January 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Seeing class method template when there is no protocol

by Dimitris Chloupis

Plus any self respecting IDE has some form of code critic enabled by default, it would be weird to disable it in pharo when Pharo boast that it has a powerful IDE. and generally I agree with Esteban post, except scoped browsing, I have not figure out its usefulness yet. On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 7:26 PM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > well, I disagree :) > > On 17 Jan 2016, at 17:47, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > On 17 Jan 2016, at 17:13, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > > Le 17/1/16 16:09, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : > > On 17 Jan 2016, at 15:52, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Maybe add a "New Method" button somewhere that changes the class > definition with a method template ? > > But only when it is needed. > > The overall Nautilus interface is becoming way too busy and distracting. > > > Where? > Because we removed features so I'm surprised and we wanted to remove more > but people use them. > > > Let see (this is my personal opinion, not necessarily the most beginner > friendly view): > > <Screen Shot 2016-01-17 at 17.39.34.png> > > > - I never use the history navigator, not the drop down, nor the arrows > - The previous location of variables was better (small icon) > - I never use the weird search/filter field with the pattern > - I never use scoped browsing > - I never use format as you read > - I never want line numbers > - I never want to know where the cursor is > - I only want critics when I say so, not all the time > > > - I never use history navigator neither > - I like variables where they are now :) > - I use âweirdâ search/filter all the time > - I use very often scoped browsing (I do a lot of refactors) > - I do not use format as you read neither, but I like to have it thereâ¦ > can be useful. > - line numbers I do not care, but that space will be useful for > breakpoints/etc. > - I need to know where cursor is, or at least I feel myself more confident > when I know. > - I not only want critics *always*: I also want critics always for > everybody: I spotted many bugs I could made just for having them thereâ¦ and > in particular newbies can find them useful :) > > > Again, this is my POV. And I definitively still want to have these > features around, I just don't want to *see* them all the time. > > > And these are mineâ¦ :P > Thatâs why we should not take *our* convenience as a model (we can, after > all modify a lot of that just with settings or ignoring them :P) > > In my own feedback, Nautilus (and the IDE in general) has become a lot > more attractive to newcomers now, and the visual contamination (again, as > far as Iâve been told by newbies and students, etc.) is not that. Quite the > contrary they feel it as âreassuringâ (because it resembles a bit more what > they know from other IDEs). > > My idea is that newbies will welcome to see them all the time, and we > (power users) can disable what we do not want in settings (and we can have > a preference with our ownâ¦ preferences :P. > Is the same I do about Dark Theme for example: I activate it always by > default. > Or with the Growl notifications: I hate them in bottom-left corner, I > would prefer it in top-rightâ¦ or bottom rightâ¦ then I just change it :) > > So +1 enhance configurability of the system, -100 to remove/hide features > that are important specially for newbies. > > cheers, > Esteban > > > Spotter gets me to classes & methods, the rest is command-click and short > cuts. > > Stef > > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 8:42 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > HI > > yesterday during my exercise session a student was puzzled because > he could not see the method template on the class side when there is not > protocol. > I had to create first a protocol. > > I do not have the solution because I understand why it is like that. > Because Nautilus displays > the class definition first and when we click on protocol the template. > But I would be interested to see if there is an alternative. > > Stef > > > > > > > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] gtdebugger in pharo 5.0

by stepharo

End of this week else I will just do it and people will adapt. > Hi, > > Indeed, this is the goal. What is the deadline until when we could still do something visual with the debugger? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> On Jan 17, 2016, at 9:55 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> Please publish this change fast because after all the coding videos of the mooc will be impacted. >> >> Le 17/1/16 09:05, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >>> Hi, >>> >>> Indeed. See below how it looks like in the latest development version. >>> >>> We have not yet integrate this one because we still need little changes in FastTable to be able to resize columns and not make the column names clickable. >>> >>> >>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 8:07 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Cyril Ferlicot D. >>>> <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> And more, it make the debugger "ventilated" (I don't know if the term >>>>> work in English too). I mean that with more space between the classes >>>>> and the methods it's better for the eye of the user. >>>> Never heard the term used that way in graphic design, but it makes >>>> perfect sense. >>>> cheers -ben >>>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "If you can't say why something is relevant, >>> it probably isn't." >>> > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to know her." > > > > > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] roassal2 seems to work well now

