October 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Epicea user experience report

by Ben Coman

1. Created fresh Pharo image (build 60269) 2. Opened World > Tools > Epicea > All changes Points for discussion... a. How many submenu items are expected for Epicea? Can we push the current ones up so the Tools menu remains a flat menu. b. Do we need the two current menu items? "Current session" is encompassed by "All changes"? What expectations do people have of how often they'll use the former rather than the latter? c. When people move from Pharo 5 to Pharo 6 and in a panic want to "recover changes" for a crashed image, they'll be looking for that familiar feature name, not a new app name. Could the app name be left out or placed in brackets "Changes (Epicea)". btw, the interface looks really slick! nice work. 3. Opened World > System Browser. 4. Added package AAA All Changes window - no dynamic change. On <refresh>, still no change, i.e. no sessions #New All Changes window - not visible, no sessions. 5. Added class AA. All Changes window - no dynamic change. On <refresh>, shows new session with AAA & AA. 5. Added method... AA>a ^'something' Prompted for author, entered 'BenComan' All Changes window with session selected - dynamic update showing AA>>a. 6. Added package BBB. All Changes window - no dynamic update. On <refresh>, BBB still not visible in session. 7. Added class A to package AAA. All Changes window - dynamic update showing A. On <refresh>, BBB still not visible in session. 8. Added class BB to package BBB. All Changes window - dynamic update showing BBB & BB. a. Package creation event seems not handled properly, being only pushed through when a class is created in it. b. Since there is a dynamic update for class and method modifications, could the session creation also dynamically update it UI. ----------- 9. Killed the vm from command line $ ps -ef | grep pharo $ kill 29349 Restarted Pharo image 10. World > Tools > Epica > All changes. Authorship is inconsistent: * AAA and AA have blank author * AA>>a, A, BBB, B have author 'BenComan'. a. I understand this follows on from Author not being requested until the first method was defined. Did the old changes track the author of packages and classes at all? b. Since Epicea can track package and class authors, can we trigger the author prompt earlier for them? 11. Selected all previous changes AAA, AA, AA>>a, A, BBB, BB and did <Apply Changes>. Prompted for author. Entered 'DrWho' Existing All Changes window - no change New All Changes window - shows new session with all six changes. Authorship is a little inconsistent: * AAA and AA have author 'Unknown'. * AA>>a, A, BBB, B have blank author. 12. Killed the vm from command line $ ps -ef | grep pharo $ kill 30696 Restarted Pharo image 13. World > Tools > Epica > All changes. Authorship is a little inconsistent: First session * AAA and AA have blank author * AA>>a, A, BBB, B have author 'BenComan'. Second session * AAA and AA have blank author * AA>>a, A, BBB, B have author 'DrWho'. a. Epicea changes are reapplied as the current author. This seems a semantic change from Pharo 5 where changes were reapplied as their original author. Is this accidental or by design? Can we have some community discussion on this point (I don't remember seeing any)? cheers -ben P.S. I'll wait to see what arises out of discussion before creating any issues.

Oct. 29, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/60271 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Oct. 29, 2016

