January 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by Dimitris Chloupis

you are the boss... go for it and anywhere I can help I am here. I want Pharo to succeed :) On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 7:48 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > Seriously though its not that necessary to baby sit begineers, the > important thing for a beginner is to love coding. I remember when I started > I would have begged to have an IDE like Pharo and a language like pharo, > instead all I had was Locomotive Basic, command line and a really badly > written and even worse translated book. I would have begged for code > critics . > > Not for the first class :) > > > An IDE that tells me what I do wrong ? Are you serious ? It would have > been sci fiction in 1988. > > :) but now there is eclipse. > > Did I hate coding ? No > > Seriously who expectes coding to be easy at start.... only lazy and naive > people. Neither make good coders anyway. I think with your passion about > coding and the great design of Pharo as an IDE it will be hard not to fall > in love with coding. All begineer hand is friendly hand to point them > towards the right direction, just some reassurance that they do things > right and that their mind is on the right path. > > A side note, I am a bit sceptical for your decision to go down the Pharo 5 > route, are we sure Pharo 5 will be stable enough for a begineer to use in > the time of the MOOC ? > > WE MUST MAKE IT STABLE BY THEN! > We should release often and stable. > And Pharo 50 should be. Because after we have Pharo 6.0 and I want Xtreams > and Bloc > > > > Esteban already fixed most of my problems with pharo 5, I am actually > closing my bug reports now, but still it seems to me a bit risky and maybe > it puts unnecessary pressure on Esteban and the Moose people. > > I any case I wish you success with MOOC :) > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 7:27 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Ok I'm wrong and stupid. >> Thanks for the reminder. >> I disabled QA in the Mooc images. >> >> > Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone instructing. >> But itâs always a true information. So here we are not dealing with the >> faults of algorithm but with a way we are communicating a data with a user. >> > >> > Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse positivesâ :). >> > I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics by >> their severity. >> > >> > Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class >> comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from >> the beginning will payoff in the future. >> > >> > Cheers. >> > Uko >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> On 17 Jan 2016, at 16:11, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Le 17/01/2016 16:04, stepharo a Ã©crit : >> >>> We have also >> >>> instance variables not written or read >> >>> class comment is empty >> >>> >> >>> And I find that disruptive for a student starting with Pharo. >> >>> >> >> I find that instructing. >> >> When I create a class and I see those messages it's like "objectives". >> I >> >> need to correct that and it help me not to avoid the documentation. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Cyril Ferlicot >> >> >> >> http://www.synectique.eu >> >> >> >> 165 Avenue Bretagne >> >> Lille 59000 France >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by stepharo

> > Seriously though its not that necessary to baby sit begineers, the > important thing for a beginner is to love coding. I remember when I > started I would have begged to have an IDE like Pharo and a language > like pharo, instead all I had was Locomotive Basic, command line and a > really badly written and even worse translated book. I would have > begged for code critics . Not for the first class :) > An IDE that tells me what I do wrong ? Are you serious ? It would have > been sci fiction in 1988. :) but now there is eclipse. > Did I hate coding ? No > > Seriously who expectes coding to be easy at start.... only lazy and > naive people. Neither make good coders anyway. I think with your > passion about coding and the great design of Pharo as an IDE it will > be hard not to fall in love with coding. All begineer hand is friendly > hand to point them towards the right direction, just some reassurance > that they do things right and that their mind is on the right path. > > A side note, I am a bit sceptical for your decision to go down the > Pharo 5 route, are we sure Pharo 5 will be stable enough for a > begineer to use in the time of the MOOC ? WE MUST MAKE IT STABLE BY THEN! We should release often and stable. And Pharo 50 should be. Because after we have Pharo 6.0 and I want Xtreams and Bloc > Esteban already fixed most of my problems with pharo 5, I am actually > closing my bug reports now, but still it seems to me a bit risky and > maybe it puts unnecessary pressure on Esteban and the Moose people. > > I any case I wish you success with MOOC :) > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 7:27 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > Ok I'm wrong and stupid. > Thanks for the reminder. > I disabled QA in the Mooc images. > > > Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone > instructing. But itâs always a true information. So here we are > not dealing with the faults of algorithm but with a way we are > communicating a data with a user. > > > > Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse > positivesâ :). > > I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics > by their severity. > > > > Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write > class comments. You donât need special skills for that and making > it a habit from the beginning will payoff in the future. > > > > Cheers. > > Uko > > > > > > > > > >> On 17 Jan 2016, at 16:11, Cyril Ferlicot D. > <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com <mailto:cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Le 17/01/2016 16:04, stepharo a Ã©crit : > >>> We have also > >>> instance variables not written or read > >>> class comment is empty > >>> > >>> And I find that disruptive for a student starting with Pharo. > >>> > >> I find that instructing. > >> When I create a class and I see those messages it's like > "objectives". I > >> need to correct that and it help me not to avoid the documentation. > >> > >> -- > >> Cyril Ferlicot > >> > >> http://www.synectique.eu > >> > >> 165 Avenue Bretagne > >> Lille 59000 France > >> > > > > > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by stepharo