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 18:02, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > With the latest development, Roassal2 seems to work well. > > For example, the rendering of the logical view of Glamour browsers was broken, and now it works well. This is great news. > > <Inspector on a GLMSystemWindow(771559424).png> > > Is this just my impression? Do we know if there are still open issues with the FFI in this area? Iâm glad some things has been covered, but as much as I would like to declare FFI work finished, Iâm still working on it and I will spend a lot more time on stabilising (for example, Iâm still having crashings in Johanâs workâ¦ crashes that are FFI relatedâ¦ some problem when copying bits to world surface that I bet can affect roassal2 too) But wellâ¦ we are a lot better now than 2 weeks ago :) Esteban > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > www.feenk.com > > "Every thing should have the right to be different." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Seeing class method template when there is no protocol

by stepharo

> > Indeed this is your POV. > - I never use the history navigator, not the drop down, nor the arrows Me neither I we removed it but people uses it. > - The previous location of variables was better (small icon) I do not know I could never understand them. ;) > - I never use the weird search/filter field with the pattern I use it all the time > - I never use scoped browsing all the time > - I never use format as you read all the time > - I never want line numbers Indeed I do not care > - I never want to know where the cursor is > - I only want critics when I say so, not all the time > > Again, this is my POV. And I definitively still want to have these > features around, I just don't want to *see* them all the time. > > Spotter gets me to classes & methods, the rest is command-click and > short cuts. > >> Stef >> >>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 8:42 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr >>>> <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >>>> HI >>>> >>>> yesterday during my exercise session a student was puzzled because >>>> he could not see the method template on the class side when there >>>> is not protocol. >>>> I had to create first a protocol. >>>> >>>> I do not have the solution because I understand why it is like >>>> that. Because Nautilus displays >>>> the class definition first and when we click on protocol the template. >>>> But I would be interested to see if there is an alternative. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by stepharo

Ok I'm wrong and stupid. Thanks for the reminder. I disabled QA in the Mooc images. > Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone instructing. But itâs always a true information. So here we are not dealing with the faults of algorithm but with a way we are communicating a data with a user. > > Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse positivesâ :). > I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics by their severity. > > Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from the beginning will payoff in the future. > > Cheers. > Uko > > > > >> On 17 Jan 2016, at 16:11, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Le 17/01/2016 16:04, stepharo a Ã©crit : >>> We have also >>> instance variables not written or read >>> class comment is empty >>> >>> And I find that disruptive for a student starting with Pharo. >>> >> I find that instructing. >> When I create a class and I see those messages it's like "objectives". I >> need to correct that and it help me not to avoid the documentation. >> >> -- >> Cyril Ferlicot >> >> http://www.synectique.eu >> >> 165 Avenue Bretagne >> Lille 59000 France >> > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Seeing class method template when there is no protocol

by Esteban Lorenzano

well, I disagree :) > On 17 Jan 2016, at 17:47, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > >> On 17 Jan 2016, at 17:13, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >> >> >> >> Le 17/1/16 16:09, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 15:52, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com <mailto:g.cotelli@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Maybe add a "New Method" button somewhere that changes the class definition with a method template ? >>> But only when it is needed. >>> >>> The overall Nautilus interface is becoming way too busy and distracting. >> >> Where? >> Because we removed features so I'm surprised and we wanted to remove more >> but people use them. > > Let see (this is my personal opinion, not necessarily the most beginner friendly view): > > <Screen Shot 2016-01-17 at 17.39.34.png> > > - I never use the history navigator, not the drop down, nor the arrows > - The previous location of variables was better (small icon) > - I never use the weird search/filter field with the pattern > - I never use scoped browsing > - I never use format as you read > - I never want line numbers > - I never want to know where the cursor is > - I only want critics when I say so, not all the time - I never use history navigator neither - I like variables where they are now :) - I use âweirdâ search/filter all the time - I use very often scoped browsing (I do a lot of refactors) - I do not use format as you read neither, but I like to have it thereâ¦ can be useful. - line numbers I do not care, but that space will be useful for breakpoints/etc. - I need to know where cursor is, or at least I feel myself more confident when I know. - I not only want critics *always*: I also want critics always for everybody: I spotted many bugs I could made just for having them thereâ¦ and in particular newbies can find them useful :) > > Again, this is my POV. And I definitively still want to have these features around, I just don't want to *see* them all the time. And these are mineâ¦ :P Thatâs why we should not take *our* convenience as a model (we can, after all modify a lot of that just with settings or ignoring them :P) In my own feedback, Nautilus (and the IDE in general) has become a lot more attractive to newcomers now, and the visual contamination (again, as far as Iâve been told by newbies and students, etc.) is not that. Quite the contrary they feel it as âreassuringâ (because it resembles a bit more what they know from other IDEs). My idea is that newbies will welcome to see them all the time, and we (power users) can disable what we do not want in settings (and we can have a preference with our ownâ¦ preferences :P. Is the same I do about Dark Theme for example: I activate it always by default. Or with the Growl notifications: I hate them in bottom-left corner, I would prefer it in top-rightâ¦ or bottom rightâ¦ then I just change it :) So +1 enhance configurability of the system, -100 to remove/hide features that are important specially for newbies. cheers, Esteban > > Spotter gets me to classes & methods, the rest is command-click and short cuts. > >> Stef >> >>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 8:42 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >>>> HI >>>> >>>> yesterday during my exercise session a student was puzzled because >>>> he could not see the method template on the class side when there is not protocol. >>>> I had to create first a protocol. >>>> >>>> I do not have the solution because I understand why it is like that. Because Nautilus displays >>>> the class definition first and when we click on protocol the template. >>>> But I would be interested to see if there is an alternative. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by Eliot Miranda

