April 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Release with Dark Theme

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 24.04.2015 um 08:38 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > > I disagreeâ¦ DarkTheme is just for certain tastes, while regular one, while probably dated, is more âstandardâ. > Also, DarkTheme is not ready. yeah, yeahâ¦ it works and works fine most of the timeâ¦ but not *all* the time (take for example find string dialogâ¦ I never found the time to fix it, and nobody complained soâ¦ :P). Finally. we need to adopt SVG icons (in my TODO list since a couple of months, I will deliver soon, I hope), otherwise they do not look good (this is a problem eclipse itself had itâ¦ we are just inheriting it :) ) > > But a good question would be: How can we push forward our UI, besides using a darker or clearer theme? > I would like to hear some opinions here :) > I like the way pharo4 took towards finding and navigating. With spotter it is easy to find an entry point to the image graph. With the gt inspector you can navigate the graph then. Bringing those tools closer together could make it even better. Now we have find and navigate we could also have some help in creating things which is prerequisite to finding and navigating. My dream would be that e.g. when you find a class spotter has an action with shortcut to create an instance of that class. The inspector has a tab with an editor that lets you enter values (or better ways to do it). Those could be created by an object meta description. This could be something like magritte. But I hope we manage to build a better magritte based on slots. The short term real life goals are: - unify keyboard shortcuts. - improve event handling so that the use of a magic mouse does not produce dozens of events that make the UI go crazy Norbert > > >> On 24 Apr 2015, at 08:33, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> comments about color is to be taken with care. >> >> >> Le 24/4/15 02:48, Sean P. DeNigris a Ã©crit : >>> Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to love it, >>> and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Cheers, >>> Sean >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >> >> > >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Small ScreenTheme [was: Release with Dark Theme]

by Stephan Eggermont

On 24/04/15 10:19, Nicolas Anquetil wrote: > In a related domain, I am launching a petition for a SmallScreenTheme and a large screen one too. 24 or 40" UHD has lots of empty space, and default browser sizes are too small The first thing to do is to make sure we don't create more legacy code with hardcoded sizes for fonts, borders, margins, padding. Stephan

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Release with Dark Theme

by Stephan Eggermont

On 24/04/15 01:48, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to love it, > and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. The advantages of a dark theme: - works well for photo/video apps where you don't want extra (colored) light; - works well in a dark environment; - provides little blue light, so doesn't influence sleep; - works for certain eye problems; don't apply to me much. I find reducing eye stress for me is mostly a question of adding more ambient light (also works well for my mood). In a light environment a light theme works much better. Stephan

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Release with Dark Theme

by Thierry Goubier

Le 24/04/2015 10:11, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com > <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I disagreeâ¦ DarkTheme is just for certain tastes, while regular one, > while probably dated, is more âstandardâ. > Also, DarkTheme is not ready. yeah, yeahâ¦ it works and works fine > most of the timeâ¦ but not *all* the time (take for example find > string dialogâ¦ I never found the time to fix it, and nobody > complained soâ¦ :P). Finally. we need to adopt SVG icons (in my TODO > list since a couple of months, I will deliver soon, I hope), > otherwise they do not look good (this is a problem eclipse itself > had itâ¦ we are just inheriting it :) ) > > But a good question would be: How can we push forward our UI, > besides using a darker or clearer theme? > I would like to hear some opinions here :) > > > > I'd like to have some solution for that "windows popping up everywhere" > thing. AltBrowser has some good ideas. > > In fact I'd like to have AltBrowser and Nautilus together (as in > additional entries in the "Browse", "Browse Scoped", ..."Alt Browse", > "Alt Browse Scoped") > > Also, having a way to see a class with all the methods in a long pane. > Yeah, Smalltalk is all about short methods but it is hard to explain > things to people when looking at a ravioli at a time. Like the Newspeak browser? > Navigating hierarchies should be made easier (switching on the > "hier/flat" button gets tiring). This one is difficult to solve. > I need to see how spotter will make this easier anyway. Still not using > it, need to bring all my code to 4.0 before. I'm a bit: Spotter is an external tool to the browser. If my searches are well answered in the browser, I'll prefer to avoid switching back and forth between two GUIs. It would be nice to have a closer integration between Browser and Spotter. When looking at methods, Spotter and AltBrowser show a very similar GUI: context tree on the left (i.e. where is the element in the overall scheme), element/work pane on the right. Like all the tree-based browsers have done in the past, really (the Star browser, the Whisker browser). Which makes Spotter a kind of reimplementation of a tree browser with object-driven representations on the right... was that a project by Alain Plantec in the Squeak days? Thierry > Phil > >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Release with Dark Theme

