October 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] keeping threads on topic

by Dimitris Chloupis

The forum has a very nice search facility http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 06:11, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/23/2016 12:11 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > > Hi, > > > > The communication traffic around Pharo is constantly increasing and it > is harder and harder to keep up with everything that is happening. > > > > On the one hand this is great because it shows that our project is > growing healthily. On the other hand, it makes it harder for people to find > the relevant thread and participate in discussions. This is problematic > given that this mailing list is for discussing development issues that > require specific expertise. > > > > To address this, I kindly ask everyone to keep a thread as much as > possible on the topic meant by the title of the thread. > > > > Cheers, > > Tudor > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "Value is always contextual." > > I agree. > > We all know frequently threads take unforeseen directions. If you are > going to take a thread in a direction not on topic with the title, then > give your email a new title appropriate with the new topic. > > This helps people to better keep up with the mailing list as they can > better discern what messages are of interest to them or not. It also > helps people with particular knowledge know if messages if the message > is something they may need to respond to. > > It also helps the mailing list archives be more valuable for people > searching for answers. > > In addition I would like to encourage people to limit the quoted > material of the email to that which is important to or the context of > what they are replying to. So many emails are replies to long and > increasingly longer emails due to quoting of complete emails only to > make brief comments about small portion of the email. > > These mailing lists are an incredibly valuable resource. They are the > first place I search to find answers. These few simple things can help > them to be cleaner and more valuable as people will more easily find > what they are looking for. > > Thanks. > > Jimmie Houchin > > >

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] keeping threads on topic

by Jimmie Houchin

On 10/23/2016 12:11 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > The communication traffic around Pharo is constantly increasing and it is harder and harder to keep up with everything that is happening. > > On the one hand this is great because it shows that our project is growing healthily. On the other hand, it makes it harder for people to find the relevant thread and participate in discussions. This is problematic given that this mailing list is for discussing development issues that require specific expertise. > > To address this, I kindly ask everyone to keep a thread as much as possible on the topic meant by the title of the thread. > > Cheers, > Tudor > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Value is always contextual." I agree. We all know frequently threads take unforeseen directions. If you are going to take a thread in a direction not on topic with the title, then give your email a new title appropriate with the new topic. This helps people to better keep up with the mailing list as they can better discern what messages are of interest to them or not. It also helps people with particular knowledge know if messages if the message is something they may need to respond to. It also helps the mailing list archives be more valuable for people searching for answers. In addition I would like to encourage people to limit the quoted material of the email to that which is important to or the context of what they are replying to. So many emails are replies to long and increasingly longer emails due to quoting of complete emails only to make brief comments about small portion of the email. These mailing lists are an incredibly valuable resource. They are the first place I search to find answers. These few simple things can help them to be cleaner and more valuable as people will more easily find what they are looking for. Thanks. Jimmie Houchin

Oct. 26, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] roundTo: strange behavior

by Nicolas Cellier

2016-10-25 23:22 GMT+02:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > Ok for the advice > > Now round: aNumberOfDigits seems to work fine. > > Stef > > No it's not, but issues are timing out too fast ;) https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15471/Can-t-round-Float-fmax-to-2-decimal… https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15472/Fraction-rounding-to-n-decimal-plac… https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15473/Float-round-to-n-decimal-places-is-… I hate to say that, but try in python, they got it right... > Le 25/10/16 Ã 11:05, Henrik Johansen a Ã©crit : > > +1. > > Unless you're dealing with fixed precision* entities, it's usually better > to specify digits to display in printing methods themselves > (#printShowingDecimalPlaces: & friends in base image). > As per previous discussions around this that arise every second year or > so, rounding the number itself (as long as we're dealing with floats) will > never work as you want reliably. > > Cheers, > Henry > > * And in that case, you'd use ScaledDecimals > > On 23 Oct 2016, at 7:08 , phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > I use the Printf package for that. > > v := 65.456. > 'With 2 decimal digits: %5.2f, or 3 like this: %6.3f' > printf: {v. v}. > > With 2 decimal digits: 65.45, or 3 like this: 65.456 > > It is in http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/HOExtras > > Printf > > I am just used to C printf and well, I like the way it works. > > Phil > > >

