March 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN][Bloc] February report

by Dimitris Chloupis

I heard that you made several braking backward compatibility changes to Bloc, is there a timeline or roadmap when the specification of the API will stabilize so we can use it without the fear of our GUIs stop working because Bloc brakes backward compatibility ? On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 1:36 PM Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all > > Today is sunday meaning that we should make a monthly report on what > happened in Bloc in February. > > - BlLinearLayout (stack layout + proportional layout) > > - Uses gtExample for examples and tests: BlLinearLayoutExamples > - Has extensive class docs and method docs. Still some methods are > missing docs. > - Has "book" chapter (more info below) > > - Integration with OS-Window > > - Finally works, really fast. > - Events do not work as expected because of > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17757 > > - Unified shape scaling behaviour. > > - By default shape scales to fill BlElement's extent. > - Supports different resizing strategies. > - Started "book" chapter > > - Added documentation to various parts of Bloc > > - Still there are a lot of places not covered with docs. > - Also we auto-generate "book" chapters from bloc example classes. In > attachment you can find linear-layout and not finished shape chapter. > > > *Future* > > - Bloc presentation on PharoDays2016 <http://pharodays2016.pharo.org> > > - 01 April 2016 > - 11:05â11:25 Bloc: Towards a vector-based GUI > > - Working on > > - Grid layout (all rules above apply, docs + tests + chapter) > - Bloc tests > - Documentation > > > Cheers, > Alex > >

March 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)