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 24.04.2015 um 09:45 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > That's a bit harsh, the fonts are the same ;-) No, they weren't. I had my font setup and after applying the dark theme the fonts were changed. > And it is of course possible that you don't like it, it is a matter of taste. > The contrast thing is also taste, but for some people it solve certain vision problems. > Sure, that's why I said "I don't like it". I used dark themes in the last decades. But the setup I had it was hard to orientate my eyes. Area borders were not contrasting to the rest. Having multiple windows overlap makes it really hard to distinguish. So, if this is the cure for anybody then it's good :) Norbert >> On 24 Apr 2015, at 09:27, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> >> That's funny because I tried it two days ago the first time and I didn't like it. I had troubles to get anything but bitmap fonts. After setting all things up I was a bit disappointed that contrast wise it doesn't work for me. Can someone send a screenshot with one setup that he/she considers good? >> >> thanks, >> >> Norbert >> >>> Am 24.04.2015 um 08:38 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> I disagreeâ¦ DarkTheme is just for certain tastes, while regular one, while probably dated, is more âstandardâ. >>> Also, DarkTheme is not ready. yeah, yeahâ¦ it works and works fine most of the timeâ¦ but not *all* the time (take for example find string dialogâ¦ I never found the time to fix it, and nobody complained soâ¦ :P). Finally. we need to adopt SVG icons (in my TODO list since a couple of months, I will deliver soon, I hope), otherwise they do not look good (this is a problem eclipse itself had itâ¦ we are just inheriting it :) ) >>> >>> But a good question would be: How can we push forward our UI, besides using a darker or clearer theme? >>> I would like to hear some opinions here :) >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> >>>> On 24 Apr 2015, at 08:33, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>> comments about color is to be taken with care. >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 24/4/15 02:48, Sean P. DeNigris a Ã©crit : >>>>> Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to love it, >>>>> and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Sean >>>>> -- >>>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html >>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Small ScreenTheme [was: Release with Dark Theme]

by Thierry Goubier

Le 24/04/2015 10:19, Nicolas Anquetil a Ã©crit : > > In a related domain, I am launching a petition for a SmallScreenTheme > > People are working on 13" laptops, soon we will program pharo on tablets > > The default themes are a total waste of screen space with huge borders > everywhere, large fonts, white spaces (or grey spaces) in the browser, ... I usually work on a 720p screen: acer C720p (11"), hp DM1z (11"), dell E6230 (12", just slightly larger screen). First thing I do on 4.0: turn off Playground, GTInspector (take too much space), and use AltBrowser instead of Nautilus :) > I tried to work on one in the past, but did not go very far (only > smaller fonts=8 and tighter scrollbars). > Buttons need to be shrinked drastically, morphs in morphs in morphs all > have borders 4 pixels wide, ... You can try that, but just removing useless buttons and panes from GUI elements goes very far, and make the UI more responsive; small screens equal to low CPU power: for example, using the GT stuff or Nautilus on the HP DM1z does not make for a nice experience :( Thierry

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Small ScreenTheme [was: Release with Dark Theme]

by phil＠highoctane.be

I am working on a 13inch 1080p laptop, that's fine, even with the larger font (which I am using). Maybe you want to have things working nicer on 1366x720p screens? Or 1280x800 for old MBPs? That's the cheap laptop rez (I've been cursed with having to work with one for a client). Phil On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Nicolas Anquetil < nicolas.anquetil(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > In a related domain, I am launching a petition for a SmallScreenTheme > > People are working on 13" laptops, soon we will program pharo on tablets > > The default themes are a total waste of screen space with huge borders > everywhere, large fonts, white spaces (or grey spaces) in the browser, ... > > I tried to work on one in the past, but did not go very far (only smaller > fonts=8 and tighter scrollbars). > Buttons need to be shrinked drastically, morphs in morphs in morphs all > have borders 4 pixels wide, ... > > nicolas > > On 24/04/2015 01:48, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > >> Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to love >> it, >> and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> >> > >

April 24, 2015

Small ScreenTheme [was: Release with Dark Theme]

by Nicolas Anquetil

In a related domain, I am launching a petition for a SmallScreenTheme People are working on 13" laptops, soon we will program pharo on tablets The default themes are a total waste of screen space with huge borders everywhere, large fonts, white spaces (or grey spaces) in the browser, ... I tried to work on one in the past, but did not go very far (only smaller fonts=8 and tighter scrollbars). Buttons need to be shrinked drastically, morphs in morphs in morphs all have borders 4 pixels wide, ... nicolas On 24/04/2015 01:48, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to love it, > and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Updated WebDoc

