January 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Understanding Spotter?

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 11.01.2016 um 16:59 schrieb stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > Why #s > Senders shortcut is since ages Cmd-n > > Why do you want to force people to remember two different shortcuts. I do not get it? > > Sorry but I did not get at all what is & and personnally I'm not sure that I want to understand. > Me, too. I see no reason to have that different. Maybe you could open spotter, press the shortcut cmd+n and spotter writes the appropriate prefix (if any necessary) in the text field. Norbert > Stef > > Le 10/1/16 22:26, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >> Hi Stef, >> >> Thanks for taking the time. I think I did not express myself properly in the previous mail because we are not really in disagreement :). >> >> The basic mechanism you talk about exists already in Spotter. Let me explain. When you type: "#e graphs", you will get two examples (and only the example search is being performed). >> >> <Mail-Anhang.png> >> >> This works because the name of the âExamplesâ category starts with âEâ. >> >> Until now we did not have a top level processor that would search for Senders (only inside a method). So, because of this you could not search for them at the top level. In the meantime Stefan just finished implementing it, the name of the category is Senders. So, you will type â#s somethingâ. >> >> <Mail-Anhang.png> >> >> I now made the category name start with # so that it is closer to the way to query for it. So, when you do not know how, you will just search for âsomethingâ. Then you will discover the #Senders category, and then you can learn that you can search for it. >> >> Now, you seem to be saying that instead of â#s somethingâ you want to type â#n somethingâ. For this we would need to find a solution to reconcile the two. My proposal was to maybe introduce something like â&n somethingâ to distinguish between the string match of a category name and a âshortcutâ (I do not know how to call it). I can see how to do this technically, but I still think this is less discoverable then the filtering by the name like described above, and it would be an extra mechanism. We could add this shortcut next to the category name to address this issue. The interesting thing about the shortcut is that we could possibly make it less ambiguous. For example, if you have two categories starting with #S, you will get both when you type â#S somethingâ, which is less ideal for a common case. So, there are pros and cons. >> >> Now, what is missing is a top level category for References, and I really think we would have what you wanted (and it is a good goal). The cool thing is that we would be solving this problem with a generic mechanism. >> >> So, what I am suggesting is to invest a bit in categories (#Senders can be integrated now) and then we play with it. >> >> Is this explanation clearer? Did I misunderstand something? What do you think? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >>> On Jan 10, 2016, at 10:23 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >>> >>> Ok my last attempt :( >>> >>> When I look for something there are two cases >>> >>> - most of the time I ********************KKKKNNNOOOOOOOWWWWWWW********* >>> is it clear? I know I know I know what I look for and I WANT THE FASTER WAY TO GET IT >>> => no three clicks and strange navigation. >>> >>> I want the sender of this message (not the implementors the sender) >>> I want that package >>> I want the references to this class (not the class and the refs that class) >>> and I'm ready to learn >>> #N for reference >>> #n for senders >>> #m for implementors >>> Because they are the same. >>> #e for example like in the finder >>> >>> - looking around and the system can propose me something >>> and I can navigate and think. >>> >>> But this is ok I just use Spotter to open the class browser and all the rest I do it with shortcuts. >>> I tried to help but I failed. >>> >>> I will present Spotter as the great tool to open browser because I cannot use it otherwise and >>> nobody around me can show me on the spot something more efficient than a shortcut in a workspace. >>> Or may be I will simply not spend energy doing a videos on Spotter because to me this is not ready >>> and far less usable than it is supposed to be. >>> >>> Now to me Spotter is taking a lot of classes for the gain I get. What esteban did or what is in Squeak >>> is working perfectly for me because Spotter does not let me express my needs. >>> So may be you have other needs but I would like to know how people really works and not >>> how Spotter should be usefull. >>> >>> The video of dimitry shows that well: Just browse a class and sometimes you get an implementor >>> May be you do not like my mail because they look aggressive but when is the last time >>> you did a real study with users that were not already convinced. Or may be with users >>> that loves just one tiny feature and not the one you think that they use? >>> >>> And BTW it hangs my images two times with 4.0 when I was in africa and this was annoying. >>> Stef >>> >>> >>>>> I do not get why you cannot >>>>> - have a set of fixed most used queries and this will create a small vocabulary that can be extensible >>>>> and it can be mapped to what we do with shortcuts = reduce cognitive load >>>>> and then a full search when you do not know what you