April 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Brand new modern Spotter design!

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Maybe the color is an April 1st joke ? > On 03 Apr 2015, at 10:30, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Universal :)))) > > Doru > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > On 01/04/15 11:53, Tudor Girba wrote: > Nah, you have to experience it first hand yourself. It's too cool to > experience it via a dead picture. > > On wednesday we used it in the devnology workshop. > It just works, no participants had any remarks :) > > Stephan > > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow"

April 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

The point is, every piece of code needs to be written and maintained which takes time and energy from other activities. However I imagine that taking the current Pharo theme and just moving the buttons around wouldn't be a complex task (or perhaps even making it customizable option). Personally since my OS doesn't use these buttons at all I don't really care at which side they are. Peter On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 2:58 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Not me I used to be a windows only user for over a decade and I was always > have been wondering why the close /max/min are on the right side when menus > start from the left. So when I finally decided to convert to Macos it was a > welcomed change and still is. > > Now you can ask me after 8 years being a MacOS users how I feel about the > way mac windows maximise and you wont hear nice things even now that they > offer full screen options. > > I am not a creature of habit apparently, If I don't like something the > first minutes chances are that I wont like it 2 decades either. Sometimes I > change my mind, but it is rare. Really, really rare. > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < > pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> >> To: Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>, Pharo Development List < >> pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> >> Cc: >> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:37:41 +0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions >> It's not so much about the Windows look (whether it's Win98, Win 2K, Win >> XP, Win Me, Win 8, Win Whatever). Every Windows user *expects* to have the >> Close, Maximize & Minimize buttons at the upper right of the Window. >> >> It might look like a silly detail but try swapping the buttons of a Mac >> user to the right and wait a few seconds before he complains! ;) >> >> ----------------- >> Benoit St-Jean >> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean >> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux >> Pinterest: benoitstjean >> IRC: lamneth >> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com >> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >> *To:* Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com>; Pharo Development List < >> pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, April 3, 2015 8:28 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions >> >> >> On 03 Apr 2015, at 14:11, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < >> pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> >> *Date: *3 Apr 2015 14:08:03 CEST >> *From: *Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> >> *Reply-To: *Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> >> *To: *Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> >> *Subject: **Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions* >> >> >> 3 quick things : >> >> 1) How can I get the Windows theme (W2K) that was available in Pharo 3 >> (it's no longer there in Pharo 4.0 Beta). Having the close, maximize & >> minimize buttons to the left of every window is VERY annoying for Windows >> users! >> >> Windows 2k is 16 years old. We can not maintain a museum of old windows >> looksâ¦ it just makes no sense (at all. At allâ¦ I donât even think how >> someone can think that we should!). >> Keep in mind that nobody uses it (but you, I guess), so it will for sure >> be broken in subtle waysâ¦ >> >> We need to use it where it makes sense. A windows 2000 look is not one of >> these things. >> >> >> >> 2) Am I the only one annoyed by the fact that the Collection class still >> holds on to 2 class variables (one of them being an instance of Random, the >> other a mutex) for the sole purpose of accommodating the #atRandom & >> #atRandom: methods ? Even worse, the Integer class' implementation of >> #atRandom references the Collection class to use that random instance! In >> other words, Integer>>#atRandom --> Collection>>#randomForPicking --> >> Random ! I've always been a fan of the "mind your own business" approach. >> Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the Random class provide a >> default instance (a singleton) whenever other classes need such an object >> instead of crippling the code with class variables and singleton instance >> all over the place? >> >> >> The system is very large. I think it is fundamentally wrong to assume >> that something like this (Design level things) will be magically fixed if >> there was no discussion, no issue tracker entry, no nothing. >> >> Why do you think that this will âfix itself magicallyâ? I would really >> like to know your thought process behind thisâ¦ is there something that >> makes you think that a release process could catch >> this? How? >> >> Marcus >> >> >> >> >

