March 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo4] RBEnvironment-based search is broken

by stepharo

Hi what were the changes in RBEnvironment? > in short, implementorsOf:/referencesTo:/ is broken (does not > search over the class side of things). > > Moreover, depending on the kind of RBEnvironment one is looking at: > > allClasses > returns only the classes > or > returns classes and metaclasses > > > I reported a couple of issues at fogbugz related to this (actually > about smalllint validations rules, but they > depend on this change on RBEnvironments) Do you have the issue number? > And I raised some topics about this on the mailing list. > > I was not involved in the latest changes on RBEnvironment and don't > have any project that > depends on RBEnvironment. > > So I can *do* the fixes I proposed, but I will not make the decisions. > Just waiting for feedback. > > Of course, implementorsOf: is broken because allClasses does not > returns the metaclasses. > > I like it when people "normalize" things :( > > > He asked for feedback on this. And as far as I know no one complained. > Not enough users of RB environment. I really think that we should write more tests because this is part that can be tested and we can spot regression. Ideally I would like to get - unification between SystemDictionary as a leave in a hierarchy whose root would be RBEnviroment - get systemNavigation unified with RBEnviroment Now what I would like the most is time :) Stef > > nicolai > > > > Thierry > >

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT is So Cool!!

by stepharo

Damien's presentation should be 45 min and include probably seaside. Stef Le 9/3/15 17:14, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > Not sure, but let's try to work on that. How long do you plan for > demoing GT? > > Doru > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com > <mailto:damien.cassou@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I am giving a presentation in front of Inria engineers at the end > of the month. Do you think your package could be ready at this time? > > On Mar 8, 2015 7:27 AM, "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com > <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: > > Hi Stef, > > Indeed, I would like to invest in a little package that people > can use to demo GT and Pharo in general. I will get back to > you on this topic :) > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 1:08 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > Doru > > do you have a scenario that I can replay to show GT, right > now I failed to do a sexy presentation and show the point > and this is something I want to be able to do. > > Stef > > Le 7/3/15 10:59, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >> Hi Sean, >> >> Thanks for the kind words. >> >> I am happy these tools raise excitement. The funny thing >> is that it is hard to convey the interestingness of GT in >> static pictures. Most often excitement comes from looks. >> Yet, take yours for example: there is absolutely nothing >> exciting about a couple of lists. But, when you start to >> use contextual details during inspection and extend the >> tools exactly at the point when the need occurs, the game >> changes radically. >> >> Everyone spends these long hours digging through systems. >> Yet, most people don't like this at all (if you do not >> believe me, when was the last time you heard someone >> bragging about the last debugging session?). I think the >> reason is that until now, the experience was terrible. >> Digging through systems has to become a beautiful >> experience. We owe this to our future self and to the >> next generations. >> >> The current GT is a step (ok, maybe two :)) forward, but >> there is lots to do in this direction. And I think this >> is one area in which Pharo can thrive and be radically >> different. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Sean P. DeNigris >> <sean(a)clipperadams.com <mailto:sean@clipperadams.com>> wrote: >> >> Sean P. DeNigris wrote >> > the right shows the lines of OCRed text >> >> And (of course!), the line objects have their own >> custom view so you can >> dive in and break them down to the words they contain >> (as determined >> separately by Tesseract). >> >> <http://forum.world.st/file/n4810055/Screenshot_2015-03-06_11.png> >> >> This feels revolutionary. All the countless hours >> I've wasted digging >> through C/C++ watch lists, Smalltalk inspectors, Ruby >> stdouts, etc are >> flashing before my eyes... what will I do with all >> the time I save?! ;) >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/GT-is-So-Cool-tp4810054p4810055.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list >> archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by stepharo

Why everything is not simple. There is nice setting browser. Why do we need to have other mechanisms. Why just spotter and not all the other tools. Can we do something simple and consistent? Stef

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Juraj Kubelka

> 9. 3. 2015 v 16:55, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > No, for me, the global things goes too far. OK. This is what I suppose. > > Allowing it in the current image is one thing, making that true for every image is a whole other thing. And there should not be the side effect of exporting all other settings. Well, if you only click on the check box âSend anonymous usage dataâ, it is kept in the image. If you press âMake default for allâ¦â it is stored globally and loaded to every new image (= does not have settings in the image) someone starts. > > But I am not familiar with how settings are persisted and/or used in more than one image. For me, an image stands on its own, is its own world. Once you press âExport allâ it is stored on your disk and loaded on every image start. See âAllow the preferences to be loaded at startupâ. So, in order to not having side effects, we do not include the preference âSend anonymous usage data" in Settings Browser. Do you agree or do you still prefer having it in Settings Browser? Cheers, Juraj > >> On 09 Mar 2015, at 20:42, Juraj Kubelka <juraj.kubelka(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> If I understand well, saved preferences in Settings Browser are loaded to an image as startup by default. >> Do you agree that pressing âMake default for all imagesâ¦â button in Spotter will trigger the same action âExport Settingsâ in Settings Browser? It means all system settings will be shared between images. >> >> Cheers, >> Juraj >> >>> 9. 3. 2015 v 14:26, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >>> >>> I don't mind the small 'Cog' icon, but maybe it should open the real 'Settings Browser', open on the right place, selecting the right setting, maybe on top of what is there. >>> >>>> On 09 Mar 2015, at 18:21, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Thanks for integrating :) >>>> >>>> If settings are just in the Settings Browser very few people will go there and enable them. >>>> (Even if I use Pharo a lot I'm still not aware of most settings that I can set in the Settings Browser) >>>> Also always showing pop-ups to tell you that you can share enable sending of usage data is kind of annoying. >>>> Adding a settings button in the toolbar of spotter seemed like a good compromised. >>>> >>>> Agree/disagree? :) >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Andrei >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 09 Mar 2015, at 17:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We want to add them to the settings window as well. >>>> >>>> is the âas wellâ part what does not convinces me: it goes *just* in the settings window, I think :P >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Soâ¦ I integrated latest GTools. >>>>> I did it, but I disagree with the relevance the settings of GSpotter have nowâ¦ I understand you want to collect usage, etcâ¦ but settings should be in settings panel, not âalways on sightâ. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, >>>>> Esteban >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