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 955c8b: 60271

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/6.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 955c8b6b44eb169ec6b4066d8c025563cfde61c5 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/955c8b6b44eb169ec6b4066d… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-10-29 (Sat, 29 Oct 2016) Changed paths: A Alien.package/AlienSunit.class/instance/testing/testParser.st M ConfigurationOfUnifiedFFI.package/ConfigurationOfUnifiedFFI.class/instance/symbolic versions/stable_.st A ConfigurationOfUnifiedFFI.package/ConfigurationOfUnifiedFFI.class/instance/versions/v0%5F24_.st M FFI-Kernel.package/ExternalObject.class/class/class initialization/initialize.st A Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/model - stepping/stepAt_in_.st A Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/model - stepping/stepIn_.st A Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/model - stepping/stepTime.st A Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/model - stepping/stepTimeIn_.st A Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/model - stepping/wantsSteps.st A Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/model - stepping/wantsStepsIn_.st A Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/model - updating/okToChange.st A Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/model - updating/windowIsClosing.st R Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/stepping/stepAt_in_.st R Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/stepping/stepIn_.st R Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/stepping/stepTime.st R Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/stepping/stepTimeIn_.st R Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/stepping/wantsSteps.st R Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/stepping/wantsStepsIn_.st R Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/updating/okToChange.st R Kernel.package/Object.class/instance/updating/windowIsClosing.st M Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/instance/interface/addAttachment.st R Polymorph-Widgets.package/MorphicUIManager.class/instance/ui requests/chooseFileMatching_label_.st R Polymorph-Widgets.package/UITheme.class/instance/services/chooseFileNameIn_title_patterns_path_preview_.st M Rubric.package/RubLipsumWithSegmentsExample.class/instance/accessing/loremIpsum.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60270.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60271.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60270.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60271.st M ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st A System-Model.package/Model.class/instance/accessing/announcer.st R System-Model.package/Model.class/instance/as yet unclassified/announcer.st A System-Model.package/Model.class/instance/updating/changed.st A System-Model.package/Model.class/instance/updating/changed_.st A System-Model.package/Model.class/instance/updating/changed_with_.st A System-Model.package/Model.class/instance/updating/okToChange.st A System-Model.package/Model.class/instance/updating/update_with_.st A System-Model.package/Model.class/instance/updating/windowIsClosing.st R UIManager.package/NonInteractiveUIManager.class/instance/ui requests/chooseFileMatching_label_.st R UIManager.package/UIManager.class/instance/ui requests/chooseFileMatching_.st R UIManager.package/UIManager.class/instance/ui requests/chooseFileMatching_label_.st A UnifiedFFI.package/FFIExternalReference.class/class/instance creation/newPointer.st A UnifiedFFI.package/FFIExternalStructureType.class/instance/initialization/prepareAsSelfFromCalloutDeclaration.st M UnifiedFFI.package/FFITypeArray.class/README.md A UnifiedFFI.package/LibC.class/class/misc/loadLibrary_.st A UnifiedFFI.package/LibC.class/class/misc/system_.st A UnifiedFFI.package/LibC.class/instance/misc/loadLibrary_.st A UnifiedFFI.package/LibC.class/instance/misc/system_.st A UnifiedFFI.package/extension/ExternalAddress/class/newPointer.st Log Message: ----------- 60271 19252 Implement Model specific methods from Object into Model https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19252 19016 Are UIManager>>chooseFileMatching: and friends really useful? https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19016 19254 Improve RubLipsumWithSegmentsExample>>#loremIpsum https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19254 19249 Simple Shell Command Eval was gone in Pharo 6 https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19249 http://files.pharo.org/image/60/60271.zip

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Instructions for Pharo 6 64bits

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 29 Oct 2016, at 01:23, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Thierry, > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: > Hi Esteban, > > Le 28/10/2016 Ã 11:56, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > VM here: http://bintray.com/estebanlm/pharo-vm/build#files/ <http://bintray.com/estebanlm/pharo-vm/build#files/> > > What is the difference between the various x86_64 versions? I chose the itimer one for my tests. The threaded one is the "run external calls in their own thread" vm? > > No. The "threaded" one uses a separate thread for generating the heartbeat. The timer one uses a signal-based interval timer. You want the threaded one. The signal-based implementation causes havoc with external code. ^ this. but the threaded one requires a config on linux. (executing it by command line will point you to the correct NOTE, just s/squeak/pharo :) ) Esteban > > Thanks, > > Thierry > > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot