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 24 Apr 2015, at 08:56, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Ok I saw with the version 30 it is much better :) > Because I was surprised that someone could do anything with the 40. > Now in that case we should not just put in it in the obscure file server > but promoted to the website. > > > it is: http://pharo.org/documentation > > Search through pharodocs <http://files.pharo.org/doc/4.0> > > The reference website for documentation about Pharo. > Where is the 3.0 version? This is a 4.0 with the popping up hierarchy that makes it unusable as the popup obscures the description of the class. Phil > > Esteban > > > > Stef > > > Le 24/4/15 09:41, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > > no, docs for pharo 4.0 are broken. > I will regenerate it next week (it takes hours). > > and about if it is useful: no experienced smalltalker will ever use it. > But newbies and google indexer will. > > So is good to have it and not much effort, I think. > > Esteban > > On 24 Apr 2015, at 08:37, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Is it used? Is it useful? > I tried to browse a method during 5 min and the result was really strange > May be my browser is broken (safari) > > <jcdfgjeg..png> > Le 23/4/15 17:15, Guillermo Polito a Ã©crit :<cbeahccf..png> > > Quick answer, no. > > More elaborate one: > > The exports of the full pharo release (versions 3.0 and 4.0) exist and > were created by Esteban manually before each release. These, are hosted > here > > http://file-pharo.inria.fr/doc/4.0 > http://file-pharo.inria.fr/doc/3.0 > > We could run it automatically every day with latest pharo to avoid the > manual steps. I'll add that into my todo and check it later ^^. > > > El jue., 23 de abr. de 2015 a la(s) 4:09 p. m., Sven Van Caekenberghe < > sven(a)stfx.eu> escribiÃ³: > >> Great! Thank you. >> >> And the full image export, is that somewhere (done automatically) ? >> >> > On 23 Apr 2015, at 15:56, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi guys, >> > >> > I started yesterday to update WebDoc to work on latest Pharo. I share >> with you my progress since yesterday: >> > >> > - Now it loads in latest pharo4 :) >> > - fixed javascript errors and render issues >> > - a little of love to the css styles >> > - removed unused/not working features >> > - made it work well when exporting not the full image >> > - ci job is again green [1] >> > >> > you can see the result of applying webdoc to webdoc as the result of >> the ci job here [2]. If you use it further, you'll see there are still of >> course some problems, but I feel it is better than before :). >> > >> > If you want to check it out, instructions in [3]. >> > Download: >> > >> > Gofer it >> > smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'WebDoc'; >> > package:'ConfigurationOfWebDoc'; >> > load. >> > >> > (#ConfigurationOfWebDoc asClass project version: #development) load. >> > >> > Export: >> > (WebDocExporter packages: {RPackageOrganizer default packageNamed: >> 'YourProject'}) >> > title: 'YourProject'; >> > exportTo: './doc' asFileReference. >> > >> > >> > Guille >> > >> > [1] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/WebDoc/ >> > [2] >> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/WebDoc/PHARO=40,VERSION=developm… >> > [3]http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/WebDoc >> >> >> > > > >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Updated WebDoc

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:56 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Ok I saw with the version 30 it is much better :) > Because I was surprised that someone could do anything with the 40. > Now in that case we should not just put in it in the obscure file server > but promoted to the website. > > > Stef > > > Le 24/4/15 09:41, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > > no, docs for pharo 4.0 are broken. > I will regenerate it next week (it takes hours). > > and about if it is useful: no experienced smalltalker will ever use it. > But newbies and google indexer will. > > We'd be having package level comments, that would be another story. Thus we'd be closer to JavaDoc (e.g. https://jaxb.java.net/nonav/2.2.1/docs/api/index.html?overview-summary.html) It is also useful to look into things without having to load them in. Phil > > So is good to have it and not much effort, I think. > > Esteban > > On 24 Apr 2015, at 08:37, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > Is it used? Is it useful? > I tried to browse a method during 5 min and the result was really strange > May be my browser is broken (safari) > > <jcdfgjeg..png> > Le 23/4/15 17:15, Guillermo Polito a Ã©crit :<cbeahccf..png> > > Quick answer, no. > > More elaborate one: > > The exports of the full pharo release (versions 3.0 and 4.0) exist and > were created by Esteban manually before each release. These, are hosted > here > > http://file-pharo.inria.fr/doc/4.0 > http://file-pharo.inria.fr/doc/3.0 > > We could run it automatically every day with latest pharo to avoid the > manual steps. I'll add that into my todo and check it later ^^. > > > El jue., 23 de abr. de 2015 a la(s) 4:09 p. m., Sven Van Caekenberghe < > sven(a)stfx.eu> escribiÃ³: > >> Great! Thank you. >> >> And the full image export, is that somewhere (done automatically) ? >> >> > On 23 Apr 2015, at 15:56, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi guys, >> > >> > I started yesterday to update WebDoc to work on latest Pharo. I share >> with you my progress since yesterday: >> > >> > - Now it loads in latest pharo4 :) >> > - fixed javascript errors and render issues >> > - a little of love to the css styles >> > - removed unused/not working features >> > - made it work well when exporting not the full image >> > - ci job is again green [1] >> > >> > you can see the result of applying webdoc to webdoc as the result of >> the ci job here [2]. If you use it further, you'll see there are still of >> course some problems, but I feel it is better than before :). >> > >> > If you want to check it out, instructions in [3]. >> > Download: >> > >> > Gofer it >> > smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'WebDoc'; >> > package:'ConfigurationOfWebDoc'; >> > load. >> > >> > (#ConfigurationOfWebDoc asClass project version: #development) load. >> > >> > Export: >> > (WebDocExporter packages: {RPackageOrganizer default packageNamed: >> 'YourProject'}) >> > title: 'YourProject'; >> > exportTo: './doc' asFileReference. >> > >> > >> > Guille >> > >> > [1] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/WebDoc/ >> > [2] >> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/WebDoc/PHARO=40,VERSION=developm… >> > [3]http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/WebDoc >> >> >> > >

April 24, 2015