April 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions

by kilon alios

Not me I used to be a windows only user for over a decade and I was always have been wondering why the close /max/min are on the right side when menus start from the left. So when I finally decided to convert to Macos it was a welcomed change and still is. Now you can ask me after 8 years being a MacOS users how I feel about the way mac windows maximise and you wont hear nice things even now that they offer full screen options. I am not a creature of habit apparently, If I don't like something the first minutes chances are that I wont like it 2 decades either. Sometimes I change my mind, but it is rare. Really, really rare. On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>, Pharo Development List < > pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Cc: > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:37:41 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions > It's not so much about the Windows look (whether it's Win98, Win 2K, Win > XP, Win Me, Win 8, Win Whatever). Every Windows user *expects* to have the > Close, Maximize & Minimize buttons at the upper right of the Window. > > It might look like a silly detail but try swapping the buttons of a Mac > user to the right and wait a few seconds before he complains! ;) > > ----------------- > Benoit St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > *To:* Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com>; Pharo Development List < > pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > *Sent:* Friday, April 3, 2015 8:28 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions > > > On 03 Apr 2015, at 14:11, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < > pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > *Date: *3 Apr 2015 14:08:03 CEST > *From: *Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > *Reply-To: *Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > *To: *Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: **Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions* > > > 3 quick things : > > 1) How can I get the Windows theme (W2K) that was available in Pharo 3 > (it's no longer there in Pharo 4.0 Beta). Having the close, maximize & > minimize buttons to the left of every window is VERY annoying for Windows > users! > > Windows 2k is 16 years old. We can not maintain a museum of old windows > looksâ¦ it just makes no sense (at all. At allâ¦ I donât even think how > someone can think that we should!). > Keep in mind that nobody uses it (but you, I guess), so it will for sure > be broken in subtle waysâ¦ > > We need to use it where it makes sense. A windows 2000 look is not one of > these things. > > > > 2) Am I the only one annoyed by the fact that the Collection class still > holds on to 2 class variables (one of them being an instance of Random, the > other a mutex) for the sole purpose of accommodating the #atRandom & > #atRandom: methods ? Even worse, the Integer class' implementation of > #atRandom references the Collection class to use that random instance! In > other words, Integer>>#atRandom --> Collection>>#randomForPicking --> > Random ! I've always been a fan of the "mind your own business" approach. > Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the Random class provide a > default instance (a singleton) whenever other classes need such an object > instead of crippling the code with class variables and singleton instance > all over the place? > > > The system is very large. I think it is fundamentally wrong to assume that > something like this (Design level things) will be magically fixed if there > was no discussion, no issue tracker entry, no nothing. > > Why do you think that this will âfix itself magicallyâ? I would really > like to know your thought process behind thisâ¦ is there something that > makes you think that a release process could catch > this? How? > > Marcus > > > >

April 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions

by Aliaksei Syrel

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > Every Windows user *expects* to have the Close, Maximize & Minimize > buttons at the upper right of the Window. Don't speak for every Windows user ;) A lot of them have buttons at the upper left corner in the countries with right-to-left script (28 languages) :) Cheers, Alex â

April 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Pharo sprint on Friday, 3rd April

by Marcus Denker

> On 03 Apr 2015, at 14:36, Jigyasa Grover <grover.jigyasa1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Ohk. > No issues :) > Looking forward to other Pharo Sprints focusing on beginners :D > Yesâ¦ maybe other people have ideas? Marcus