Oct. 29, 2016

Image Distributions [was:Re: Mocks are missing in Pharo (from thread OSProcess is missing)}

by phil＠highoctane.be

Having them in image can indeed be useful. I am testing against REST backends, and well, this is a destructive test to say the least. Not easy to replay as much as I want. I hope that with the Bootstrap we'll be able to have a set of "Batteries Included" distributions. Kind of like we have Moose today, which I like very much as I do not have to load parts from all over the place. On http://tcl.tk there are also a number of such distributions: * the "Batteries Included" ActiveTcl (http://www.activestate.com/activetcl) with its various support levels [which would be good to emulate for the Pharo Pro business proposition] * TclKit / StarKits concept (http://wiki.tcl.tk/52) TclKit is a BaseKit. See http://wiki.tcl.tk/15985 for a table of kits and their supported features. * Build your own from sources. TclKit allows one to build special kit, using a command line tool, similar to what we discuss for loading packages easily. http://wiki.tcl.tk/10558 We do have an image and the TclKit has a VFS (Virtual File System) bundling everything in a single file. So, basically, one runs things with tclkit hello.kit. Quite reminiscent of pharo Pharo.image I'd say. Question 1: Which top 5 packages/configurations would you find useful to have available in a distribution? 1- 2- 3- 4- 5- Question 2: What do you consider to be the top 3 use cases of a Pharo Distribution for your own use? 1- 2- 3- Best, Phil ` On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2016-10-28 18:58 GMT+02:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: > >> No, please, kernel test should have the fewer dependencies as possible! >> > I would say this dependency is needed. > >> And again i'll hold my position: whoever wants to load it can do it. >> There is no need to put it there by default. >> > Do you know how much easier it would be to design and test FileSystem with > mocks. Code and tests will be much better and simpler from the beginning. > And I could said it about any package which provide abstractions. > > Now no project which is part of Pharo can use mocks for tests. So it is > not question of loading it for own project. Pharo contributors can't use > mocks. > > And there is another story. Imaging Ruby guys join Pharo development (not > real story :)). Many years In Ruby people use mocks and "human should" > assertions. Most TDD evolution was from Ruby. I imaging their impression > about Pharo "the best for TDD". > > And generally I would said we have quite bad tests in system. They are > slow, they corrupt image. Mocks will help to improve this situation. >

Oct. 29, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Instructions for Pharo 6 64bits

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Thierry, On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Hi Esteban, > > Le 28/10/2016 Ã 11:56, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > >> VM here: http://bintray.com/estebanlm/pharo-vm/build#files/ >> > > What is the difference between the various x86_64 versions? I chose the > itimer one for my tests. The threaded one is the "run external calls in > their own thread" vm? > No. The "threaded" one uses a separate thread for generating the heartbeat. The timer one uses a signal-based interval timer. You want the threaded one. The signal-based implementation causes havoc with external code. Thanks, > > Thierry > _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Mocks are missing in Pharo (from thread OSProcess is missing)

by Denis Kudriashov

2016-10-29 0:12 GMT+02:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > Because if Kernel packages are tested using mocks it means that to be able > to test the system we need to: > - build bootstrap > - load SUnit > - load mocks > - which will load probably a proxy framework > - then, just then, we are able to load the tests > Actually I am not talk exactly about bootstrap kernel. I mean all system included in Pharo. And while you are against bootstrap part what about the rest of system?

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Mocks are missing in Pharo (from thread OSProcess is missing)

by Denis Kudriashov

2016-10-28 21:07 GMT+02:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: > > You're somehow neglecting how difficult it is to build and maintain the > system as it is. > I am not. > > Because if Kernel packages are tested using mocks it means that to be able > to test the system we need to: > - build bootstrap > - load SUnit > - load mocks > - which will load probably a proxy framework > - then, just then, we are able to load the tests > > Then to know if the system is in a good state, we have to make the > assumption that (and I say make the assumption because we cannot test it > yet at this stage) > - sunit is ok > - the mock library is ok > - and all the mock library dependencies are ok > So adding simple config is problem? As you explain in last TechTalk all difficulties were related to managing dependencies between core packages which were tightly coupled and not designed with this in mind. Mocketry defines all dependencies in config. It's just two projects: StateSpecs and Ghost. And they not require anybody else. (there are separate config groups for GT support). > > It is too much for the kernel. >

