November 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc: Problems Running

by Denis Kudriashov

2016-11-29 12:46 GMT+01:00 Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com>: > I would really like to help you. > Could you explain why you want to install #git:development? > > If you don't know what it means install User version of Bloc, > It was same problem for me because as developer I choose development version :) As I understand dev version uses Iceberg and user version is not. And my problem was related to feature/issue of Iceberg to require github keys.

Nov. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc: Problems Running

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I think that Sean tried to install using the zero conf scripts: (All-in-one "developer" versions) wget -O- https://goo.gl/HQAPI5 | bash @Sean, indeed, the scripts rely on wget. If you want to install wget on Mac you can do so using homebrew: brew install wget If you do not want to install wget, please try to load the Bloc code using the scripts directly in a Pharo image: https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/blob/master/INSTALL.md#all-in-one-us… Does this help? Cheers, Doru > On Nov 29, 2016, at 12:46 PM, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Sean > > I would really like to help you. > Could you explain why you want to install #git:development? > > If you don't know what it means install User version of Bloc, as described in INSTALL.md > > Metacello new > baseline:'Bloc'; > repository: 'github://pharo-graphics/Bloc/src'; > load:#core > > Do you find installation guide hard to read or understand? > We are trying our best to provide a smooth user experience. Your feedback can help make Bloc better. > > Thanks, > Alex > > On 29 November 2016 at 06:02, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Aliaksei Syrel wrote > > Please refer to > > https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/blob/master/INSTALL.md in order to > > install bloc. > > $ wget -O- https://goo.gl/HQAPI5 | bash > -> Oops, no wget on Mac > $ curl https://goo.gl/HQAPI5 | bash > -> line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'... `<HTML>' > $ curl > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/master/scripts/get-dev > | bash > -> Still no wget :/ > $ curl http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash > $ ./pharo Pharo.image eval --save "Metacello new > baseline:'Bloc';repository:'github://pharo-graphics/Bloc/src';load:#git:development." > "Error: External module not found" from LGitLibrary>>libgit2_init > > ugh... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Bloc-Problems-Running-tp4924930p4925076.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com âThe smaller and more pervasive the hardware becomes, the more physical the software gets."

Nov. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

by Ben Coman

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 29 Nov 2016, at 00:00, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 5:29 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> On 28 Nov 2016, at 21:32, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> - Could we rename FastTable into Table? >> >> >> not for Pharo 6 but Pharo 7 yesâ¦ in fact, I think it should be called >> TableMorph. >> (Also we need to refactor a lot, to eliminate the FT prefix, etc.) >> >> >> - Then I miss an important design point. Why datasource returns Morph? >> >> I do not get get why a data source should return UI element. To me it >> violates layers. >> >> >> no, because thatâs its purpose: to provide the table with the cell >> elements (which are by definition Morphsâ¦ any kind of morphs). >> a TableDataSource is not a spec, is the provider of cells. >> >> > > so maybe TableCellSource / TableCellProvider ? > > > Iâm not against changing its name, in general the family of names are > âDataSourceâ, âStoreâ, etc. so I imagine that âProviderâ fits (even if I > tend to hate names style âManagerâ, âFactoryâ, âProviderâ, because there are > too genericâ¦ sometimes is that what you have :P) > But is not just a âcell providerâ, it does something more, is a general > model of the TableMorph: it provides cells, headers and interaction > capabilities (like drag&drop)â¦ so it is more like a "table data providerâ, cool. I was only reflecting back your first description (and so I learnt something more about it) > TableDataSource, TableStore, TableProvider are then better names, IMOâ¦ /refers to thesaurus TableWidgetSource, TableComponentSource, TableElementSource, TablePartProvider, TableAspectProvider, TableFacetProvider cheers -ben > > this changes will impact Pharo 7â¦ is very good that we can have a discussion > like this now, that we have the time to reach a consensus :) > > Esteban > > > cheers -ben > >