by Dimitris Chloupis

Sorry guys but I dont think this is non sense because you may be coding in Pharo and Smalltalk for a long time, but as a beginner I was confused by this, and to this day I am still confused why Pharo is not calling itself a modern implementation of Smalltalk. Even in Pharo by Example there was no mention at all the Pharo is a Squeak fork, nothing, now there is (few week before) , guess who added it. No mention about Squeak in our website whatsoever. Why ? Do we just fork and forget about them ? Also this whole guilt about the so called "failure" or "death" of smalltalk is hilarious. Smalltalk was never popular and we certainly wont be with Pharo, because in the end its very unfamiliar and most coders dont like going outside their comfort zone. Personally I am fine with that but this is why I use Pharo to get outside my comfort zone and think outside the box, but I dont kid myself, I belong to a tiny minority. I am sorry if you feel that we derail the thread, but some of us feel very uncomfortable by some people trying to mislead newcomers that Pharo will at some point brake away from Smalltalk heritage when we all know that wont happen for the following reasons 1) Smalltalk is an awesome language and its failure to become popular has nothing to do with the IDE and the language and more to do with lack of libraries, documentation and third party tool support plus of course the all important familiarity b) Most likely a ton of Squeak and older Smalltalk code will remain in Pharo because none sane enough would removed code that has stood the test of time, is well designed and works c) Even if you have a tiny sense or realism you will realize that the reason why people use Pharo is because is a modern implementation of smalltalk, trying to connect with modern technologies but at same time remaining a smalltalk in the core. And finally lets take into account that all languages are evolving. I was coding C++ till 1996 and was very frustrated with the language, manual memory management, inflexible type system, horrible GUI libraries (MFC). Now I learn C++ 11 which means an almost fully dynamic type systems (see auto , templates etc) , automatic memory management (smart pointers), vast array of greatly design GUI and graphics libraries (QT, Unreal, GTK etc). In 20 years C++ has become night and day, sure still much more ugly than Pharo but far, far better . Did we stop calling it C++ ? I totally agree, that this discussion arises few time per year and in the end we dont agree. But I dont post here to make you change your mind, I know people rarely do that, I post here because I want to make crystal to begineers viewing this mailing that for me and many others: *Pharo IS Smalltalk, Pharo IS a Squeak fork, Pharo is a modern implementation that tries to push forward but respects its heritage and pays credit to it. * Saying that if this numpy variant library intends to target only Pharo then it makes more sense to call it SciPharo. On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:30 PM Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> wrote: > +100 > > > On 06.03.2016 09:48, stepharo wrote: > > Why Pharo is not smalltalk and will not be Smalltalk > > - First because we make it to free us from the past. > > - In the future we want that people that learned smalltalk in the 90 > do not discard Pharo because > > - "what killed smalltalk was that we could not work well > in team" > - "smalltalk oh it does not scale" > - "I cannot edit my code with emacs" > - "oh back in 1993 I got lecture and the system took 10 > min to boot on our sparc (I got this story yesterday)" > - I did not get how you work in team > - "with Smalltalk you cannot save your code in svn" > - "Smalltalk is monolithic" > - "you are in a cage you cannot interact with the outside > world" a guy organising OOPSLA > - "Smalltalk what a dated name! bavardage: tu programmes > en bavardage, donc les resultats ne doivent pas > etre si super que cela...." > > I do not care that these statements are right or wrong. > I do not care that people are ignorant. And yes with some education we can > show that they are wrong. > There are in the mind of people that got in touch with Smalltalk. > No more no less. > > So may be Smalltalkers should read book about marketing in general. > > So you are stuck in your history and I'm dreaming about the future: and > the future is Pharo not Smalltalk. Face it. > There will be no renewal of Smalltalk. Pharo is the chance for Smalltalk > to exist in 2050. > The future is much more important that the history. > > You do not make people dreaming telling them that back in the 1940 you add > to cross the street to fetch water. > > > > > left blank on purpose > > > > Le 5/3/16 18:22, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : > > Stef, > > On Mar 5, 2016, at 12:10 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > You probably leave in a protected environment but I do not live in the > same. > Did you check numPy recently or R? momemtum? > Do you think that people do not know how to count? > In 1980 my students were not even born, so how can it be better than > python, java, c#, lua, ... > > Do you think that it makes me happy to see my old friends leaving our > language and do node.js. > Seriously. > Why do you blame me? Frankly tell to leave Pharo and I will leave. I can > tell you. > I think that I need a break in my life in this moment so it would be a > good opportunity. > Because if each time I do something to improve the wealth and visibility > of our system > I get such kind of feedback then may be this is the time to do something. > Afterall I may be wrong. > Seriously if you think that I'm not doing a good job and you want to stay > with old friends > just let me know. but if I stay then do not tell me that I'm an asshole > that does not want to > promote smalltalk. > > > I do not blame you. I am offended by Pharo disavowing the Smalltalk > name. I am offended when people state Pharo is not Smalltalk. I want to > refute false assumptions about the name Smalltalk, such as the equating > it with cobol. Instead of taking it personally why don't you address my > points about older programming languages whose names (AFAICT) are not > perceived negatively? > > > I support this community and am excited to participate in it. I admire > and respect your efforts, StÃ©phane, in developing, organizing and > supporting this community. But that does not mean I will keep quiet about > something I profoundly disagree with and think is wrong. And that thing is > to deny Pharo is Smalltalk. > > And I do this not because I am a zealot, but because words meaning are > important, because to understand each other we should call a spade a spade, > and because I am grateful for and delighted by this thing called Smalltalk, > and I will not support taking credit away from it. Ruby is inspired by > Smalltalk. Pharo is the real thing. > > Stef > > Le 5/3/16 02:18, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : > > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:08 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> >> SciPharo? Not so great news from my POV. >> What is so much pharo specific in this library? >> Is Smalltalk scientific community large enough for yet another split? >> >> Split of what? Let us be tagged with a name of 1980 and die in peace. Yes >> this looks like a >> smart move. >> There are just Python and R and Javascript around (not talking about ruby >> and swift) >> so this is a great move. We are not the cobol of object-oriented >> programming!! >> > > When I read sentiments like this it makes me want to leave the community. > I find it so offensive that the Pharo community uses Smalltalk but wants to > distance itself. It feels like theft or massive disrespect for the > inventors of the language, or a complete lack of gratitude. > > C is older than Smalltalk and no one says "C is the cobol of low-level > imperative languages". List is much older than C but no one wants to > rename Lisp because it is perceived as old. > > Smalltalk is a beautiful name, carefully chosen to differentiate and > identify the system as different, not arrogant, not hieroglyphic. Further, > Smalltalkl /is/ different and distinctive materially. Why anyone would be > ashamed of that incredible heritage and pervasive influence is beyond me. > > Offended, > Eliot > > > > > >

