March 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by Dimitris Chloupis

Its not your fault that: a) Git has far better documentation b) Git has clear commands that leave little ambiguity to how the versioning works c) Git GUIs are light years ahead of Monticello d) Git supports versioning any file and not just code e) Github does not brake down every other day and it comes also with great documentation, awesome features and incredible flexibility f) Git and Github support an incredible amount of languages and most importantly projects that use multiple languages g) Git can run circles around Pharo versioning in terms of performance h) Git does not have to contact a million websites to do a single commit Just send those students to me, I will apologize On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 11:56 PM Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > > > On 10 Mar 2016, at 22:14, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > wrote: > > > >> - it was reallllly hard to register a project on smalltalkhub just > after we created an account. > >> This already happened to me during the open-devs. > >> So this is a really big show stopper for the mooc. Because people will > gave up just after the first lecture :( > > > > The situation will be much easier I hope once git is well supportedâ¦ > > If they know git - yes. Otherwise git is very complicated. But at least we > will be able to say that this is not our fault. > > Uko > > > > >> - we should really rename Class>>name: into setClassName: > >> students were manipulating object with name such as state of state > machine and one wrote > >> > >> State name: 'A' and just rename the class and broke the system. > > > > I have just created an issue: > > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17798/Rename-Class-name-into-setClassName > > > > Alexandre > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > >

March 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by phil＠highoctane.be

Smalltalkhub is nice but it is based on Amber for its frontend and an old version at that. Not sure that it is the easiest thing in the world to maintain. Maybe it could be redone as a Seaside app with a couple of jQuery enhancements. On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 11:16 PM, Chris Cunningham <cunningham.cb(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com > > wrote: > >> > - it was reallllly hard to register a project on smalltalkhub just >> after we created an account. >> > This already happened to me during the open-devs. >> > So this is a really big show stopper for the mooc. Because people will >> gave up just after the first lecture :( >> >> The situation will be much easier I hope once git is well supportedâ¦ >> > > which is probably why smalltalkhub is in the state it is - works fairly > well, but who wants to put time into improving it when we are actively > moving away from it? > > Bummer. > -cbc >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by phil＠highoctane.be

You'd be surprise at how little people know in some places. On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 11:04 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > If they know git - yes. Otherwise git is very complicated. But at least we >> will be able to say that this is not our fault. >> > > Software students not knowing git in this day and ageâ¦ is just sad. > > Git can get very complicated if you are going very deep, but then again > that's true for any powerful tool, language, or system. >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by phil＠highoctane.be

SmalltalkHub looks like to have issues. e.g. Hilaire not being able to access the Mold project despite being a contributor. Removing/adding him didn't change much to the situation. We need to have more resources focusing on it as this is now a key part of our infrastructure. Phil On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:14 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > - it was reallllly hard to register a project on smalltalkhub just after > we created an account. > > This already happened to me during the open-devs. > > So this is a really big show stopper for the mooc. Because people will > gave up just after the first lecture :( > > The situation will be much easier I hope once git is well supportedâ¦ > > > - we should really rename Class>>name: into setClassName: > > students were manipulating object with name such as state of state > machine and one wrote > > > > State name: 'A' and just rename the class and broke the system. > > I have just created an issue: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17798/Rename-Class-name-into-setClassName > > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by Chris Cunningham

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > - it was reallllly hard to register a project on smalltalkhub just after > we created an account. > > This already happened to me during the open-devs. > > So this is a really big show stopper for the mooc. Because people will > gave up just after the first lecture :( > > The situation will be much easier I hope once git is well supportedâ¦ > which is probably why smalltalkhub is in the state it is - works fairly well, but who wants to put time into improving it when we are actively moving away from it? Bummer. -cbc

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> > If they know git - yes. Otherwise git is very complicated. But at least we > will be able to say that this is not our fault. > Software students not knowing git in this day and ageâ¦ is just sad. Git can get very complicated if you are going very deep, but then again that's true for any powerful tool, language, or system.