are searching. >>>>> This is not exclusive and it works for the two scenario. >>>> >>>> I understand the intention, but I do not understand how these fixed queries are any different than we have now. When you are on the top of Spotter, when you query, you get always the same processors being executed. At first you will not know their names, and you will scroll. And if you see them, you might remember them and reproduce afterwards. Itâs a discoverable learning process that you do not have to remember. >>> >>> Because with these wonderfull queries I do not get what I'm looking for. >>> Because the system is trying to guess what I have in my mind and this system is not good for that because I'm thinking about >>> the metallica song I'm listening. >>> >>> >>>> The only part that is not discoverable is that # introduces a category search. Thinking loud, I just thought that we can make the label start with # like this (I committed this change): >>> >>> Sorry but I do not get it. >>> >>>> >>>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>>> >>>> We also thought of having completion as soon as someone type #. So, you have a kind of a dropdown for the available categories, but we did not get to implement that one. This should solve the discoverability problem even more. What do you think about that? >>> Why not >>> but just a ghost with >>> #n printOn: #m #N .... >>> would be a huge improvement >>> >>> Each time I used Spotter to look for something more than a class I could not find it. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Regarding the shortcuts, we could associated such shortcuts with a processor, but I would first want to see if we cannot manage to produce a solution with the current set of options. >>> >>> I was not saying shortcuts and I was thinking the same vocabulary >>> >>> Cmd+N >>> #N >>> Cmd+m >>> #m >>> Cmd+n >>> #n >>>> >>>> >>>>> I was discussing with Luc and he made a fun but sad remark >>>>> "Since people do not understand well spotter they most of the time only use it to open a class. >>>>> And this is something that he already had before." >>>>> I briefly looked at the Youtube video of Chloupis and >>>>> So you can have a generic super cool tool, if people do not use it it defeats its purpose. >>>> >>>> Certainly. >>>> >>>> >>>>> You can be really happy because you go fast with it but you only. >>>> >>>> That is not really true :). >>> >>> See my remark above. >>>> >>>>> So making sure that the most used actions are really supported is important. >>>> >>>> Of course it is. For Senders we did not find a good solution yet that is reasonably fast and useful. Stefan and I are still literally working on this. I think we should be able to have a solution, but we have to see if it is reasonable enough. We will announce it once we have it working. >>> >>> the problem is that you want to solve everything at once. While the divide and conquer is the solution for the first >>> scenario I mention. I do not need something that crawls the entire system when I have one precise query. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> But, really, this tool more than anything allows one to play with possibilities in a couple of lines of code. We want people to play (some did) and to get concrete feedback and possible solutions. I think we should not just say that we need something else before we actually play with it a bit more. >>> I do not get it. >>> I never worked with me. And so far I did not see anybody succeeding to show me how to find something that I cannot >>> find faster with a shortcut. >>> >>> >>> >>>>> But more important the discoverability is important because there is not even a help. >>>>> Right now as a user I can only guess and often I close spotter and use my shortcuts. >>>>> As a user I see something that ask me about network (and I do not care) but nothing >>>>> that brings me to the next level. >>>> >>>> This is something we need to work on, but you know, time is limited for us, too. >>> >>> Add a button and an help text copied from your blog! >>> And you will have made a 100% documentation jump. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Most of the time the user forgets the key combination (may be this will be solved with >>>>> the cool shortcut reminder we developed and is under review) >>>> >>>> All actions in spotter have a visible icon. All. And if you hover over it you get the command. And there are literally 5 such actions. What is missing in this regard from your point of view? >>> >>> I do not know >>> They do not cover what I want to do. >>> I do not care of setting >>> Most of the time I do not care about seeing all. I saw now that you have an arrow to show more than the top 5 >>> good but again Cmd-shift > is not easy to type and give pain. >>> I do not understand why I should dive in most of the time. >>> >>> I realised that I could use Spotter when I saw that I can press shift under the return because >>> before I got immediate pain when trying with the left shift. >>> To me left shift is a NO WAY. >>> esc (top left) would work but I did not have the time to hack Spotter. >>> >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> >>>> www.feenk.com <http://www.feenk.com/> >>>> >>>> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> >> www.feenk.com <http://www.feenk.com/> >> >> "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal." >> >> >> >> >> >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Understanding Spotter?