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Scale

by stepharo

Yes you both are are right. This is why - we started to work on making sure that we can configure an image to be silent (no logging on changes) - we should have a way to save / launch configured images. Stef Le 25/10/16 Ã 09:03, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > Python has virtualenv, where one can install its own little world. > There is no reason we couldn't have an equivalent where a base scale > image is copied and updated with whatever we feel like. > > http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/dev/virtualenvs/ > > Phil > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 5:59 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Denis Kudriashov > <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com <mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Really nice project, Santiago. > > > > I have few questions: > > > > - what "system saveAfterRun" actually do? > > > > As I understand it saves image when script completes. Imaging > during script > > I loaded Seaside. Does this command makes Seaside accessible > from any scale > > scripts? > > Image persistence is one of Pharo's most useful features, but I think > its a liability for a system scripting environment. As a > philosophical point, Python/Ruby (somewhat) guarantee scripts start > with the same state each time they are run. I believe this is an > important attribute for system scripting. "saveAfterRun" seems > detrimental to that because you can break the environment for other > scripts, and you can't just reset state by deleting you script. Also > its harder to share scripts since dependencies are not recorded in the > script if the system state has changed. Python/Ruby handle this via a > module import/require facility. Perhaps Scale could provide a > facility to install a Configuration, then export it via Fuel as a > "module" that could be imported into Scale scripts. Loading via Fuel > should be fast enough (??) that Seaside could be accessible from any > Scale script without too much runtime overhead. (I'll add this as an > Issue if discussion indicates interest). > > cheers -ben > > > > > > - system execute: aString into: anImageBundle > > > > What is anImageBundle here? > > > > - What you think to make scripts working as workspace? All > undeclared > > variables will be added to environment automatically. And in case of > > saveAfterRun they will became accessible from any scale scripts. > > > > > > 2016-10-23 20:34 GMT+02:00 Santiago Bragagnolo > > <santiagobragagnolo(a)gmail.com > <mailto:santiagobragagnolo@gmail.com>>: > >> > >> Hi everybody. > >> > >> We are officially releasing a first version of scale. > >> > >> Scale is a command line handler that is there for making easier > the life > >> of the people that uses scripting in linux. As such, we only > tested it so > >> far in linux. It will be for sure easy to adapt it to mac > because its a > >> *nix, but not for windoze. > >> > >> IMPORTANT REMARK: scale is not meant to develop applications, > it is meant > >> to develop scripts in Pharo, to be launched from the command > line. This > >> means that scale does not provide a top level syntax to declare > classes or > >> methods: people should do that as any normal Pharo application. > Scale should > >> be used to invoke such applications. > >> > >> When would you use scale? > >> - For example, to replace some bash scripts used for common > boring tasks > >> (and you are using python or ruby there :P) > >> - Another example, would be when you want to replace bash > scripts that > >> chain things like: > >> ./pharo eval --save "something" > >> ./pharo eval --save "other something" > >> ... > >> > >> Github: https://github.com/guillep/Scale > <https://github.com/guillep/Scale> > >> Oneliner to install: (note it needs sudo) > >> > >> wget -O- > >> > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/guillep/Scale/master/setupScale.sh > <https://raw.githubusercontent.com/guillep/Scale/master/setupScale.sh> > | sudo > >> bash > >> > >> > >> In the repository there is some user level documentation based > on examples > >> and a list of available methods on the magical variable > system. There are > >> many examples as well on the repository. > >> > >> Last but not least, I'm using this project in others two > projects, where > >> it proof it self quite powerful what keeps me on maintaining Scale. > >> > >> These projects are: > >> > >> Pharo Android VM building > https://github.com/sbragagnolo/pharo-vm > <https://github.com/sbragagnolo/pharo-vm> > >> > >> Here I use it for automating the creation of a > >> * new building image, > >> * the creation of new resource image (for deploying on > the android > >> apk), > >> * linking the android sources into the building directory > >> * generating the code from the console > >> > >> MakrosTool https://github.com/sbragagnolo/MakrosTool > <https://github.com/sbragagnolo/MakrosTool> > >> > >> MakrosTool is an extension of scale that adds a second magical > variable > >> for building up component reification in a ROS based environment. > >> > >> > >> Santiago & Guille > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] roundTo: strange behavior