> On Jan 17, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > > Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone instructing. But itâs always a true information. So here we are not dealing with the faults of algorithm but with a way we are communicating a data with a user. > > Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse positivesâ :). > I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics by their severity. > > Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from the beginning will payoff in the future. +1000! > > Cheers. > Uko > > > > >> On 17 Jan 2016, at 16:11, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Le 17/01/2016 16:04, stepharo a Ã©crit : >>> We have also >>> instance variables not written or read >>> class comment is empty >>> >>> And I find that disruptive for a student starting with Pharo. >> >> I find that instructing. >> When I create a class and I see those messages it's like "objectives". I >> need to correct that and it help me not to avoid the documentation. >> >> -- >> Cyril Ferlicot >> >> http://www.synectique.eu >> >> 165 Avenue Bretagne >> Lille 59000 France > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by Dimitris Chloupis

"Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from the beginning will payoff in the future." Amen ! On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 7:07 PM Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone instructing. But > itâs always a true information. So here we are not dealing with the faults > of algorithm but with a way we are communicating a data with a user. > > Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse positivesâ :). > I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics by their > severity. > > Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class > comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from > the beginning will payoff in the future. > > Cheers. > Uko > > > > > > On 17 Jan 2016, at 16:11, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Le 17/01/2016 16:04, stepharo a Ã©crit : > >> We have also > >> instance variables not written or read > >> class comment is empty > >> > >> And I find that disruptive for a student starting with Pharo. > >> > > > > I find that instructing. > > When I create a class and I see those messages it's like "objectives". I > > need to correct that and it help me not to avoid the documentation. > > > > -- > > Cyril Ferlicot > > > > http://www.synectique.eu > > > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > > Lille 59000 France > > > > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by Yuriy Tymchuk

Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone instructing. But itâs always a true information. So here we are not dealing with the faults of algorithm but with a way we are communicating a data with a user. Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse positivesâ :). I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics by their severity. Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from the beginning will payoff in the future. Cheers. Uko > On 17 Jan 2016, at 16:11, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Le 17/01/2016 16:04, stepharo a Ã©crit : >> We have also >> instance variables not written or read >> class comment is empty >> >> And I find that disruptive for a student starting with Pharo. >> > > I find that instructing. > When I create a class and I see those messages it's like "objectives". I > need to correct that and it help me not to avoid the documentation. > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > > http://www.synectique.eu > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > Lille 59000 France >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: Can OSProcess functionality be implemented using FFI instead of plugin?

by Eliot Miranda

> On Jan 17, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Levente, > >>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 7:30 AM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)caesar.elte.hu> wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Eliot Miranda wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)caesar.elte.hu> wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> >>> (Still no quote.) >>> >>> How will you read the output of the process without having your image's process blocked in the FFI callout? >>> How will you make sure that writes to input of the process won't block the FFI callout? >>> This presupposes the threaded FFI. The threaded FFI allows the VM to make any number of blocking calls, adding a new thread to run the VM whenever the VM is stalled when the heartbeat beats. hence one can freely read and write to/from i/o blocking i/o streams >>> (including pipes and sockets) or blocking database connexions, etc, all without stating that the FFI call must be done in a special way, since all calls through the FFI can block without blocking the VM. >> >> I think it was you who said (in a discussion with Craig) that the threaded FFI was not production ready. Is it ready for produciton now? > > No, but I expect this is the year it will be. Spur provides pinning, so the VM infrastructure is there. The Pharo community plus some commercial relationships that have developed are providing funding. Esteban Lorenzano and I want to collaborate on this and I hope to get help from some other people, such as Ronie Salgado. And Mariano is working on an important part of the problem. So I feel there's sufficient momentum for us to realize the threaded FFI this year. and when Craig Latta tried to use it late last year it worked up to a point. The thing that didn't work was callbacks from foreign threads. So it looks like the core threading code is not too far away from working. Another really important part, bigger than threading, is marshaling. Being able to handle the full x85_64 abi requires a better approach than interpreting tops signatures. Igor's NativeBoost gave an example of how to generate marshaling machine code, but alas only for x86. But Sista includes an extensible bytecode set for arbitrary instructions. Sista is close to production, and we know the bytecode set works. So the plan is to use these bytecodes to do the marshaling. That neatly solves the problems of a) associating marshaling machine code with a method and b) marshaling in an interpreted stack VM, since the bytecode set works in any Cog VM. So the plan is to write an ABI compiler from C signatures to marshaling code to replace the interpreted FFI plugin. So this year I hope we will have an excellent high performance FFI. >> Levente > > _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone) > >>> Note that the scheme is also amenable to plugins, but the plugins must be rewritten to include the release vm/acquire vm calls around a blocking call. With the threaded VM the FFI includes these calls around every FFI call. >>> HTH >>> _,,,^..^,,,_ >>> best, Eliot

Jan. 17, 2016