by Nicolai Hess

2016-01-11 16:59 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > Why #s > Senders shortcut is since ages Cmd-n > #s is not a shortcut, it is a filter. #s filters for category starting with "s" like "senders" #i filters for category starting with "i" like "implementers" if you add another search category for spotter like "Demo" you could use #d as a filter for this. > > Why do you want to force people to remember two different shortcuts. I do > not get it? > > Sorry but I did not get at all what is & and personnally I'm not sure that > I want to understand. > > Stef > > Le 10/1/16 22:26, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > > Hi Stef, > > Thanks for taking the time. I think I did not express myself properly in > the previous mail because we are not really in disagreement :). > > The basic mechanism you talk about exists already in Spotter. Let me > explain. When you type: "#e graphs", you will get two examples (and only > the example search is being performed). > > > This works because the name of the âExamplesâ category starts with âEâ. > > Until now we did not have a top level processor that would search for > Senders (only inside a method). So, because of this you could not search > for them at the top level. In the meantime Stefan just finished > implementing it, the name of the category is Senders. So, you will type â#s > somethingâ. > > > I now made the category name start with # so that it is closer to the way > to query for it. So, when you do not know how, you will just search for > âsomethingâ. Then you will discover the #Senders category, and then you can > learn that you can search for it. > > Now, you seem to be saying that instead of â#s somethingâ you want to type > â#n somethingâ. For this we would need to find a solution to reconcile the > two. My proposal was to maybe introduce something like â&n somethingâ to > distinguish between the string match of a category name and a âshortcutâ (I > do not know how to call it). I can see how to do this technically, but I > still think this is less discoverable then the filtering by the name like > described above, and it would be an extra mechanism. We could add this > shortcut next to the category name to address this issue. The interesting > thing about the shortcut is that we could possibly make it less ambiguous. > For example, if you have two categories starting with #S, you will get both > when you type â#S somethingâ, which is less ideal for a common case. So, > there are pros and cons. > > Now, what is missing is a top level category for References, and I really > think we would have what you wanted (and it is a good goal). The cool thing > is that we would be solving this problem with a generic mechanism. > > So, what I am suggesting is to invest a bit in categories (#Senders can be > integrated now) and then we play with it. > > Is this explanation clearer? Did I misunderstand something? What do you > think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On Jan 10, 2016, at 10:23 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Ok my last attempt :( > > When I look for something there are two cases > > - most of the time I ********************KKKKNNNOOOOOOOWWWWWWW********* > is it clear? I know I know I know what I look for and I WANT > THE FASTER WAY TO GET IT > => no three clicks and strange navigation. > > I want the sender of this message (not the implementors the sender) > I want that package > I want the references to this class (not the class and the refs that > class) > and I'm ready to learn > #N for reference > #n for senders > #m for implementors > Because they are the same. > #e for example like in the finder > > - looking around and the system can propose me something > and I can navigate and think. > > But this is ok I just use Spotter to open the class browser and all the > rest I do it with shortcuts. > I tried to help but I failed. > > I will present Spotter as the great tool to open browser because I cannot > use it otherwise and > nobody around me can show me on the spot something more efficient than a > shortcut in a workspace. > Or may be I will simply not spend energy doing a videos on Spotter because > to me this is not ready > and far less usable than it is supposed to be. > > Now to me Spotter is taking a lot of classes for the gain I get. What > esteban did or what is in Squeak > is working perfectly for me because Spotter does not let me express my > needs. > So may be you have other needs but I would like to know how people really > works and not > how Spotter should be usefull. > > The video of dimitry shows that well: Just browse a class and sometimes > you get an implementor > May be you do not like my mail because they look aggressive but when is > the last time > you did a real study with users that were not already convinced. Or may be > with users > that loves just one tiny feature and not the one you think that they use? > > And BTW it hangs my images two times with 4.0 when I was in africa and > this was annoying. > Stef > > > I do not get why you cannot > - have a set of fixed most used queries and this will create a small > vocabulary that can be extensible > and it can be mapped to what we do with shortcuts = reduce cognitive > load > and then a full search when you do not know what you are searching. > > This is not exclusive and it works for the two scenario. > > > I understand the intention, but I do not understand how these fixed > queries are any different than we have now. When you are on the top of > Spotter, when you query, you get always the same processors being executed. > At first you will not know their names, and you will scroll. And if you see > them, you might remember them and reproduce afterwards. Itâs a discoverable > learning process that you do not have to remember. > > > Because with these wonderfull queries I do not get what I'm looking for. > Because the system is trying to guess what I have in my mind and