December 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Drastically improving the messageNotUnderstood title

by Ben Coman

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I think > > Message does not exist > > Makes more sense, I always found the use of the word understood kinda > weird > I always liked the term 'understand'. I think such anthropomorphism helps give the system its feeling of liveness, and changed the way I thought about programming. cheers -ben

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Drastically improving the messageNotUnderstood title

by Ben Coman

cheers -ben On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 5:59 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > What if the method is on class side? Good point. Thus... 'class-side of AClass did not understand #message sent to it (MNU AClass-class>>#message)' On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I think > > Message does not exist > > Makes more sense, I always found the use of the word understood kinda > weird > > Phil > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 7:35 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> >> > On 8 Dec 2016, at 00:42, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 5:54 AM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> Done: 19441. >> >> >> >> I also change nil case to "message was send to nil" (instead of >> >> "receiver of >> >> message is nil"). You can correct it as you wish :) >> > >> > send==>sent >> > >> >> >> >> 2016-12-07 21:44 GMT+01:00 stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr>: >> >>> >> >>> Hi guys >> >>> >> >>> As I exposed newbies to our wonderfull debugger I think that we should >> >>> change >> >>> >> >>> MessageNotUnderstood: Class>>#message >> >>> >> >>> into >> >>> >> >>> an instance of Class did not understand message >> > >> > Perhaps(?) a short form can be put in brackets? >> > ==> an instance of Class did not understand #message sent to it (MNU >> > Class>>#message) >> >> +1 >> >> > cheers -ben >> > >> >>> >> >>> To me this simple change would have a HUGE impact on making the >> >>> debugger >> >>> first contact a lot more friendly. >> >> >

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Generate accessors refactoring

by Nicolas Passerini

Yes, I meant what Denis says. If you abort the refactoring/transformation in case of name clash, then you will have more cases in which the transformation is not applicable. 2016-12-08 14:19 GMT+01:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > > 2016-12-08 14:18 GMT+01:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > >> To be clear, you don't mean Do Nothing; you mean Issue an Error and Abort >>> the Refactoring right? >> >> >> No. "Do Nothing" means that if we already have method with instVar name >> we will skip this accessor. So we will not generate setter if there is >> already method #instVar:. No matter if this method do something wrong >> inside. > > > But getter will be generated in that case. No abort. >

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Generate accessors refactoring

by Denis Kudriashov

2016-12-08 14:18 GMT+01:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > To be clear, you don't mean Do Nothing; you mean Issue an Error and Abort >> the Refactoring right? > > > No. "Do Nothing" means that if we already have method with instVar name we > will skip this accessor. So we will not generate setter if there is already > method #instVar:. No matter if this method do something wrong inside. But getter will be generated in that case. No abort.

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Generate accessors refactoring

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi Eliot 2016-12-08 14:11 GMT+01:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > To be clear, you don't mean Do Nothing; you mean Issue an Error and Abort > the Refactoring right? No. "Do Nothing" means that if we already have method with instVar name we will skip this accessor. So we will not generate setter if there is already method #instVar:. No matter if this method do something wrong inside.

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Drastically improving the messageNotUnderstood title

by Eliot Miranda

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 3:14 AM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I think > > Message does not exist > > Makes more sense, I always found the use of the word understood kinda weird But messages that do exist can be not understood. For example Array new add: 1. The exists wording is wrong and misleading. >> On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 at 10:38, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >> MyClass did not understand #message >> >> Phil >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> 2016-12-08 10:59 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: >> What if the method is on class side? >> >> Good question. It will be >> an instance of MyClass class did not understand #message >> which of course not so good. What you suggest? >>

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Generate accessors refactoring