April 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions

by Benoit St-Jean

It's not so much about the Windows look (whether it's Win98, Win 2K, Win XP, Win Me, Win 8, Win Whatever).Â Every Windows user *expects* to have the Close, Maximize & Minimize buttons at the upper right of the Window. It might look like a silly detail but try swapping the buttons of a Mac user to the right and wait a few seconds before he complains!Â ;) Â ----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".Â (A. Einstein) From: Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com>; Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions On 03 Apr 2015, at 14:11, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: Date: 3 Apr 2015 14:08:03 CEST From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions 3 quick things : 1) How can I get the Windows theme (W2K) that was available in Pharo 3 (it's no longer there in Pharo 4.0 Beta).Â Having the close, maximize & minimize buttons to the left of every window is VERY annoying for Windows users! Windows 2k is 16 years old. We can not maintain a museum of old windows looksâ¦ it just makes no sense (at all. At allâ¦ I donât even think how someone can think that we should!).Keep in mind that nobody uses it (but you, I guess), so it will for sure be broken in subtle waysâ¦Â We need to use it where it makes sense. A windows 2000 look is not one of these things. 2) Am I the only one annoyed by the fact that the Collection class still holds on to 2 class variables (one of them being an instance of Random, the other a mutex) for the sole purpose of accommodating the #atRandom & #atRandom: methods ?Â Even worse, the Integer class' implementation of #atRandom references the Collection class to use that random instance!Â In other words, Integer>>#atRandom --> Collection>>#randomForPicking --> Random !Â I've always been a fan of the "mind your own business" approach.Â Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the Random class provide a default instance (a singleton) whenever other classes need such an object instead of crippling the code with class variables and singleton instance all over the place? The system is very large. I think it is fundamentally wrong to assume that something like this (Design level things) will be magically fixed if there was no discussion, no issue tracker entry, no nothing. Why do you think that this will âfix itself magicallyâ? I would really like to know your thought process behind thisâ¦ is there something that makes you think that a release process could catchthis? How? Marcus

April 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Pharo sprint on Friday, 3rd April

by Jigyasa Grover

Hey Sean Sure ! Am up for it Could you suggest any specific task ? Thanks Jigyasa Grover On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Jigyasa Grover <grover.jigyasa1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ohk. > No issues :) > Looking forward to other Pharo Sprints focusing on beginners :D > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > >> >> On 03 Apr 2015, at 13:07, Jigyasa Grover <grover.jigyasa1(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hey Marcus >> Anything up there for the beginners ? >> >> >> Not really yetâ¦ I am focusing myself on Pharo4â¦ where we are not in a >> state that simple >> things are done (which often are cleanups). >> >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 28 Mar 2015, at 09:20, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>> >>> This means having a look at the issue tracker to find some issue that are >>> interesting to work on could be an idea. >>> >>> Maybe a trello board could be used to sync for the remote sprinters. >>> >>> >>> https://trello.com/b/OQ2k210W >>> >>> It is public for viewing, for editing I think we need to add people. >>> >>> >>> I started to add cases that people can look at. >>> >>> Marcus >>> >> >> >> >

April 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Pharo sprint on Friday, 3rd April

by Jigyasa Grover

Ohk. No issues :) Looking forward to other Pharo Sprints focusing on beginners :D On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Apr 2015, at 13:07, Jigyasa Grover <grover.jigyasa1(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hey Marcus > Anything up there for the beginners ? > > > Not really yetâ¦ I am focusing myself on Pharo4â¦ where we are not in a > state that simple > things are done (which often are cleanups). > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > >> >> On 28 Mar 2015, at 09:20, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> >> This means having a look at the issue tracker to find some issue that are >> interesting to work on could be an idea. >> >> Maybe a trello board could be used to sync for the remote sprinters. >> >> >> https://trello.com/b/OQ2k210W >> >> It is public for viewing, for editing I think we need to add people. >> >> >> I started to add cases that people can look at. >> >> Marcus >> > > >

April 3, 2015

Resizing of the print block (Pharo 4.0)

by Gaurav Singh

Is there a way to resize the print block in the playground? Sometimes when the string is quite a bit long the print block never goes beyond a specific dimension which is quite less and therefore we have to scroll down more rows to check the output and the only way to see the better output is the inspector whereas in Pharo 3.0 we saw that the output depended on the size of the workspace.

April 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Pharo sprint on Friday, 3rd April

by Marcus Denker

> On 03 Apr 2015, at 13:07, Jigyasa Grover <grover.jigyasa1(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hey Marcus > Anything up there for the beginners ? > Not really yetâ¦ I am focusing myself on Pharo4â¦ where we are not in a state that simple things are done (which often are cleanups). > On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: > >> On 28 Mar 2015, at 09:20, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: >> >>> >>> This means having a look at the issue tracker to find some issue that are >>> interesting to work on could be an idea. >>> >>> Maybe a trello board could be used to sync for the remote sprinters. >>> >> >> https://trello.com/b/OQ2k210W <https://trello.com/b/OQ2k210W> >> >> It is public for viewing, for editing I think we need to add people. >> > > I started to add cases that people can look at. > > Marcus >

April 3, 2015