this > system is not good for that because I'm thinking about > the metallica song I'm listening. > > > The only part that is not discoverable is that # introduces a category > search. Thinking loud, I just thought that we can make the label start with > # like this (I committed this change): > > > Sorry but I do not get it. > > > <Mail Attachment.png> > > We also thought of having completion as soon as someone type #. So, you > have a kind of a dropdown for the available categories, but we did not get > to implement that one. This should solve the discoverability problem even > more. What do you think about that? > > Why not > but just a ghost with > #n printOn: #m #N .... > would be a huge improvement > > Each time I used Spotter to look for something more than a class I could > not find it. > > > > Regarding the shortcuts, we could associated such shortcuts with a > processor, but I would first want to see if we cannot manage to produce a > solution with the current set of options. > > > I was not saying shortcuts and I was thinking the same vocabulary > > Cmd+N > #N > Cmd+m > #m > Cmd+n > #n > > > > I was discussing with Luc and he made a fun but sad remark > "Since people do not understand well spotter they most of the time only > use it to open a class. > And this is something that he already had before." > I briefly looked at the Youtube video of Chloupis and > > So you can have a generic super cool tool, if people do not use it it > defeats its purpose. > > > Certainly. > > > You can be really happy because you go fast with it but you only. > > > That is not really true :). > > > See my remark above. > > > So making sure that the most used actions are really supported is > important. > > > Of course it is. For Senders we did not find a good solution yet that is > reasonably fast and useful. Stefan and I are still literally working on > this. I think we should be able to have a solution, but we have to see if > it is reasonable enough. We will announce it once we have it working. > > > the problem is that you want to solve everything at once. While the divide > and conquer is the solution for the first > scenario I mention. I do not need something that crawls the entire system > when I have one precise query. > > > > But, really, this tool more than anything allows one to play with > possibilities in a couple of lines of code. We want people to play (some > did) and to get concrete feedback and possible solutions. I think we > should not just say that we need something else before we actually play > with it a bit more. > > I do not get it. > I never worked with me. And so far I did not see anybody succeeding to > show me how to find something that I cannot > find faster with a shortcut. > > > > But more important the discoverability is important because there is not > even a help. > > Right now as a user I can only guess and often I close spotter and use my > shortcuts. > > As a user I see something that ask me about network (and I do not care) > but nothing > that brings me to the next level. > > > This is something we need to work on, but you know, time is limited for > us, too. > > > Add a button and an help text copied from your blog! > And you will have made a 100% documentation jump. > > > > Most of the time the user forgets the key combination (may be this will be > solved with > the cool shortcut reminder we developed and is under review) > > > All actions in spotter have a visible icon. All. And if you hover over it > you get the command. And there are literally 5 such actions. What is > missing in this regard from your point of view? > > > I do not know > They do not cover what I want to do. > I do not care of setting > Most of the time I do not care about seeing all. I saw now that you > have an arrow to show more than the top 5 > good but again Cmd-shift > is not easy to type and give pain. > I do not understand why I should dive in most of the time. > > I realised that I could use Spotter when I saw that I can press shift > under the return because > before I got immediate pain when trying with the left shift. > To me left shift is a NO WAY. > esc (top left) would work but I did not have the time to hack Spotter. > > > Doru > > > Stef > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal." > > > > > > >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo50 spur works on CentOS?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 11 Jan 2016, at 16:51, Blondeau Vincent <vincent.blondeau(a)worldline.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > I just wanted to run a latest Pharo image on a CentOS server to run a Zinc server. > So I did: > curl get.pharo.org/50+vm | bash > > ./pharo Pharo.image eval â1+1â evals to 2 > > But, > ./pharo Pharo.image --no-quit eval "ZnServer startOn: 8080." > returns: > ioLoadModule(/root/Pharo/pharo-vm/libFT2Plugin.so): > libfreetype.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > So the server is not launchedâ¦ > > What are the libs that should be installed on the machine? Should I take another VM? > > BTW, why a headless image needs a freetype lib? Yeah, that should not be the case: http://forum.world.st/Confused-about-libFT2Plugin-tt4842354.html > Thanks in advance, > > Cheers, > Vincent Blondeau > > > > Ce message et les piÃ¨ces jointes sont confidentiels et rÃ©servÃ©s Ã l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut Ã©galement Ãªtre protÃ©gÃ© par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir immÃ©diatement l'expÃ©diteur et de le dÃ©truire. L'intÃ©gritÃ© du message ne pouvant Ãªtre assurÃ©e sur Internet, la responsabilitÃ© de Worldline ne pourra Ãªtre recherchÃ©e quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'expÃ©diteur ne donne aucune garantie Ã cet Ã©gard et sa responsabilitÃ© ne saurait Ãªtre recherchÃ©e pour tout dommage rÃ©sultant d'un virus transmis. > > This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Worldline liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted.