March 6, 2016

[ANN][Bloc] February report

by Aliaksei Syrel

Hi all Today is sunday meaning that we should make a monthly report on what happened in Bloc in February. - BlLinearLayout (stack layout + proportional layout) - Uses gtExample for examples and tests: BlLinearLayoutExamples - Has extensive class docs and method docs. Still some methods are missing docs. - Has "book" chapter (more info below) - Integration with OS-Window - Finally works, really fast. - Events do not work as expected because of https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17757 - Unified shape scaling behaviour. - By default shape scales to fill BlElement's extent. - Supports different resizing strategies. - Started "book" chapter - Added documentation to various parts of Bloc - Still there are a lot of places not covered with docs. - Also we auto-generate "book" chapters from bloc example classes. In attachment you can find linear-layout and not finished shape chapter. *Future* - Bloc presentation on PharoDays2016 <http://pharodays2016.pharo.org> - 01 April 2016 - 11:05â11:25 Bloc: Towards a vector-based GUI - Working on - Grid layout (all rules above apply, docs + tests + chapter) - Bloc tests - Documentation Cheers, Alex

March 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Bloc] content vs contents

by Dimitris Chloupis

Greek here, but in this case of Bloc if you intent to return a collection it will be better to use "contents" , other than that Stuart explanation is perfect. Even for a book we say "table of contents". "Content" is used to refer to a single item or the uniform structure or a collection of items as a whole than individual parts. So it depends 100% from the context and your intention of explanation. On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 1:05 PM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 5:20 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Hi native english speaker > > > > what is the best content or contents? > > Actually I couldn't say off hand. It depends on the context and I > can't think of a specific rule. I can only present a few examples. > > The contents of the box. > The content of the book - but the book has a Table Of Contents. > > Probably just best to refer to the experts: "grammar content versus > contents" > > http://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/content-or-contents > > http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/13556/content-or-contents > > http://blogg.lnu.se/english-language-blog/blog/maria/content-and-contents/ > > cheers -ben > >

March 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Bloc] content vs contents

by Ben Coman

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 5:20 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi native english speaker > > what is the best content or contents? Actually I couldn't say off hand. It depends on the context and I can't think of a specific rule. I can only present a few examples. The contents of the box. The content of the book - but the book has a Table Of Contents. Probably just best to refer to the experts: "grammar content versus contents" http://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/content-or-contents http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/13556/content-or-contents http://blogg.lnu.se/english-language-blog/blog/maria/content-and-contents/ cheers -ben

March 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Starting to add class comment and test on BlElements

by Esteban Lorenzano

+1 > On 06 Mar 2016, at 09:09, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > +1 > > Stef > > Le 5/3/16 18:59, Aliaksei Syrel a Ã©crit : >> Documentation != checking of contract. >> All assertions can be removed from code easily with simple script when bloc will be released (or another solution will be found). Assertions really slowdown everything. >> Until version 1.0 bloc will have assertion and duplication in documentation. >> >> Cheers, >> Alex > >

March 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Bloc] content vs contents

by Stuart Herring

It depends on whether or not you expect the content(s) to be an uncountable mass, or discrete items. Contents is probably best when not sure. You would talk about the contents of a box, but the content of an article. You could also talk about the contents of an article without raising too many eyebrows, but the content of a box would be odd. Regards, Stuart On 6 March 2016 at 20:20, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi native english speaker > > what is the best content or contents? > > Stef >

March 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] For future version of Spotter

by Tudor Girba

Hi, This is on the todo list, but I would rather want to have that in settings with a button. I did not check if this is possible yet. Does anyone know if it is? Cheers, Doru > On Mar 6, 2016, at 10:53 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Add a menu doing > > GTSpotter cleanUp. > GTSpotter dontShowPreview > > Stef > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Every thing should have the right to be different."

March 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)