Nov. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bloc: Problems Running

by Aliaksei Syrel

Hi Sean I would really like to help you. Could you explain why you want to install #git:development? If you don't know what it means install User version of Bloc, as described in INSTALL.md Metacello new baseline:'Bloc'; repository: 'github://pharo-graphics/Bloc/src'; load:#core Do you find installation guide hard to read or understand? We are trying our best to provide a smooth user experience. Your feedback can help make Bloc better. Thanks, Alex On 29 November 2016 at 06:02, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Aliaksei Syrel wrote > > Please refer to > > https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/blob/master/INSTALL.md in order > to > > install bloc. > > $ wget -O- https://goo.gl/HQAPI5 | bash > -> Oops, no wget on Mac > $ curl https://goo.gl/HQAPI5 | bash > -> line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'... `<HTML>' > $ curl > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pharo-graphics/Bloc/master > /scripts/get-dev > | bash > -> Still no wget :/ > $ curl http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash > $ ./pharo Pharo.image eval --save "Metacello new > baseline:'Bloc';repository:'github://pharo-graphics/Bloc/src > ';load:#git:development." > "Error: External module not found" from LGitLibrary>>libgit2_init > > ugh... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Bloc-Pro > blems-Running-tp4924930p4925076.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Nov. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

by Thierry Goubier

2016-11-29 11:07 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > > On 29 Nov 2016, at 10:36, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > 2016-11-29 10:14 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >> >> On 29 Nov 2016, at 09:58, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> "DataSource" is responsible for providing visual elements that represent >> items in a data set. >> >> I don't see how word "Store" fits here, because DataSource does not store >> anything. DataSource is also not the best name since it is not a data >> source itself. >> An object that is now called DataSource, basically just knows a single >> function that from mathematical point of view can be defined as follows: >> f: Object -> Morph . You see, it is a *mapping, not a souse or store.* >> >> >> Store != Storage. >> A store is a place where you go to get stuff (same as FileSystem stores: >> they give you access to different filesystems, as a FTDataSource gives you >> access to different data structures) :) >> In Gtk3, you have GtkListView, and GtkListStore, for example. >> And DataSource is another stuff in Cocoa, from where I borrowed the >> design: https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstable >> viewdatasource >> >> Soâ¦ I still rest my argument. >> >> Anywayâ¦ we will NEVER reach a 100% agreement. We just need to go with >> what fits better current design/general idea. >> > > If you can't find the perfect meaning... just make sure there is no > misunderstanding (i.e. DataSource is kind of confusing). Memorable can > compensate for 'not exactly the right name'. > > I like the FastTable moniker because it convey some of the design intent. > As I like the core principle. > > I don't like the overall design; it has a lot of the PluggableTreeMorph > caracteristics, such as being a single widget trying to do everything with > an API that's dozens of pages long... And we know what will be the > community opinion on such widgets 10 years down the line. > > It's fitting that it has a lot to relate with GTK / Cocoa designs. Places > where people design huge objects because they live in a 'each function is > 20 to fifty lines long' world and don't understand what fine grained > objects / a live environment can be. > > > widgets are huge objects by definition (specially a tableâ¦ or a text > editor). > It would be really great to make them a bit more composable / modular... > but well, you can propose a refactorâ¦ Pharo 7 will be the good moment for > it :) > Ah, if only I had the time... Thierry > > Esteban > > > Thierry > > > > >> >> Esteban >> >> >> Cheers, >> Alex >> >> On 29 November 2016 at 09:44, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> 2016-11-29 9:35 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> yes, something like TableCellSource or TableCellProvider is more >>>> intention revealing. >>>> >>>> >>>> No, because is not *just* a cell provider. >>>> TableDataSource, TableStore, TableProvider, yes. >>>> >>>> I kind of like âTableStoreâ. >>> >>> >>> And if we have TableMorph then this guy should be TableMorphStore IMO. >>> >> >

Nov. 29, 2016

Any Pharo 5 in the industrial setup?

by Yuriy Tymchuk

Dear all, my name is Yuriy Tymchuk, I am a researcher from Bern University and the author of QualityAssistant and other quality-related tweaks and experiments in Pharo. I am interested to know is anybody uses Pharo 5 in industry as I've spent plenty of time to develop QualityAssistant and I am interested to know if it is useful in the industrial setup. So if you know any project please let me know. If you are an industrial developer working on Pharo 5 Iâm interested in a short chat. If you donât have a time for chat maybe you can spend a couple of minutes on a small questioner because I really want to make QA useful for developers. Cheers. Yuriy