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Understanding Spotter?

by stepharo

This is my point too. Be coherent with shortcuts. Le 11/1/16 11:37, Ben Coman a Ã©crit : > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:23 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > Ok my last attempt :( > > When I look for something there are two cases > > - most of the time I > ********************KKKKNNNOOOOOOOWWWWWWW********* > is it clear? I know I know I know what I look for and I WANT > THE FASTER WAY TO GET IT > => no three clicks and strange navigation. > > I want the sender of this message (not the implementors the > sender) > I want that package > I want the references to this class (not the class and the > refs that class) > and I'm ready to learn > #N for reference > #n for senders > #m for implementors > Because they are the same. > > > After first typing the search string, could we be able to hit Alt-m to > filter for implementers. Then my muscle memory [1] is directly > applicable (and I'll be working like a ninja ;). > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory > cheers -ben > > #e for example like in the finder > > > - looking around and the system can propose me something > and I can navigate and think. > > But this is ok I just use Spotter to open the class browser and > all the rest I do it with shortcuts. > I tried to help but I failed. > > I will present Spotter as the great tool to open browser because I > cannot use it otherwise and > nobody around me can show me on the spot something more efficient > than a shortcut in a workspace. > Or may be I will simply not spend energy doing a videos on Spotter > because to me this is not ready > and far less usable than it is supposed to be. > > Now to me Spotter is taking a lot of classes for the gain I get. > What esteban did or what is in Squeak > is working perfectly for me because Spotter does not let me > express my needs. > So may be you have other needs but I would like to know how people > really works and not > how Spotter should be usefull. > > The video of dimitry shows that well: Just browse a class and > sometimes you get an implementor > May be you do not like my mail because they look aggressive but > when is the last time > you did a real study with users that were not already convinced. > Or may be with users > that loves just one tiny feature and not the one you think that > they use? > > And BTW it hangs my images two times with 4.0 when I was in africa > and this was annoying. > Stef > > >>> I do not get why you cannot >>> - have a set of fixed most used queries and this will create >>> a small vocabulary that can be extensible >>> and it can be mapped to what we do with shortcuts = reduce >>> cognitive load >>> and then a full search when you do not know what you are >>> searching. >>> This is not exclusive and it works for the two scenario. >> >> I understand the intention, but I do not understand how these >> fixed queries are any different than we have now. When you are on >> the top of Spotter, when you query, you get always the same >> processors being executed. At first you will not know their >> names, and you will scroll. And if you see them, you might >> remember them and reproduce afterwards. Itâs a discoverable >> learning process that you do not have to remember. > > Because with these wonderfull queries I do not get what I'm > looking for. > Because the system is trying to guess what I have in my mind and > this system is not good for that because I'm thinking about > the metallica song I'm listening. > > >> The only part that is not discoverable is that # introduces a >> category search. Thinking loud, I just thought that we can make >> the label start with # like this (I committed this change): > > Sorry but I do not get it. > >> >> >> We also thought of having completion as soon as someone type #. >> So, you have a kind of a dropdown for the available categories, >> but we did not get to implement that one. This should solve the >> discoverability problem even more. What do you think about that? > Why not > but just a ghost with > #n printOn: #m #N .... > would be a huge improvement > > Each time I used Spotter to look for something more than a class I > could not find it. > > > >> Regarding the shortcuts, we could associated such shortcuts with >> a processor, but I would first want to see if we cannot manage to >> produce a solution with the current set of options. > > I was not saying shortcuts and I was thinking the same vocabulary > > Cmd+N > #N > Cmd+m > #m > Cmd+n > #n >> >> >>> I was discussing with Luc and he made a fun but sad remark >>> "Since people do not understand well spotter they most of the >>> time only use it to open a class. >>> And this is something that he already had before." >>> I briefly looked at the Youtube video of Chloupis and >>> So you can have a generic super cool tool, if people do not use >>> it it defeats its purpose. >> >> Certainly. >> >> >>> You can be really happy because you go fast with it but you only. >> >> That is not really true :). > > See my remark above. >> >>> So making sure that the most used actions are really supported >>> is important. >> >> Of course it is. For Senders we did not find a good solution yet >> that is reasonably fast and useful. Stefan and I are still >> literally working on this. I think we should be able to have a >> solution, but we have to see if it is reasonable enough. We will >> announce it once we have it working. > > the problem is that you want to solve everything at once. While > the divide and conquer is the solution for the first > scenario I mention. I do not need something that crawls the entire > system when I have one precise query. > > >> >> But, really, this tool more than anything allows one to play with >> possibilities in a couple of lines of code. We want people to >> play (some did) and to get concrete feedback and possible >> solutions. I think we should not just say that we need something >> else before we actually play with it a bit more. > I do not get it. > I never worked with me. And so far I did not see anybody > succeeding to show me how to find something that I cannot > find faster with a shortcut. > > > >>> But more important the discoverability is important because >>> there is not even a help. >>> Right now as a user I can only guess and often I close spotter >>> and use my shortcuts. >>> As a user I see something that ask me about network (and I do >>> not care) but nothing >>> that brings me to the next level. >> >> This is something we need to work on, but you know, time is >> limited for us, too. > > Add a button and an help text copied from your blog! > And you will have made a 100% documentation jump. >> >> >>> Most of the time the user forgets the key combination (may be >>> this will be solved with >>> the cool shortcut reminder we developed and is under review) >> >> All actions in spotter have a visible icon. All. And if you hover >> over it you get the command. And there are literally 5 such >> actions. What is missing in this regard from your point of view? > > I do not know > They do not cover what I want to do. > I do not care of setting > Most of the time I do not care about seeing all. I saw now > that you have an arrow to show more than the top 5 > good but again Cmd-shift > is not easy to type and give pain. > I do not understand why I should dive in most of the time. > > I realised that I could use Spotter when I saw that I can press > shift under the return because > before I got immediate pain when trying with the left shift. > To me left shift is a NO WAY. > esc (top left) would work but I did not have the time to hack Spotter. > >> >> Doru >> >> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >> www.feenk.com <http://www.feenk.com> >> >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >> > >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Understanding Spotter?