by stepharo

Ok for the advice Now round: aNumberOfDigits seems to work fine. Stef Le 25/10/16 Ã 11:05, Henrik Johansen a Ã©crit : > +1. > > Unless you're dealing with fixed precision* entities, it's usually > better to specify digits to display in printing methods themselves > (#printShowingDecimalPlaces: & friends in base image). > As per previous discussions around this that arise every second year > or so, rounding the number itself (as long as we're dealing with > floats) will never work as you want reliably. > > Cheers, > Henry > > * And in that case, you'd use ScaledDecimals > >> On 23 Oct 2016, at 7:08 , phil(a)highoctane.be >> <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> wrote: >> >> I use the Printf package for that. >> >> v := 65.456. >> 'With 2 decimal digits: %5.2f, or 3 like this: %6.3f' >> printf: {v. v}. >> >> With 2 decimal digits: 65.45, or 3 like this: 65.456 >> >> It is in http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/HOExtras >> <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#%21/%7Ephilippeback/HOExtras> >> >> Printf >> >> I am just used to C printf and well, I like the way it works. >> >> Phil

Oct. 25, 2016

TechTalk invite link

by Esteban Lorenzano

https://discord.gg/88sbn83 <https://discord.gg/88sbn83> It will start in 20min as preview. Esteban

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Notes about Pharo 6 release and new process for Pharo 7

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 25 Oct 2016, at 15:01, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 1) Builds will be bootstrap based. > This implies a change of mindset: pharo will be considered as a small kernel plus a set of maintained packages. This is important to remark because is a difference in our way of think: until now pharo is âthe imageâ, now it will be different because there is the possibility of build different images starting from the kernel and bootstrapping other packages. > But of course, the standard-distributed image will be still a compound of the maintained packages (and tests will be ran against this amalgam to be sure everything continues working) > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J6-3l3hCm0 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J6-3l3hCm0> > > That going to be even bigger than 64 bit, will make it easy to have Pharo distros :) > > I am very interested into hearing about this in the voice meeting . By the way what time is the meeting ? local time France is fine too. 18hs france.

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Notes about Pharo 6 release and new process for Pharo 7

by Dimitris Chloupis

> > 1) Builds will be bootstrap based. > This implies a change of mindset: pharo will be considered as a small > kernel plus a set of maintained packages. This is important to remark > because is a difference in our way of think: until now pharo is âthe > imageâ, now it will be different because there is the possibility of build > different images starting from the kernel and bootstrapping other packages. > But of course, the standard-distributed image will be still a compound of > the maintained packages (and tests will be ran against this amalgam to be > sure everything continues working) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J6-3l3hCm0 That going to be even bigger than 64 bit, will make it easy to have Pharo distros :) I am very interested into hearing about this in the voice meeting . By the way what time is the meeting ? local time France is fine too.

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Notes about Pharo 6 release and new process for Pharo 7

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 25 Oct 2016, at 14:27, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2016-10-25 14:20 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: > and I will paste Stefâs clarification, because it seems my text was a bit obscure :) > > Pharo 6.0 will be with the old process. > - no bootstrap > - no git > - 64 bits > So Pharo 6 will be 64 bits? Pharo 6 will *have* 64bits version. We will continue having the 32bits version for some time (and some more versions), I guessâ¦ Esteban > > Yes! > > Thierry > > - stabilisation > > But in parallel to Pharo 6.0 beta we will start Pharo7.0prealpha. > - with bootstrap > - process based on git > The idea is to have some months to get Pharo 70 alpha ready with the new process > when Pharo 60 gets out (or at least to get some cycles) > > > > On 25 Oct 2016, at 14:19, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Time to send this to dev list: > > (btw, this has to do with what we are going to talk today in TechTalk). > > > > Hi, > > > > Last week we had a meeting where we tried to define current Pharo 6 efforts and the next Pharo 7 goals (in particular, how to revamp our process into something that fits better our numbers of today). > > > > The thing is there was no clear roadmap for Pharo 6 and we wanted to precise it. > > Also, during last years we put some pieces in place and we are ready to do the next big step (changing the Pharo process) but we need to work hard until we have it working (and we just have a draft of how we would want to work, I will talk about later), and we need to discuss, test, iterate before is working properly. > > > > Anyway, this is what we think: > > > > We need to put Pharo 6.0 development in âfeature freeze statusâ right now. Only things that needs to enter is: > > - Clements changes (full blocks, SISTA bytecode set, â¦) > > - 64bits > > - Bugfixes > > > > This way we can jump to work on the new process, that we think will take some months until we have it ready. > > > > NEW PROCESS: > > > > 1) Builds will be bootstrap based. > > This implies a change of mindset: pharo will be considered as a small kernel plus a set of maintained packages. This is important to remark because is a difference in our way of think: until now pharo is âthe imageâ, now it will be different because there is the possibility of build different images starting from the kernel and bootstrapping other packages. > > But of course, the standard-distributed image will be still a compound of the maintained packages (and tests will be ran against this amalgam to be sure everything continues working) > > > > 2) Sources will be moved to git. > > Concrete structure is TBD, but it will be an unique project (no submodules) for a start. This is because is hard to handle changes in multiple submodulesâ¦ > > Anyway I would like to have different source directories (to separate kernel from maintained packages :P) > > > > 3) Changes will be managed through Pull Requests (yay!) > > And of course there will be a validation process (travis based)â¦ > > - Iâm also thinking on push the built images into some place for people to be able to verify their errors in the built image (also we could do this)â¦ I mean, the build images for validationâ¦ of course the âintegratedâ images will be pushed allways. > > > > This implies a lot of work to make it work, build the tools we need and make us feel confortable with it, thatâs why we want to start as soon as possible. > > This way, when 7.0 starts in march, we are with the new process. > > > > So that. > > > > Opinions, suggestions? > > > > Esteban > > > > >