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Mocks are missing in Pharo (from thread OSProcess is missing)

by Denis Kudriashov

2016-10-28 21:07 GMT+02:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: > And again i'll hold my position: whoever wants to load it can do it. There >>> is no need to put it there by default. >>> >> Do you know how much easier it would be to design and test FileSystem >> with mocks. Code and tests will be much better and simpler from the >> beginning. >> And I could said it about any package which provide abstractions. >> > >> Now no project which is part of Pharo can use mocks for tests. So it is >> not question of loading it for own project. Pharo contributors can't use >> mocks. >> > > That is not true. People can create mocks by hand. They do not require a > library for easing it. Maybe it is a bit more bureaucratic but it still > works. > Come on, get real. It is not practical sentence. It is *one of* the reason of bad quality and amount of tests in system. People just not write tests when it is difficult. And building custom mock classes is supper slow and boring which moves you away from actual business problems. > > Second, mocks are no silver bullet. they are alright to decouple and try > to test some parts of the system in isolation, but then you still need > integration tests to test how the different components add-up together. > It is all valid and not against any of my point. > >> And there is another story. Imaging Ruby guys join Pharo development (not >> real story :)). Many years In Ruby people use mocks and "human should" >> assertions. >> > > Ruby guys can load the library they prefer. And use it in their projects. > I'm no-one to forbid that, and actually I'd encourage it if that is what > they want. > And when Ruby guy will want to contribute to Pharo you will say him "build mocks by your hands". And he will say many nice words about TDD in Pharo. > > And actually this is what they do in Ruby: if they want a library they > load it. Why in Pharo it cannot be the same for god's sake?? > > Most TDD evolution was from Ruby. I imaging their impression about Pharo >> "the best for TDD". >> > > TDD is not about mocks. TDD is not about tests. TDD is about a way to > approach the design of an application. > Exactly. We all know it. But look at system. Nothing is designed by TDD. Most tests are written after code. And most tests are high level acceptance tests. > And what makes Pharo IMHO "the best for TDD" are not mocks but the > debugger and how we can develop applications with it. > As you said TDD is about design. First we specify design decisions in test. And only then we start implement them. So debugger is only about second part. And Pharo here is the best. But writing specifications in tests is quite limited without advanced mock library. Limited in practical sense. It should be maximum simple technically: if your real object is hard to setup or you not have one then just get mock with minimal effort. Without it TDD process is always interrupted by non business problems. > > >> And generally I would said we have quite bad tests in system. They are >> slow, they corrupt image. Mocks will help to improve this situation. >> > > Yes, but that's not because we do not have mocks. That's because some part > of the system are not designed to be tested (depend on global state), or > because nobody cared of writing good tests. > > **I am 100% sure that people can write bad tests with any mock library > that you want** > And I am 100% sure that people can write spaghetti code with any language that you want. Why use Smalltalk then? P.S. nice post on TDD from Uncle Bob http://blog.cleancoder. com/uncle-bob/2016/03/19/GivingUpOnTDD.html

Oct. 28, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Instructions for Pharo 6 64bits

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

OMG, this thing is for real: A Pharo image using 20 GB virtual memory, about 6/7 GB for real on macOS Sierra, after playing around a bit allocating massive amounts of memory. Pharo in the above screenshot holds two 2 basic inspectors open on two different 1 GB byte arrays, after GC consuming about 2.2 GB. This is a game changer. Yeah ! 2 ** 30 timesRepeat: [ Transcript crShow: 'Thank you !' ]. > On 28 Oct 2016, at 11:56, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > VM here: http://bintray.com/estebanlm/pharo-vm/build#files/ > Image here: http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip > > this is still not official (thatâs why is not in official place) so there are a couple of known problems: > > - version format is different, and that breaks some things in image that depends on it to know what happens > - command line is different and probably youâll need to play a bit with options (one or two dashes). > - UFFI has some failing tests (but most of it works). > > I would appreciate some help to report and/or fix the emerging problems. > > cheers, > Esteban > >> On 28 Oct 2016, at 10:39, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> anybody knows how to get (and test) the 64bits version of the Pharo vm and image? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Thierry >

Oct. 28, 2016