by stepharo

Why #s Senders shortcut is since ages Cmd-n Why do you want to force people to remember two different shortcuts. I do not get it? Sorry but I did not get at all what is & and personnally I'm not sure that I want to understand. Stef Le 10/1/16 22:26, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > Hi Stef, > > Thanks for taking the time. I think I did not express myself properly > in the previous mail because we are not really in disagreement :). > > The basic mechanism you talk about exists already in Spotter. Let me > explain. When you type: "#e graphs", you will get two examples (and > only the example search is being performed). > > > This works because the name of the âExamplesâ category starts with âEâ. > > Until now we did not have a top level processor that would search for > Senders (only inside a method). So, because of this you could not > search for them at the top level. In the meantime Stefan just finished > implementing it, the name of the category is Senders. So, you will > type â#s somethingâ. > > > I now made the category name start with # so that it is closer to the > way to query for it. So, when you do not know how, you will just > search for âsomethingâ. Then you will discover the #Senders category, > and then you can learn that you can search for it. > > Now, you seem to be saying that instead of â#s somethingâ you want to > type â#n somethingâ. For this we would need to find a solution to > reconcile the two. My proposal was to maybe introduce something like > â&n somethingâ to distinguish between the string match of a category > name and a âshortcutâ (I do not know how to call it). I can see how to > do this technically, but I still think this is less discoverable then > the filtering by the name like described above, and it would be an > extra mechanism. We could add this shortcut next to the category name > to address this issue. The interesting thing about the shortcut is > that we could possibly make it less ambiguous. For example, if you > have two categories starting with #S, you will get both when you type > â#S somethingâ, which is less ideal for a common case. So, there are > pros and cons. > > Now, what is missing is a top level category for References, and I > really think we would have what you wanted (and it is a good goal). > The cool thing is that we would be solving this problem with a generic > mechanism. > > So, what I am suggesting is to invest a bit in categories (#Senders > can be integrated now) and then we play with it. > > Is this explanation clearer? Did I misunderstand something? What do > you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Jan 10, 2016, at 10:23 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr >> <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >> >> Ok my last attempt :( >> >> When I look for something there are two cases >> >> - most of the time >> I ********************KKKKNNNOOOOOOOWWWWWWW********* >> is it clear? I know I know I know what I look for and I WANT >> THE FASTER WAY TO GET IT >> => no three clicks and strange navigation. >> >> I want the sender of this message (not the implementors the sender) >> I want that package >> I want the references to this class (not the class and the >> refs that class) >> and I'm ready to learn >> #N for reference >> #n for senders >> #m for implementors >> Because they are the same. >> #e for example like in the finder >> >> - looking around and the system can propose me something >> and I can navigate and think. >> >> But this is ok I just use Spotter to open the class browser and >> all the rest I do it with shortcuts. >> I tried to help but I failed. >> >> I will present Spotter as the great tool to open browser because >> I cannot use it otherwise and >> nobody around me can show me on the spot something more >> efficient than a shortcut in a workspace. >> Or may be I will simply not spend energy doing a videos on >> Spotter because to me this is not ready >> and far less usable than it is supposed to be. >> >> Now to me Spotter is taking a lot of classes for the gain I get. What >> esteban did or what is in Squeak >> is working perfectly for me because Spotter does not let me >> express my needs. >> So may be you have other needs but I would like to know how >> people really works and not >> how Spotter should be usefull. >> >> The video of dimitry shows that well: Just browse a class >> and sometimes you get an implementor >> May be you do not like my mail because they look aggressive but >> when is the last time >> you did a real study with users that were not already convinced. >> Or may be with users >> that loves just one tiny feature and not the one you think that they use? >> >> And BTW it hangs my images two times with 4.0 when I was in >> africa and this was annoying. >> Stef >> >> >>>> I do not get why you cannot >>>> - have a set of fixed most used queries and this will create a >>>> small vocabulary that can be extensible >>>> and it can be mapped to what we do with shortcuts = >>>> reduce cognitive load >>>> and then a full search when you do not know what you are searching. >>>> This is not exclusive and it works for the two scenario. >>> >>> I understand the intention, but I do not understand how these fixed >>> queries are any different than we have now. When you are on the top >>> of Spotter, when you query, you get always the same processors >>> being executed. At first you will not know their names, and you will >>> scroll. And if you see them, you might remember them and reproduce >>> afterwards. Itâs a discoverable learning process that you do not >>> have to remember. >> >> Because with these wonderfull queries I do not get what I'm looking for. >> Because the system is trying to guess what I have in my mind and this >> system is not good for that because I'm thinking about >> the metallica song I'm listening. >> >> >>> The only part that is not discoverable is that # introduces a >>> category search. Thinking loud, I just thought that we can make the >>> label start with # like this (I committed this change): >> >> Sorry but I do not get it. >> >>> >>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>> >>> We also thought of having completion as soon as someone type #. So, >>> you have a kind of a dropdown for the available categories, but we >>> did not get to implement that one. This should solve the >>> discoverability problem even more. What do you think about that? >> Why not >> but just a ghost with >> #n printOn: #m #N .... >> would be a huge improvement >> >> Each time I used Spotter to look for something more than a class >> I could not find it. >> >> >> >>> Regarding the shortcuts, we could associated such shortcuts with a >>> processor, but I would first want to see if we cannot manage to >>> produce a solution with the current set of options. >> >> I was not saying shortcuts and I was thinking the same vocabulary >> >> Cmd+N >> #N >> Cmd+m >> #m >> Cmd+n >> #n >>> >>> >>>> I was discussing with Luc and he made a fun but sad remark >>>> "Since people do not understand well spotter they most of the >>>> time only use it to open a class. >>>> And this is something that he already had before." >>>> I briefly looked at the Youtube video of Chloupis and >>>> So you can have a generic super cool tool, if people do not use it >>>> it defeats its purpose. >>> >>> Certainly. >>> >>> >>>> You can be really happy because you go fast with it but you only. >>> >>> That is not really true :). >> >> See my remark above. >>> >>>> So making sure that the most used actions are really supported is >>>> important. >>> >>> Of course it is. For Senders we did not find a good solution yet >>> that is reasonably fast and useful. Stefan and I are still literally >>> working on this. I think we should be able to have a solution, but >>> we have to see if it is reasonable enough. We will announce it once >>> we have it working. >> >> the problem is that you want to solve everything at once. While >> the divide and conquer is the solution for the first >> scenario I mention. I do not need something that crawls the >> entire system when I have one precise query. >> >> >>> >>> But, really, this tool more than anything allows one to play with >>> possibilities in a couple of lines of code. We want people to play >>> (some did) and to get concrete feedback and possible solutions. I >>> think we should not just say that we need something else before we >>> actually play with it a bit more. >> I do not get it. >> I never worked with me. And so far I did not see anybody >> succeeding to show me how to find something that I cannot >> find faster with a shortcut. >> >> >> >>>> But more important the discoverability is important because there >>>> is not even a help. >>>> Right now as a user I can only guess and often I close spotter and >>>> use my shortcuts. >>>> As a user I see something that ask me about network (and I do not >>>> care) but nothing >>>> that brings me to the next level. >>> >>> This is something we need to work on, but you know, time is limited >>> for us, too. >> >> Add a button and an help text copied from your blog! >> And you will have made a 100% documentation jump. >>> >>> >>>> Most of the time the user forgets the key combination (may be this >>>> will be solved with >>>> the cool shortcut reminder we developed and is under review) >>> >>> All actions in spotter have a visible icon. All. And if you hover >>> over it you get the command. And there are literally 5 such actions. >>> What is missing in this regard from your point of view? >> >> I do not know >> They do not cover what I want to do. >> I do not care of setting >> Most of the time I do not care about seeing all. I saw now >> that you have an arrow to show more than the top 5 >> good but again Cmd-shift > is not easy to type and give pain. >> I do not understand why I should dive in most of the time. >> >> I realised that I could use Spotter when I saw that I can press shift >> under the return because >> before I got immediate pain when trying with the left shift. >> To me left shift is a NO WAY. >> esc (top left) would work but I did not have the time to hack Spotter. >> >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >>> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > www.feenk.com > > "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal." > > > > >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] 636bf8: 50521