Nov. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 29 Nov 2016, at 10:36, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2016-11-29 10:14 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: > >> On 29 Nov 2016, at 09:58, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com <mailto:alex.syrel@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> "DataSource" is responsible for providing visual elements that represent items in a data set. >> >> I don't see how word "Store" fits here, because DataSource does not store anything. DataSource is also not the best name since it is not a data source itself. >> An object that is now called DataSource, basically just knows a single function that from mathematical point of view can be defined as follows: >> f: Object -> Morph . You see, it is a mapping, not a souse or store. > > Store != Storage. > A store is a place where you go to get stuff (same as FileSystem stores: they give you access to different filesystems, as a FTDataSource gives you access to different data structures) :) > In Gtk3, you have GtkListView, and GtkListStore, for example. > And DataSource is another stuff in Cocoa, from where I borrowed the design: https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableviewdatasource <https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableviewdatasource> > > Soâ¦ I still rest my argument. > > Anywayâ¦ we will NEVER reach a 100% agreement. We just need to go with what fits better current design/general idea. > > If you can't find the perfect meaning... just make sure there is no misunderstanding (i.e. DataSource is kind of confusing). Memorable can compensate for 'not exactly the right name'. > > I like the FastTable moniker because it convey some of the design intent. As I like the core principle. > > I don't like the overall design; it has a lot of the PluggableTreeMorph caracteristics, such as being a single widget trying to do everything with an API that's dozens of pages long... And we know what will be the community opinion on such widgets 10 years down the line. > > It's fitting that it has a lot to relate with GTK / Cocoa designs. Places where people design huge objects because they live in a 'each function is 20 to fifty lines long' world and don't understand what fine grained objects / a live environment can be. widgets are huge objects by definition (specially a tableâ¦ or a text editor). but well, you can propose a refactorâ¦ Pharo 7 will be the good moment for it :) Esteban > > Thierry > > > > > Esteban > >> >> Cheers, >> Alex >> >> On 29 November 2016 at 09:44, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com <mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> 2016-11-29 9:35 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: >>> yes, something like TableCellSource or TableCellProvider is more intention revealing. >> >> No, because is not *just* a cell provider. >> TableDataSource, TableStore, TableProvider, yes. >> >> I kind of like âTableStoreâ. >> >> And if we have TableMorph then this guy should be TableMorphStore IMO.

Nov. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

by Aliaksei Syrel

> > Called by the table view to return the data object associated with the > specified row and column. https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableviewdatasource/1533674-… Cheers, Alex On 29 November 2016 at 10:44, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 29 November 2016 at 10:39, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> not true. >> it returns an NSView. >> > > Could you name a method (send a link to a documentation) that is > implemented by DataSource and returns an NSView? > > According to documentation NSView for an item at row/column index is > created and returned by NSTableView: > https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableview/1528831-view > > I didn't find any NSView related method in DataSource. Am I looking in a > wrong place? > > Cheers, > Alex >

Nov. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

by Aliaksei Syrel

On 29 November 2016 at 10:39, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > not true. > it returns an NSView. > Could you name a method (send a link to a documentation) that is implemented by DataSource and returns an NSView? According to documentation NSView for an item at row/column index is created and returned by NSTableView: https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableview/1528831-view I didn't find any NSView related method in DataSource. Am I looking in a wrong place? Cheers, Alex

Nov. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 29 Nov 2016, at 10:37, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 29 November 2016 at 10:14, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > And DataSource is another stuff in Cocoa, from where I borrowed the design: https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableviewdatasource <https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableviewdatasource> > > I know :) > However, implementation of FastTable does not correspond to Cocoa design. > > A table view does not store its own data; it retrieves data values as needed from a data source to which it has a weak reference > https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableview <https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableview> > This is where misconception begins. In Cocoa data source acts as real data source, it returns Object, not Morph! At the same time DataSource in FastTable returns Morphs. not true. it returns an NSView. Esteban > > Naming in Cocoa is correct and I am not arguing about it :) DataSource in FastTable != DataSource in Cocoa. > > Cheers, > Alex

Nov. 29, 2016