by Volkert

+100 On 06.03.2016 09:48, stepharo wrote: > Why Pharo is not smalltalk and will not be Smalltalk > > - First because we make it to free us from the past. > > - In the future we want that people that learned smalltalk in the > 90 do not discard Pharo because > > - "what killed smalltalk was that we could not work > well in team" > - "smalltalk oh it does not scale" > - "I cannot edit my code with emacs" > - "oh back in 1993 I got lecture and the system took > 10 min to boot on our sparc (I got this story yesterday)" > - I did not get how you work in team > - "with Smalltalk you cannot save your code in svn" > - "Smalltalk is monolithic" > - "you are in a cage you cannot interact with the > outside world" a guy organising OOPSLA > - "Smalltalk what a dated name! bavardage: tu > programmes en bavardage, donc les resultats ne doivent pas > etre si super que cela...." > > I do not care that these statements are right or wrong. > I do not care that people are ignorant. And yes with some education we > can show that they are wrong. > There are in the mind of people that got in touch with Smalltalk. > No more no less. > > So may be Smalltalkers should read book about marketing in general. > > So you are stuck in your history and I'm dreaming about the future: > and the future is Pharo not Smalltalk. Face it. > There will be no renewal of Smalltalk. Pharo is the chance for > Smalltalk to exist in 2050. > The future is much more important that the history. > > You do not make people dreaming telling them that back in the 1940 you > add to cross the street to fetch water. > > > > >> left blank on purpose >> >> >> >> Le 5/3/16 18:22, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : >>> Stef, >>> >>> On Mar 5, 2016, at 12:10 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> You probably leave in a protected environment but I do not live in >>>> the same. >>>> Did you check numPy recently or R? momemtum? >>>> Do you think that people do not know how to count? >>>> In 1980 my students were not even born, so how can it be better than >>>> python, java, c#, lua, ... >>>> >>>> Do you think that it makes me happy to see my old friends leaving >>>> our language and do node.js. >>>> Seriously. >>>> Why do you blame me? Frankly tell to leave Pharo and I will leave. >>>> I can tell you. >>>> I think that I need a break in my life in this moment so it would >>>> be a good opportunity. >>>> Because if each time I do something to improve the wealth and >>>> visibility of our system >>>> I get such kind of feedback then may be this is the time to do >>>> something. >>>> Afterall I may be wrong. >>>> Seriously if you think that I'm not doing a good job and you want >>>> to stay with old friends >>>> just let me know. but if I stay then do not tell me that I'm an >>>> asshole that does not want to >>>> promote smalltalk. >>> >>> I do not blame you. I am offended by Pharo disavowing the Smalltalk >>> name. I am offended when people state Pharo is not Smalltalk. I >>> want to refute false assumptions about the name Smalltalk, such as >>> the equating it with cobol. Instead of taking it personally why >>> don't you address my points about older programming languages whose >>> names (AFAICT) are not perceived negatively? >>> >>> >>> I support this community and am excited to participate in it. I >>> admire and respect your efforts, StÃ©phane, in developing, organizing >>> and supporting this community. But that does not mean I will keep >>> quiet about something I profoundly disagree with and think is wrong. >>> And that thing is to deny Pharo is Smalltalk. >>> >>> And I do this not because I am a zealot, but because words meaning >>> are important, because to understand each other we should call a >>> spade a spade, and because I am grateful for and delighted by this >>> thing called Smalltalk, and I will not support taking credit away >>> from it. Ruby is inspired by Smalltalk. Pharo is the real thing. >>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> Le 5/3/16 02:18, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:08 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> SciPharo? Not so great news from my POV. >>>>>> What is so much pharo specific in this library? >>>>>> Is Smalltalk scientific community large enough for yet >>>>>> another split? >>>>> Split of what? Let us be tagged with a name of 1980 and die in >>>>> peace. Yes this looks like a >>>>> smart move. >>>>> There are just Python and R and Javascript around (not talking >>>>> about ruby and swift) >>>>> so this is a great move. We are not the cobol of >>>>> object-oriented programming!! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> When I read sentiments like this it makes me want to leave the >>>>> community. I find it so offensive that the Pharo community uses >>>>> Smalltalk but wants to distance itself. It feels like theft or >>>>> massive disrespect for the inventors of the language, or a >>>>> complete lack of gratitude. >>>>> >>>>> C is older than Smalltalk and no one says "C is the cobol of >>>>> low-level imperative languages". List is much older than C but no >>>>> one wants to rename Lisp because it is perceived as old. >>>>> >>>>> Smalltalk is a beautiful name, carefully chosen to differentiate >>>>> and identify the system as different, not arrogant, not >>>>> hieroglyphic. Further, Smalltalkl /is/ different and distinctive >>>>> materially. Why anyone would be ashamed of that incredible >>>>> heritage and pervasive influence is beyond me. >>>>> >>>>> Offended, >>>>> Eliot >>>> >> >

March 6, 2016

Spotter and parent file directory

by stepharo

Hi Doru/Andrei I just produced a video on using spotter for files/dir navigation. Cool Here is my feedback - why don't we get dir when we request files? - I tried ./../ #files :) Would be nice to have it - I'm spoiled with Spotter I tried to navigate a mcz file :) any taker to get the contents of the file displayed Stef

March 6, 2016