by stepharo

Yes this is a glitch I did not know how to solve (must focus on the Pharo Mooc). Le 11/1/16 00:38, David Allouche a Ã©crit : > Cool! Nice addition. > > When the shortcut reminder appears, on my Mac, the Command symbol â is not displayed, instead there is generic symbol that looks like this: â§ (but might be a different one). There might be a problem with some font configuration. > >> Log Message: >> ----------- >> 50521 >> 17348 Enhance shortcut learnability >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17348 >> >> http://files.pharo.org/image/50/50521.zip >> >> > >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] ifError: implementation is bad

by Guillermo Polito

> On 11 ene 2016, at 2:19 p.m., Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2016-01-10 21:29 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>: > Especially it is commonly used scenario by senders of #critical:ifError:. But it is different question. > I propose change ifError: to cull error instance. > > What you think? Can be put it in Pharo 5? Such change can touch some packages > So did you fix it? > > Not yet. I will do this when other my changes on Kernel will be integrated. It gives me thoughts that Kernel should be splitter on small packages > +1111^1111111 We should make a list. Some that should be easy: - Delay should be splitted - Chronology should be splitted One more complicated: - InstructionClient and InstructionStream should be splitted And then, we should also review the API of basic objects Object methods size => 385 Integer methods size => 182 ...