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by Yuriy Tymchuk

> On 10 Mar 2016, at 22:14, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > >> - it was reallllly hard to register a project on smalltalkhub just after we created an account. >> This already happened to me during the open-devs. >> So this is a really big show stopper for the mooc. Because people will gave up just after the first lecture :( > > The situation will be much easier I hope once git is well supportedâ¦ If they know git - yes. Otherwise git is very complicated. But at least we will be able to say that this is not our fault. Uko > >> - we should really rename Class>>name: into setClassName: >> students were manipulating object with name such as state of state machine and one wrote >> >> State name: 'A' and just rename the class and broke the system. > > I have just created an issue: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17798/Rename-Class-name-into-setClassName > > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by Henrik Nergaard

And changed back again because it is two different cases ;). Case 7241 is about removing the instance side method #name , which gives you a generic name of the receiver (by default #printString) where any if its uses is such that it is really hard to use it for anything like defining a variable named name wanting to have an accessor to it, since most senders expect a string in return etc. The issue raised here is about the fragile naming of the instance variable 'name' in the class Class, which causes all meta classes to have an "class side" instance variable name (view the class side of any class in nautilus and click on the variables button and you can see all the class side variables defined) + the methods #name/#name: on the class side of any class. This can cause some fun behaviour like crashing the image if you set the name to anything but a symbol -> "TabsExample name: TabsExample new" Best regards, Henrik -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of monty Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:35 PM To: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 4:14 PM > From: "Alexandre Bergel" <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > To: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student > presentation > > > - it was reallllly hard to register a project on smalltalkhub just after we created an account. > > This already happened to me during the open-devs. > > So this is a really big show stopper for the mooc. Because people > > will gave up just after the first lecture :( > > The situation will be much easier I hope once git is well supportedâ¦ > > > - we should really rename Class>>name: into setClassName: > > students were manipulating object with name such as state of state > > machine and one wrote > > > > State name: 'A' and just rename the class and broke the system. > > I have just created an issue: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17798/Rename-Class-name-into-setClas > sName Marked as a duplicate of: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/7241/Object-name-should-best-be-removed This has been an issue for years. Leave it as-is and anyone defining a class-side name: constructor risks breaking any tooling that still relies on name: renaming a class. Use named: (much more common in the image) instead and nothing will break, but now anyone that mistypes the selector as name: (no "d") accidentally renames the class, and to a string instead of a symbol. > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by monty

Not a duplicate, at least not of 17798. > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 4:35 PM > From: monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> > To: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation > > > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 4:14 PM > > From: "Alexandre Bergel" <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > > To: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation > > > > > - it was reallllly hard to register a project on smalltalkhub just after we created an account. > > > This already happened to me during the open-devs. > > > So this is a really big show stopper for the mooc. Because people will gave up just after the first lecture :( > > > > The situation will be much easier I hope once git is well supportedâ¦ > > > > > - we should really rename Class>>name: into setClassName: > > > students were manipulating object with name such as state of state machine and one wrote > > > > > > State name: 'A' and just rename the class and broke the system. > > > > I have just created an issue: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17798/Rename-Class-name-into-setClassName > > Marked as a duplicate of: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/7241/Object-name-should-best-be-removed > > This has been an issue for years. > > Leave it as-is and anyone defining a class-side name: constructor risks breaking any tooling that still relies on name: renaming a class. Use named: (much more common in the image) instead and nothing will break, but now anyone that mistypes the selector as name: (no "d") accidentally renames the class, and to a string instead of a symbol. > > > Alexandre > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation

by monty

> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 4:14 PM > From: "Alexandre Bergel" <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > To: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] feedback from yet another student presentation > > > - it was reallllly hard to register a project on smalltalkhub just after we created an account. > > This already happened to me during the open-devs. > > So this is a really big show stopper for the mooc. Because people will gave up just after the first lecture :( > > The situation will be much easier I hope once git is well supportedâ¦ > > > - we should really rename Class>>name: into setClassName: > > students were manipulating object with name such as state of state machine and one wrote > > > > State name: 'A' and just rename the class and broke the system. > > I have just created an issue: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17798/Rename-Class-name-into-setClassName Marked as a duplicate of: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/7241/Object-name-should-best-be-removed This has been an issue for years. Leave it as-is and anyone defining a class-side name: constructor risks breaking any tooling that still relies on name: renaming a class. Use named: (much more common in the image) instead and nothing will break, but now anyone that mistypes the selector as name: (no "d") accidentally renames the class, and to a string instead of a symbol. > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > >

March 10, 2016