Oct. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Notes about Pharo 6 release and new process for Pharo 7

by Thierry Goubier

2016-10-25 14:20 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > and I will paste Stefâs clarification, because it seems my text was a bit > obscure :) > > Pharo 6.0 will be with the old process. > - no bootstrap > - no git > - 64 bits > So Pharo 6 will be 64 bits? Yes! Thierry > - stabilisation > > But in parallel to Pharo 6.0 beta we will start Pharo7.0prealpha. > - with bootstrap > - process based on git > The idea is to have some months to get Pharo 70 alpha ready with the new > process > when Pharo 60 gets out (or at least to get some cycles) > > > > On 25 Oct 2016, at 14:19, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Time to send this to dev list: > > (btw, this has to do with what we are going to talk today in TechTalk). > > > > Hi, > > > > Last week we had a meeting where we tried to define current Pharo 6 > efforts and the next Pharo 7 goals (in particular, how to revamp our > process into something that fits better our numbers of today). > > > > The thing is there was no clear roadmap for Pharo 6 and we wanted to > precise it. > > Also, during last years we put some pieces in place and we are ready to > do the next big step (changing the Pharo process) but we need to work hard > until we have it working (and we just have a draft of how we would want to > work, I will talk about later), and we need to discuss, test, iterate > before is working properly. > > > > Anyway, this is what we think: > > > > We need to put Pharo 6.0 development in âfeature freeze statusâ right > now. Only things that needs to enter is: > > - Clements changes (full blocks, SISTA bytecode set, â¦) > > - 64bits > > - Bugfixes > > > > This way we can jump to work on the new process, that we think will take > some months until we have it ready. > > > > NEW PROCESS: > > > > 1) Builds will be bootstrap based. > > This implies a change of mindset: pharo will be considered as a small > kernel plus a set of maintained packages. This is important to remark > because is a difference in our way of think: until now pharo is âthe > imageâ, now it will be different because there is the possibility of build > different images starting from the kernel and bootstrapping other packages. > > But of course, the standard-distributed image will be still a compound > of the maintained packages (and tests will be ran against this amalgam to > be sure everything continues working) > > > > 2) Sources will be moved to git. > > Concrete structure is TBD, but it will be an unique project (no > submodules) for a start. This is because is hard to handle changes in > multiple submodulesâ¦ > > Anyway I would like to have different source directories (to separate > kernel from maintained packages :P) > > > > 3) Changes will be managed through Pull Requests (yay!) > > And of course there will be a validation process (travis based)â¦ > > - Iâm also thinking on push the built images into some place for people > to be able to verify their errors in the built image (also we could do > this)â¦ I mean, the build images for validationâ¦ of course the âintegratedâ > images will be pushed allways. > > > > This implies a lot of work to make it work, build the tools we need and > make us feel confortable with it, thatâs why we want to start as soon as > possible. > > This way, when 7.0 starts in march, we are with the new process. > > > > So that. > > > > Opinions, suggestions? > > > > Esteban > > > > >

Oct. 25, 2016