Jan. 11, 2016

Pharo50 spur works on CentOS?

by Blondeau Vincent

Hello, I just wanted to run a latest Pharo image on a CentOS server to run a Zinc server. So I did: curl get.pharo.org/50+vm | bash ./pharo Pharo.image eval "1+1" evals to 2 But, ./pharo Pharo.image --no-quit eval "ZnServer startOn: 8080." returns: ioLoadModule(/root/Pharo/pharo-vm/libFT2Plugin.so): libfreetype.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory So the server is not launched... What are the libs that should be installed on the machine? Should I take another VM? BTW, why a headless image needs a freetype lib? Thanks in advance, Cheers, Vincent Blondeau ________________________________ Ce message et les pi?ces jointes sont confidentiels et r?serv?s ? l'usage exclusif de ses destinataires. Il peut ?galement ?tre prot?g? par le secret professionnel. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci d'en avertir imm?diatement l'exp?diteur et de le d?truire. L'int?grit? du message ne pouvant ?tre assur?e sur Internet, la responsabilit? de Worldline ne pourra ?tre recherch?e quant au contenu de ce message. Bien que les meilleurs efforts soient faits pour maintenir cette transmission exempte de tout virus, l'exp?diteur ne donne aucune garantie ? cet ?gard et sa responsabilit? ne saurait ?tre recherch?e pour tout dommage r?sultant d'un virus transmis. This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for the addressee; it may also be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy it. As its integrity cannot be secured on the Internet, the Worldline liability cannot be triggered for the message content. Although the sender endeavours to maintain a computer virus-free network, the sender does not warrant that this transmission is virus-free and will not be liable for any damages resulting from any virus transmitted.

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] 17348 Enhance shortcut learnability

by stepharo

Henrik Thanks. What I would love to get is another little morph below the shortcut with the name of the menu like that we can learn that the tools xxx is launched with shortcut cmd X I think that we should have a preference that does not flush the counters at startup Stef Le 11/1/16 12:14, Henrik Nergaard a Ã©crit : > > Somehow it integrated > > ______________ > > Name: SLICE-Issue-17348-Enhance-shortcut-learnability-tr.2 > > Author: tr > > Time: 8 January 2016, 4:18:55.135106 pm > > UUID: 0aa30f76-84f3-0449-acde-172e56ea3615 > > Ancestors: SLICE-Issue-17348-Enhance-shortcut-learnability-tr.1 > > Dependencies: Morphic-Base-tr.526 > > better version > > instead of: > > ____________ > > Name: SLICE-Issue-17348-Enhance-shortcut-learnability-HenrikNergaard.2 > > Author: HenrikNergaard > > Time: 8 January 2016, 11:01:18.490743 pm > > UUID: 2a6f1c3f-a0b3-524d-9095-02fb42ab8358 > > Ancestors: SLICE-Issue-17348-Enhance-shortcut-learnability-tr.1 > > Dependencies: Morphic-Base-HenrikNergaard.526 > > Refactor of initial code. > > I have updated and merged a new slice (in Image 50521) which should > fix it. The correct version that should be integrated is: > > Name: SLICE-Issue-17348-Enhance-shortcut-learnability-HenrikNergaard.5 > > Author: HenrikNergaard > > Time: 11 January 2016, 12:17:08.504781 am > > UUID: f0271c17-07a7-0d4e-a6eb-d2fef9b2853c > > Ancestors: > SLICE-Issue-17348-Enhance-shortcut-learnability-HenrikNergaard.4 > > Dependencies: Morphic-Base-HenrikNergaard.530 > > remove unused variable. > > Best regards, > > Henrik > > *From:*Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] *On Behalf > Of *Marcus Denker > *Sent:* Monday, January 11, 2016 11:35 AM > *To:* Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-dev] 17348 Enhance shortcut learnability > > Hello, > > I wil reopen the issue and put your comment there. > > Marcus > > On 11 Jan 2016, at 09:56, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com > <mailto:nicolaihess@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Can please someone translate / change the text in the > > Shortcut reminder Morph settings.( that got integrated in 50521) > > see my comment on > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17348/Enhance-shortcut-learnability#BugEv… > > and I asked for resubmitting the changes with proper author initials > > instead of "tr" and if he signed the license agreement. > > Anyone knows more about "tr" ? > > And I am not sure if the right version is integrated. > > nicolai >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to get launcher launching Spur images?

by stepharo

Ok I will do the same then ;) Le 11/1/16 13:09, Ben Coman a Ã©crit : > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 1:49 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > Hi > > I changed the setting to be the following but I cannot get a spur > image started on mac. > Does anybody succeed? > > Stef > > > I cheated and started with latest Pharo 5 Spur and installed > PharoLauncher from the Catalog Browser. > (I should soon try an image with old vm) > cheers -ben >

Jan. 11, 2016