOMParser parse: '<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> >  > <Clones> > <ClonedFragment cloneName="test"> > <Member fileName="ProgramA"/> > <Member fileName="ProgramB"/> > </ClonedFragment> > <ClonedFragment cloneName="test2"> > <Member fileName="ProgramA"/> > <Member fileName="ProgramB"/> > </ClonedFragment> > </Clones>') elements first nodes > > With the release 2.7.4 we get 2 nodes but in release 2.7.6 we get 5 > nodes. The 2 previous ones and 3 empty String nodes. > > I think this is not what we expect. Correct me if I am wrong :) > > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > > http://www.synectique.eu > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > Lille 59000 France > >

April 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo 5] Some feedbacks

by Hilaire

Nice to read, I was using the DrGeo configuration to install Gettext. SO I guess Joan get it right. Hilaire Le 25/04/2016 13:39, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > thanks for your feedback, Hilaire. > yes, some of that needs to be fixed, some others (the subjective ones), can't :) -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo 5] Some feedbacks

by Hilaire

I don't feel bad about it (okay, I have not started a developer experience with it). It is nice but the quality in the system is irregular. Well written tooltips and descriptions can really improve the newbies experience. Hilaire Le 25/04/2016 13:28, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > Yes, same feel here. > > Adding to it the fact that the debugger has freezes and weird behavior > (I've a hard time following the flow). > > Maybe the initial 5.0 will be feature packed and the summer release will > be honed tools wise. > > It is a massive release in terms of what it achieves and I think that we > shouldn't expect rock solid stuff for this one... > > But this looks like the price to pay for going forward. > > I'll port my codebase it 5.0 but not for any production grade at this time. > Complaining will not get things better, so, I hope to be able to > contribute some feedback and associated fixes. > > You are right that experienced users can also be very surprised (I am). > Newcomers will have quite a hard time indeed. > > Maybe Pharo 5.0 beta would be a good name for the release... > > Phil -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Collection with spatiotemporal indexation - Ideas and discussions ?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2016-04-23 14:29 GMT-03:00 CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Esteban, > > Thanks a lot, I think Iâll try your History package, it seems to be a very good starting point (instead of hacking it myself). > Iâll try it soon. > > Thanks for all the information ;) Feel free to modify it if you want, as long as you preserve it's original output, of course :) Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

April 25, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/50713 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

April 25, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core] ec0ce8: 50713

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/5.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: ec0ce80593c991dbc900be6a682637253d92e73c https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/ec0ce80593c991dbc900be6a… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-04-25 (Mon, 25 Apr 2016) Changed paths: M ConfigurationOfVersionner.package/ConfigurationOfVersionner.class/instance/symbolic versions/stable_.st A ConfigurationOfVersionner.package/ConfigurationOfVersionner.class/instance/versions/version21311_.st M PragmaCollector.package/PragmaCollector.class/definition.st A PragmaCollector.package/PragmaCollector.class/instance/accessing/announcing.st M PragmaCollector.package/PragmaCollector.class/instance/subscription/announce_.st M PragmaCollector.package/PragmaCollector.class/instance/system changes/noMoreAnnounceWhile_.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50712.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50713.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50712.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50713.st M ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M Shout.package/SHRBTextStyler.class/instance/private/privateStyle_.st A Versionner-Core-DependenciesModel.package/MTDependency.class/instance/comparing/%3C=.st M Versionner-Core-DependenciesModel.package/MTProject.class/instance/private/dependenciesFilteredBy_.st M Versionner-Spec-Browser.package/VersionnerSpecBrowser.class/class/icons/configurationChangedIcon.st M Versionner-Spec-Browser.package/VersionnerSpecBrowser.class/class/icons/configurationLoadedIcon.st M Versionner-Tests-Core-DependenciesModel.package/MCModel2MTModelVisitorTest.class/instance/private/checkRequiredProjects_.st Log Message: ----------- 50713 18062 Infinite cycle when saving a method with a pragma https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18062 18058 fix icons in Versionner and sort dependencies https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18058 18075 SHRBTextStyler workspace mode doesnt work https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18075 http://files.pharo.org/image/50/50713.zip

April 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo 5] Some feedbacks

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Some comments > Font size is ridiculous! Make it at minimum 12 for the permanent visual elements This is subjectiveâ¦ I am even considering making the size smaller for myself (after all, in Pharo 4 it was size 9). > Line numbers: where is it used, not in the system browser This is disabled by default, so it shouldn't be a problem. > "Format as you read" -> what is tooltips good for? This is autoformatting without the need to reformat the code yourself, very useful if you are reading some old/unformatted codebase. For example open Morph>>acceptDroppingMorph:event: and click on the button â it will reformat the code without changing the code itself. > AST navigation: what is it? I don't understand its description. What nodes? Do we really need a block of text of description for everything? If you know what AST is then it is pretty self-explanatory. If you don't know what AST is then the option has no value for you, because the navigation would be random. > Nautilis: where is the local senders tools? You need to scope your view (top left corner button "Scoped") > Spotter Why Ctrl+[->]? my intuition tells me [->] as indicated by the blue icon arrow, please fix it! Because -> and <- is already taken. Pretty much any shortcut in the system has ctrl/alt/command in it, so I don't see why this only thing in the entire system should be different. You can also hover over the button to see the shortcut. Not to mention that you have two different right arrows (ctrl+right, ctrl+shift+right), so just because you immediately see one use case doesn't mean that it's the only one/best one. There was A LOT of discussion on the mailing list regarding Spotter's usability and shortcuts. > Playground Why Ctrl+shift+g to open a pane, looks like Ctrl+g is working. Nevertheless Ctrl+g is not very handy short cut, it hurts the fingers! Can it be changed? Because it's not the same. do-it-all-and-go (ctrl+shift+g) executes all the code and inspects it in the next pane, while ctrl+g (do-it-and-go) just the selected block/current line. > When do-it-all-and-go, the meta pane does not look nice: there are sliders but there is enough place What extra space? The bottom half is for the selected method. > Image is now 47.7MB and it does not shrink! Big fat boy :) This is a known bug in Pharo. Peter On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > Hi, > > While giving a try to Pharo5, I wrote some notes about how it fells. > It may be useful to share it. Of course it is also very opinionated and > may be rude. But no offense to consider, really. > > More time is need for a real developer experience, may be later. > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu >

April 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo 5] Some feedbacks

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, thanks for your feedback, Hilaire. yes, some of that needs to be fixed, some others (the subjective ones), can't :) first answer: in a side project, Iâm loading Gettext like this: gettext: spec spec project: 'Gettext' with: [ spec className: 'ConfigurationOfGettext'; versionString: #stable; repository: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/PharoExtras/Gettext/main' ]. and it is working fine (bah, is loading fine and generating po files fineâ¦ I did not test further). cheers, Esteban > On 25 Apr 2016, at 12:16, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > Hi, > > While giving a try to Pharo5, I wrote some notes about how it fells. > It may be useful to share it. Of course it is also very opinionated and > may be rude. But no offense to consider, really. > > More time is need for a real developer experience, may be later. > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > <Pharo5-Review.txt>

April 25, 2016