>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone instructing. But itâs always a true information. So here we are not dealing with the faults of algorithm but with a way we are communicating a data with a user. >>> >>> Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse positivesâ :). >>> I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics by their severity. >>> >>> Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from the beginning will payoff in the future. >> +1000! > +1 me too. > I remember when Stef introduced the mark on uncomment classes I was against: I was finding the exclamation mark too disruptive. Then time proved me wrong: is a nice way to remember people they need to add class comments (and my own production of comments increased considerably). ;D > I think QA will do the same: it might look disruptive, but is educative in fact. Yes but you see when this is really first first first class you write in Pharo.... So I want everybody to have QA on! and to fix them! And I want more rules I want specific rules for everything every frameworks but not on the first class a newbie is writing. People should remember when is the last time they defined a class for the first time. I did Python exercises with my son and it was in plain text editor and it was working. Stef

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new debugger shortcuts

by Francisco Ortiz PeÃ±aloza

I almost forgot, can we've a "create" shortcut? Regards On Sunday, 17 January 2016, Francisco Ortiz PeÃ±aloza <patchinko(a)gmail.com> wrote: > +1000! Thank youuuu! > > On Sunday, 17 January 2016, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tudor(a)tudorgirba.com');>> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The existing debugger shortcuts are conflicting with code editing >> shortcuts. >> >> Now, I defined the following shortcuts: >> resume - cmd + r >> restart - cmd + shift + a >> over - cmd + shift + o >> through - cmd + shift + t >> into - cmd + e >> >> There is also a test in GT that checks for double meanings. Please let me >> know if you see problems with these, and comment on the issue here: >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17408/The-generic-stack-debugger-defines-… >> >> We want to integrate this as soon as possible, so please react as soon as >> you can :) >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "When people care, great things can happen." >> >> >> >> >> >>

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by Dimitris Chloupis

We all hate you Stef , its not you , its us :D Seriously though its not that necessary to baby sit begineers, the important thing for a beginner is to love coding. I remember when I started I would have begged to have an IDE like Pharo and a language like pharo, instead all I had was Locomotive Basic, command line and a really badly written and even worse translated book. I would have begged for code critics . An IDE that tells me what I do wrong ? Are you serious ? It would have been sci fiction in 1988. Did I hate coding ? No Seriously who expectes coding to be easy at start.... only lazy and naive people. Neither make good coders anyway. I think with your passion about coding and the great design of Pharo as an IDE it will be hard not to fall in love with coding. All begineer hand is friendly hand to point them towards the right direction, just some reassurance that they do things right and that their mind is on the right path. A side note, I am a bit sceptical for your decision to go down the Pharo 5 route, are we sure Pharo 5 will be stable enough for a begineer to use in the time of the MOOC ? Esteban already fixed most of my problems with pharo 5, I am actually closing my bug reports now, but still it seems to me a bit risky and maybe it puts unnecessary pressure on Esteban and the Moose people. I any case I wish you success with MOOC :) On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 7:27 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Ok I'm wrong and stupid. > Thanks for the reminder. > I disabled QA in the Mooc images. > > > Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone instructing. > But itâs always a true information. So here we are not dealing with the > faults of algorithm but with a way we are communicating a data with a user. > > > > Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse positivesâ :). > > I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics by their > severity. > > > > Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class > comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from > the beginning will payoff in the future. > > > > Cheers. > > Uko > > > > > > > > > >> On 17 Jan 2016, at 16:11, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Le 17/01/2016 16:04, stepharo a Ã©crit : > >>> We have also > >>> instance variables not written or read > >>> class comment is empty > >>> > >>> And I find that disruptive for a student starting with Pharo. > >>> > >> I find that instructing. > >> When I create a class and I see those messages it's like "objectives". I > >> need to correct that and it help me not to avoid the documentation. > >> > >> -- > >> Cyril Ferlicot > >> > >> http://www.synectique.eu > >> > >> 165 Avenue Bretagne > >> Lille 59000 France > >> > > > > > > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] gtdebugger in pharo 5.0

by stepharo

I'm going over the pdf descriptions of the lecture and after I will follow the pdfs and record. Stef Le 17/1/16 18:32, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > Great. That should be enough time to do a couple of iterations. > > Doru > >> On Jan 17, 2016, at 6:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> End of this week else I will just do it and people will adapt. >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Indeed, this is the goal. What is the deadline until when we could still do something visual with the debugger? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 9:55 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>> Please publish this change fast because after all the coding videos of the mooc will be impacted. >>>> >>>> Le 17/1/16 09:05, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Indeed. See below how it looks like in the latest development version. >>>>> >>>>> We have not yet integrate this one because we still need little changes in FastTable to be able to resize columns and not make the column names clickable. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 8:07 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Cyril Ferlicot D. >>>>>> <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> And more, it make the debugger "ventilated" (I don't know if the term >>>>>>> work in English too). I mean that with more space between the classes >>>>>>> and the methods it's better for the eye of the user. >>>>>> Never heard the term used that way in graphic design, but it makes >>>>>> perfect sense. >>>>>> cheers -ben >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>> >>>>> "If you can't say why something is relevant, >>>>> it probably isn't." >>>>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to know her." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] new debugger shortcuts