by Aliaksei Syrel

Could we deselect check box by default in Nautilus if refactoring suggests instVar1 / instVar1? Every time have to go through the list and deselect... Cheers, Alex On 8 December 2016 at 14:11, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Nicolas, > > On Dec 8, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Nicolas Passerini <npasserini(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Let me recapitulate a little. > A) What to do in case that a method with same selector already exists in > the same class? > So far I think we've come up with four ideas: > 1. Create with an alternative name such as instVar1 / instVar1: > 2. Create with an alternative name but ask the user what the name should > be. > 3. Replace existing method with simple accessor. > 4. Do nothing. > > > To be clear, you don't mean Do Nothing; you mean Issue an Error and Abort > the Refactoring right? > > > I think that the last one is the best alternative and should be the > default action. Let me analyze the others: > 1. Is the current behavior, but I always end up deleting the method, I > can't think of a situation in which I want to keep a method named #name1 . > I know that there was a lot of thinking on top of this ideas, but even so > I think that we can (should) rethink things once in a while. > > 2. A little better, because lets me select a name better than #name1. > Still I do not like it, because this means that I have a Class with > - an instance variable 'name' > - a method #name which is not the accessor for 'name' inst var. > - and an accessor which is named in another way > > I think this can happen in two situations: > - The original #name method is in fact a (smarter) accessor (i.e., for > example it provides a lazy initialization). In this case the best action is > 4 => do nothing, accessor already exists, do not provide a new one. > - The original #name does something else, that maybe has nothing to do > with the variable name... in this case, I think the best is aborting the > refactor. I am not proposing that refactoring browser should abort the > refactor automatically, probably not, but that is what I would do as user: > my class has a weird name clash, so I should rename either the inst var or > the method, it has no automatic solution. > > I am not sure about how the "generate accessors" could help me coping with > name clashes, but I do not like generating accessor with another name > different from the inst var name is a good idea. We could have this as an > option to the user, but should not be the default. > > 3. This is really dangerous, we shouldn't do it. I am not sure if someone > would like to have this as a (non default) option. > > > B) What if the colliding method is in a superclass? > Well, pretty much the same but: > - in option 3 instead of replacing a method you could override it. > - the method in the superclass could not be a "smarter accessor" unless > you are trying to create accessors in subclass for an inst var in the > superclass... I do not like it. So I'd consider it allways as a name clash. > > Then I think that the best option is still do nothing (option 4). You > could offer to create method with another name as alternative (option 2)... > but I still think that this kind of name "coincidences" may introduce bugs > in the future and should be avoided. > > C) Colliding methods in subclasses. > Here we have a more subtle situation because the existing method could be > a smarter accessor, that even could have its motivation to be there (for > example because initialization code only is useful for one subclass). > > I still think that doing nothing could be a safe solution, better than > creating it with an alternative name (but we could allow it also). > > Here we could think also about writing the accessor, because it will not > override preexistent behavior. But we have to think about a few situations: > - Easy, if any of the colliding methods (they could be serveral one for > each subclass) is not a smarter accessor... we have name clashes and we > cannot do anything. > - If all colliding methods are smart accessors, we could create one in the > superclass, provided that there exists at least one subclass which does not > provide its own implementation. > > > Of course there is not precise way of determining if a preexistent method > can be considered as a smarter accessor or not... so we only can let the > user decide. > > To resume: > - Doing nothing will be the best default as it is suitable for all cases, > and can not do any harm. > - Creating methods with alternative names could be optional, but shouldn't > be default. In this case I prefer to ask the user for a name instead of > creating one automatically. > - Creating the method even in case of collision can be dangerous... I am > not sure if we should even allow it as an option. > > 2016-12-07 0:03 GMT+01:00 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com>: > >> How about mostly keeping the existing behaviour, but default to >> collisions being deselected? >> Then at least you don't need to search for it. >> It minimises the chance of missing it by mistake. >> The deselected item easily stands out to be reselected if required. >> >> P.S. An additional side idea: If collision is from a superclass then >> append (Superclass>>name) to the list item, and clicking on it shows a >> code dialog to the right similar to Spotter code review pane, to make >> a review easier. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 10:09 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> >> wrote: >> > It shouldnât be too intelligent. Keep the default behavior, and for each >> > method add a 3-state checkbox: create (default), skip, force (override). >> > Also having a usage recorder would be nice to know if developers are >> > actually checking the other state more often than the default one. >> > >> > Uko >> > >> > On 6 Dec 2016, at 13:03, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > 2016-12-06 11:34 GMT+01:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >> >> >> >> 2016-12-06 11:28 GMT+01:00 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: >> >>> >> >>> Additionally it was annoying if a superclass has a method with the >> same >> >>> name. For example if you have a name var and you create accessors Iâd >> like >> >>> to have actually a ânameâ getter and not âname1â >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes >> >> >> > >> > If you start to make it so intelligent it requires half a dozen click to >> > generate a simple accessor, then people will stop using the refactoring >> and >> > write the code by hand... >> > >> > Thierry >> > >> > >> > >> >> >

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Generate accessors refactoring

