April 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving the documentation model

by Stephan Eggermont

On 21/04/15 18:18, Dmitri Zagidulin wrote: > I strongly believe that the WYSIWYG editing route is a fundamentally > worse approach for documentation (and textbooks) than text-based > formatting such as Pillar, Markdown and Asciidoc. I have a lot of experience using both. The best experience I've had using Framemaker. Comparing it to Word is a soemwhat similar experience to explaining non-smalltalkers about image-based development. > Specifically, it will result in less community contribution, and it will > make distributed version control of documents much harder. There is actually no reason why that should be the case, especially when using semantic markup. I agree that there are lots of WYSIWYG programs that make it difficult. > Instead of going the route that you propose (which essentially attempts > to Word or Google Docs in-image), My worst experiences with large documents were using Word. It is designed for small documents, and it took Microsoft 10 years to make bullet lists work. > Side-by-side instant preview makes it possible to have the best of both > worlds, text-based markup and WYSIWYG, without the typical WYSIWYG > drawbacks (of making distributed version control difficult, first and > foremost). I have used side-by-side instant preview since it became available (Textures on a Macintosh SE/30). Nice for maths, not for large documents. > 2) Version control, especially with more than one or two collaborators, > is a *nightmare* with WYSIWYG tools. Look at what the state of the art > is, at what Microsoft's Word and Google's Docs have been able to > accomplish, in terms of revision control. Neither are state of the art. Both are designed for small documents. > Despite unimaginable amounts of person-hours of development put into it, > it's pretty much unusable I fully agree that the collaboration features of Word are unusable. Word is feature checklist driven. > We are not Microsoft or Google. We are not going to solve the WYSIWYG > source control / version control problem better than they are. > 4) The ability to render source text-based markup into multiple formats > (PDF, HTML, etc), is *essential*. Going from WYSIWYG to HTML is > impossible (all attempts to do so, by Microsoft, Adobe, etc, have > utterly failed). Repurposing is something Adobe still sells Framemaker for on Windows. Works perfectly fine. Even has an API. > Whereas going from text-based to print/PDF is very > doable (see LaTeX, the entirety of HTML ecosystem, Pillar, etc). > This is a serious problem that FrameMaker never had to solve. It is solved by Framemaker. That is an expensive product, so there are not too many people knowing it. Stephan

April 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Center morph in a morph

by Yuriy Tymchuk

> On 21 Apr 2015, at 22:36, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Uko2 wrote >> Iâve tried to use: >> listCentering: #center; >> ... >> with TableLayout > > That worked for me... > <http://forum.world.st/file/n4821006/Screenshot_2015-04-21_16.png> > > You sent #listCentering to the parent Morph, right? > > BTW for exploration, a really easy way to see what these do it to play with > them via the red halo (in the Layout sub-menu)â¦ Wow, Iâve never thought about this. Thanks, Iâve figured out my problem > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Center-morph-in-a-morph-tp4820943p4821006.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

April 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving the documentation model

by Stephan Eggermont

On 21/04/15 17:59, Damien Cassou wrote: > > stephan <stephan(a)stack.nl> writes: > >> TL;DR: Some roadmap ideas. Looks like a lot of work. >> Comments and improvements welcome: >> We should replace the Pillar document format >> by a better one, suitable for WYSIWYG editing and >> creating long documents. > > I agree that Pillar is far from perfect. Do you propose to (1) start > something from scratch or to (2) improve Pillar? If you propose (1), how > much do you plan to spend each day and for how long before reaching > Pillar current's state? If you propose (2), you can start doing > something small today and finish the same day. With (2) you could > improve the current situation before we go to bed. Well, this was a description of where I would like to go on the map. My first question is, are there enough people who want to go there too, or am I aiming in the wrong direction? And if it is a desirable destination, what small experiments can we do to verify the reachability, and get an idea of how much work this would be. Stephan

April 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving the documentation model

by kilon alios

for the record this is something I am interested into contributing. It would be great if we coordinate effort . I don't make big promises but I can definitely spare some hours or even days. I am in the process of documenting Morphic and I definitely want something more interactive something more Pharo ;) On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 12:01 AM Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > philippeback wrote > > Pillar is fine as long as we aren't forced into the backend quirks to get > > a > > given output. > > This is actually much more productive than I thought it would be :) We've > identified some key intentions: > - easy to version > - easy to contribute > - live (whether preview rendering or model being worked on) > - portable (to other formats); i.e. not tied to one backend; I would add > here that any syntax is just a serialized, dead form of the live model, > which is what I really want to think about > - easy to use for beginners (like WYSIWYG, live help) > - pathway to efficient use for experts (a la command line, shortcuts, > gestures; not mouse selection) > > That's a really great list. And WYSIWYG and Pillar are two different > explorations into that problem space. But there is no point trying to > convince through words, only to produce your favored approach that adresses > those points more effectively than the other approach, or maybe we end up > with two amazing approaches, like emacs and vim and we can happily debate > forever ;) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Improving-the-documentation-model-tp4820814p4821009.h… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

April 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo5] All systems on go!