by Francisco Ortiz PeÃ±aloza

+1000! Thank youuuu! On Sunday, 17 January 2016, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > The existing debugger shortcuts are conflicting with code editing > shortcuts. > > Now, I defined the following shortcuts: > resume - cmd + r > restart - cmd + shift + a > over - cmd + shift + o > through - cmd + shift + t > into - cmd + e > > There is also a test in GT that checks for double meanings. Please let me > know if you see problems with these, and comment on the issue here: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17408/The-generic-stack-debugger-defines-… > > We want to integrate this as soon as possible, so please react as soon as > you can :) > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "When people care, great things can happen." > > > > > >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] Why there is no setting to disable QA?

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 18:12, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On Jan 17, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> Thatâs the point. Someone finds this disruptive, someone instructing. But itâs always a true information. So here we are not dealing with the faults of algorithm but with a way we are communicating a data with a user. >> >> Thatâs why I kindly ask not to call this things âfalse positivesâ :). >> I thinks that it makes sense to be bale to disable some critics by their severity. >> >> Also I think that itâs a good thing to teach beginners to write class comments. You donât need special skills for that and making it a habit from the beginning will payoff in the future. > > +1000! +1 me too. I remember when Stef introduced the mark on uncomment classes I was against: I was finding the exclamation mark too disruptive. Then time proved me wrong: is a nice way to remember people they need to add class comments (and my own production of comments increased considerably). I think QA will do the same: it might look disruptive, but is educative in fact. cheers, Esteban > >> >> Cheers. >> Uko >> >> >> >> >>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 16:11, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Le 17/01/2016 16:04, stepharo a Ã©crit : >>>> We have also >>>> instance variables not written or read >>>> class comment is empty >>>> >>>> And I find that disruptive for a student starting with Pharo. >>> >>> I find that instructing. >>> When I create a class and I see those messages it's like "objectives". I >>> need to correct that and it help me not to avoid the documentation. >>> >>> -- >>> Cyril Ferlicot >>> >>> http://www.synectique.eu >>> >>> 165 Avenue Bretagne >>> Lille 59000 France >> >> >

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] roassal2 seems to work well now

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > On Jan 17, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On 17 Jan 2016, at 18:02, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> With the latest development, Roassal2 seems to work well. >> >> For example, the rendering of the logical view of Glamour browsers was broken, and now it works well. This is great news. >> >> <Inspector on a GLMSystemWindow(771559424).png> >> >> Is this just my impression? Do we know if there are still open issues with the FFI in this area? > > Iâm glad some things has been covered, but as much as I would like to declare FFI work finished, Iâm still working on it and I will spend a lot more time on stabilising (for example, Iâm still having crashings in Johanâs workâ¦ crashes that are FFI relatedâ¦ some problem when copying bits to world surface that I bet can affect roassal2 too) > But wellâ¦ we are a lot better now than 2 weeks ago :) That is what I am saying :). Great work, indeed! I sent this mail exactly to fish for less obvious problems as soon as possible because they will help you (and everyone else) :) Cheers, Doru > Esteban > >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Every thing should have the right to be different." >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch >> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

Jan. 17, 2016

Re: [Pharo-dev] gtdebugger in pharo 5.0

by Tudor Girba

Great. That should be enough time to do a couple of iterations. Doru > On Jan 17, 2016, at 6:30 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > End of this week else I will just do it and people will adapt. > >> Hi, >> >> Indeed, this is the goal. What is the deadline until when we could still do something visual with the debugger? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 9:55 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>> Please publish this change fast because after all the coding videos of the mooc will be impacted. >>> >>> Le 17/1/16 09:05, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Indeed. See below how it looks like in the latest development version. >>>> >>>> We have not yet integrate this one because we still need little changes in FastTable to be able to resize columns and not make the column names clickable. >>>> >>>> >>>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 8:07 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Cyril Ferlicot D. >>>>> <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> And more, it make the debugger "ventilated" (I don't know if the term >>>>>> work in English too). I mean that with more space between the classes >>>>>> and the methods it's better for the eye of the user. >>>>> Never heard the term used that way in graphic design, but it makes >>>>> perfect sense. >>>>> cheers -ben >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> www.feenk.com >>>> >>>> "If you can't say why something is relevant, >>>> it probably isn't." >>>> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to know her." >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Being happy is a matter of choice."

Jan. 17, 2016