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Nicolas, > On Dec 8, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Nicolas Passerini <npasserini(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Let me recapitulate a little. > A) What to do in case that a method with same selector already exists in the same class? > So far I think we've come up with four ideas: > 1. Create with an alternative name such as instVar1 / instVar1: > 2. Create with an alternative name but ask the user what the name should be. > 3. Replace existing method with simple accessor. > 4. Do nothing. To be clear, you don't mean Do Nothing; you mean Issue an Error and Abort the Refactoring right? > > I think that the last one is the best alternative and should be the default action. Let me analyze the others: > 1. Is the current behavior, but I always end up deleting the method, I can't think of a situation in which I want to keep a method named #name1 . > I know that there was a lot of thinking on top of this ideas, but even so I think that we can (should) rethink things once in a while. > > 2. A little better, because lets me select a name better than #name1. Still I do not like it, because this means that I have a Class with > - an instance variable 'name' > - a method #name which is not the accessor for 'name' inst var. > - and an accessor which is named in another way > > I think this can happen in two situations: > - The original #name method is in fact a (smarter) accessor (i.e., for example it provides a lazy initialization). In this case the best action is 4 => do nothing, accessor already exists, do not provide a new one. > - The original #name does something else, that maybe has nothing to do with the variable name... in this case, I think the best is aborting the refactor. I am not proposing that refactoring browser should abort the refactor automatically, probably not, but that is what I would do as user: my class has a weird name clash, so I should rename either the inst var or the method, it has no automatic solution. > > I am not sure about how the "generate accessors" could help me coping with name clashes, but I do not like generating accessor with another name different from the inst var name is a good idea. We could have this as an option to the user, but should not be the default. > > 3. This is really dangerous, we shouldn't do it. I am not sure if someone would like to have this as a (non default) option. > > > B) What if the colliding method is in a superclass? > Well, pretty much the same but: > - in option 3 instead of replacing a method you could override it. > - the method in the superclass could not be a "smarter accessor" unless you are trying to create accessors in subclass for an inst var in the superclass... I do not like it. So I'd consider it allways as a name clash. > > Then I think that the best option is still do nothing (option 4). You could offer to create method with another name as alternative (option 2)... but I still think that this kind of name "coincidences" may introduce bugs in the future and should be avoided. > > C) Colliding methods in subclasses. > Here we have a more subtle situation because the existing method could be a smarter accessor, that even could have its motivation to be there (for example because initialization code only is useful for one subclass). > > I still think that doing nothing could be a safe solution, better than creating it with an alternative name (but we could allow it also). > > Here we could think also about writing the accessor, because it will not override preexistent behavior. But we have to think about a few situations: > - Easy, if any of the colliding methods (they could be serveral one for each subclass) is not a smarter accessor... we have name clashes and we cannot do anything. > - If all colliding methods are smart accessors, we could create one in the superclass, provided that there exists at least one subclass which does not provide its own implementation. > > > Of course there is not precise way of determining if a preexistent method can be considered as a smarter accessor or not... so we only can let the user decide. > > To resume: > - Doing nothing will be the best default as it is suitable for all cases, and can not do any harm. > - Creating methods with alternative names could be optional, but shouldn't be default. In this case I prefer to ask the user for a name instead of creating one automatically. > - Creating the method even in case of collision can be dangerous... I am not sure if we should even allow it as an option. > > 2016-12-07 0:03 GMT+01:00 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com>: >> How about mostly keeping the existing behaviour, but default to >> collisions being deselected? >> Then at least you don't need to search for it. >> It minimises the chance of missing it by mistake. >> The deselected item easily stands out to be reselected if required. >> >> P.S. An additional side idea: If collision is from a superclass then >> append (Superclass>>name) to the list item, and clicking on it shows a >> code dialog to the right similar to Spotter code review pane, to make >> a review easier. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 10:09 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> > It shouldnât be too intelligent. Keep the default behavior, and for each >> > method add a 3-state checkbox: create (default), skip, force (override). >> > Also having a usage recorder would be nice to know if developers are >> > actually checking the other state more often than the default one. >> > >> > Uko >> > >> > On 6 Dec 2016, at 13:03, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > 2016-12-06 11:34 GMT+01:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >> >> >> >> 2016-12-06 11:28 GMT+01:00 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: >> >>> >> >>> Additionally it was annoying if a superclass has a method with the same >> >>> name. For example if you have a name var and you create accessors Iâd like >> >>> to have actually a ânameâ getter and not âname1â >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes >> >> >> > >> > If you start to make it so intelligent it requires half a dozen click to >> > generate a simple accessor, then people will stop using the refactoring and >> > write the code by hand... >> > >> > Thierry >> > >> > >> > >> >

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Drastically improving the messageNotUnderstood title

by Nicolas Cellier

2016-12-08 13:29 GMT+01:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > > 2016-12-08 12:14 GMT+01:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > >> I think >> >> Message does not exist >> > > It is not correct because in fact message exits and it is here in argument > of #doesNotUnderstood: and it is shown in degugger. > Executing a method (CompiledMethod) is how an object would react when receiving a message. Who is sending the message has (should have) no idea of which method exactly will be executed, or it least shouldn't have to care about it. It's encapsulated/delegated/private/you name it, IOW it's the responsibility of the object we sent the message to. So in Smalltalk we have to think in term of message, not method. DNU happens when the method lookup failed. I fail to see what is not crystal clear?

Dec. 8, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Drastically improving the messageNotUnderstood title

by phil＠highoctane.be

Kilon, Check the MessageSend class and its users. There are a lot of interesting things one can do there. Phil On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2016-12-08 12:14 GMT+01:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > >> I think >> >> Message does not exist >> > > It is not correct because in fact message exits and it is here in argument > of #doesNotUnderstood: and it is shown in degugger. >

Dec. 8, 2016