by kilon alios

yeap that was it, it now displays all , thank you Nicolai :) On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 12:00 AM Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > 2015-04-21 22:47 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > >> I cant see pharo classes in Nautiluse apart from a few, unless i open >> them with GTSpotter , then they get added to Nautilus. Is this normal ? Is >> it because I miss the sources file ? and if yes where I find it ? >> > > No, there is an active package pane filter. I thnk this happend by > accident, the field should be empty. > > > >> >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com >> > wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Marcus!! :) >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Cheers, >>> Sean >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://forum.world.st/Pharo5-All-systems-on-go-tp4820956p4821002.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>> Nabble.com. >>> >>> >>

April 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Zinc, ZnPercentEncoder] problem encoding accents

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Leo, Are you sure you understand what percent encoding is ? Check the class comment of ZnPercentEncoding, it has links to a Wikipedia article. Did you see ZnPercentEncoderTests ? Anyway, I would think this is what you want to do: ZnPercentEncoder new encode: 'NeuquÃ©n, NeuquÃ©n Province, Argentina'. => 'Neuqu%C3%A9n%2C%20Neuqu%C3%A9n%20Province%2C%20Argentina' ZnPercentEncoder new decode: 'Neuqu%C3%A9n%2C%20Neuqu%C3%A9n%20Province%2C%20Argentina'. => 'NeuquÃ©n, NeuquÃ©n Province, Argentina' Seems to work fine, no ? What problem do you have with ZnUrl ? Sven BTW: this is a pharo-users question. > On 21 Apr 2015, at 22:51, Leo Paniceres <lpaniceres(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi > Iâm experiencing a problem when I try to encode an URL with latin characters with accents or circumflex. > The example is: > > > â âZnPercentEncoder new decode: 'NeuquÃ©n, NeuquÃ©n Province, Argentina' > > > The IETF standard provides these definitions: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/std63 > > > the implementation ZnPercentEncoder, decode: stringStream to: byteStream could be changed to accept characters below 256. (char charCode < 256 instad of char charCode < 128)? > > > decode: stringStream to: byteStream > > | char | > > self decodePlusAsSpace. > > [ stringStream atEnd ] > > whileFalse: [ > > ((char := stringStream next) == $+ and: [ decodePlusAsSpace ]) > > ifTrue: [ byteStream nextPut: 32 ] > > ifFalse: [ > > char == $% > > ifTrue: [ byteStream nextPut: (self readHexFrom: stringStream) ] > > ifFalse: [ > > char charCode < 128 > > ifTrue: [ byteStream nextPut: char charCode ] > > ifFalse: [ self errorAsciiCharacterExpected ] ] ] ] > > >

April 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo5] All systems on go!

by Nicolai Hess

2015-04-21 22:47 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > I cant see pharo classes in Nautiluse apart from a few, unless i open them > with GTSpotter , then they get added to Nautilus. Is this normal ? Is it > because I miss the sources file ? and if yes where I find it ? > No, there is an active package pane filter. I thnk this happend by accident, the field should be empty. > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > wrote: > >> Thanks, Marcus!! :) >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Pharo5-All-systems-on-go-tp4820956p4821002.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> >> >

April 21, 2015

[Zinc, ZnPercentEncoder] problem encoding accents

by Leo Paniceres

Hi Iâm experiencing a problem when I try to encode an URL with latin characters with accents or circumflex. The example is: â âZnPercentEncoder new decode: 'NeuquÃ©n, NeuquÃ©n Province, Argentina' The IETF standard provides these definitions: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt https://tools.ietf.org/html/std63 the implementation ZnPercentEncoder, decode: stringStream to: byteStream could be changed to accept characters below 256. (char charCode < 256 instad of char charCode < 128)? decode: stringStream to: byteStream | char | self decodePlusAsSpace. [ stringStream atEnd ] whileFalse: [ ((char := stringStream next) == $+ and: [ decodePlusAsSpace ]) ifTrue: [ byteStream nextPut: 32 ] ifFalse: [ char == $% ifTrue: [ byteStream nextPut: (self readHexFrom: stringStream) ] ifFalse: [ char charCode < 128 ifTrue: [ byteStream nextPut: char charCode ] ifFalse: [ self errorAsciiCharacterExpected ] ] ] ]

April 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher all white !!!

by kilon alios

Well I am not complaining , I definitely don't like hard coded colors :) If none will I will take a look , its being sometime since I contributed to PL. On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > > 2015-04-21 22:33 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > >> I just downloaded latest pharolauncher from here >> >> >> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/Launcher/job/Launcher-Mac/lastSuccessfulBuil… >> >> The new PL is all white, is this normal ? >> > > Some hard coded values were removed from the Pharo3 theme > and the theme default values are just "white" :) > > http://forum.world.st/PharoLauncher-and-Pharo-5-0-tp4820240p4820720.html > > >> I cant see the panels to resize them all see is white and the text. >> > >

April 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoLauncher all white !!!

by Nicolai Hess

2015-04-21 22:33 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > I just downloaded latest pharolauncher from here > > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/Launcher/job/Launcher-Mac/lastSuccessfulBuil… > > The new PL is all white, is this normal ? > Some hard coded values were removed from the Pharo3 theme and the theme default values are just "white" :) http://forum.world.st/PharoLauncher-and-Pharo-5-0-tp4820240p4820720.html > I cant see the panels to resize them all see is white and the text. >

April 21, 2015