No, for me, the global things goes too far. Allowing it in the current image is one thing, making that true for every image is a whole other thing. And there should not be the side effect of exporting all other settings. But I am not familiar with how settings are persisted and/or used in more than one image. For me, an image stands on its own, is its own world. > On 09 Mar 2015, at 20:42, Juraj Kubelka <juraj.kubelka(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > If I understand well, saved preferences in Settings Browser are loaded to an image as startup by default. > Do you agree that pressing âMake default for all imagesâ¦â button in Spotter will trigger the same action âExport Settingsâ in Settings Browser? It means all system settings will be shared between images. > > Cheers, > Juraj > >> 9. 3. 2015 v 14:26, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> >> I don't mind the small 'Cog' icon, but maybe it should open the real 'Settings Browser', open on the right place, selecting the right setting, maybe on top of what is there. >> >>> On 09 Mar 2015, at 18:21, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thanks for integrating :) >>> >>> If settings are just in the Settings Browser very few people will go there and enable them. >>> (Even if I use Pharo a lot I'm still not aware of most settings that I can set in the Settings Browser) >>> Also always showing pop-ups to tell you that you can share enable sending of usage data is kind of annoying. >>> Adding a settings button in the toolbar of spotter seemed like a good compromised. >>> >>> Agree/disagree? :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Andrei >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 09 Mar 2015, at 17:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> We want to add them to the settings window as well. >>> >>> is the âas wellâ part what does not convinces me: it goes *just* in the settings window, I think :P >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Soâ¦ I integrated latest GTools. >>>> I did it, but I disagree with the relevance the settings of GSpotter have nowâ¦ I understand you want to collect usage, etcâ¦ but settings should be in settings panel, not âalways on sightâ. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >> >> > >

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Juraj Kubelka

Hi, If I understand well, saved preferences in Settings Browser are loaded to an image as startup by default. Do you agree that pressing âMake default for all imagesâ¦â button in Spotter will trigger the same action âExport Settingsâ in Settings Browser? It means all system settings will be shared between images. Cheers, Juraj > 9. 3. 2015 v 14:26, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > I don't mind the small 'Cog' icon, but maybe it should open the real 'Settings Browser', open on the right place, selecting the right setting, maybe on top of what is there. > >> On 09 Mar 2015, at 18:21, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Thanks for integrating :) >> >> If settings are just in the Settings Browser very few people will go there and enable them. >> (Even if I use Pharo a lot I'm still not aware of most settings that I can set in the Settings Browser) >> Also always showing pop-ups to tell you that you can share enable sending of usage data is kind of annoying. >> Adding a settings button in the toolbar of spotter seemed like a good compromised. >> >> Agree/disagree? :) >> >> Cheers, >> Andrei >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 09 Mar 2015, at 17:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>> We want to add them to the settings window as well. >> >> is the âas wellâ part what does not convinces me: it goes *just* in the settings window, I think :P >> >> >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Soâ¦ I integrated latest GTools. >>> I did it, but I disagree with the relevance the settings of GSpotter have nowâ¦ I understand you want to collect usage, etcâ¦ but settings should be in settings panel, not âalways on sightâ. >>> >>> cheers, >>> Esteban >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> > >

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] PLEASE DO NOT COMMIT NEW FEATURES

by Stephan Eggermont

On 09/03/15 17:39, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > (every year same fightâ¦) > > Please, please, pleaseâ¦ just bugfixes. > Otherwise we will never release. +1 Here are some non-green builds: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/ Stephan

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Andrei Chis

Opening another window leads to a strange workflow as it will have to close spotter; that can be quite unexpected. What about having a small 'Open in Setting Browser' link/button at the button of the UI? Cheers, Andrei On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I don't mind the small 'Cog' icon, but maybe it should open the real > 'Settings Browser', open on the right place, selecting the right setting, > maybe on top of what is there. > > > On 09 Mar 2015, at 18:21, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Thanks for integrating :) > > > > If settings are just in the Settings Browser very few people will go > there and enable them. > > (Even if I use Pharo a lot I'm still not aware of most settings that I > can set in the Settings Browser) > > Also always showing pop-ups to tell you that you can share enable > sending of usage data is kind of annoying. > > Adding a settings button in the toolbar of spotter seemed like a good > compromised. > > > > Agree/disagree? :) > > > > Cheers, > > Andrei > > > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> On 09 Mar 2015, at 17:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> > >> We want to add them to the settings window as well. > > > > is the âas wellâ part what does not convinces me: it goes *just* in the > settings window, I think :P > > > > > >> > >> Doru > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Soâ¦ I integrated latest GTools. > >> I did it, but I disagree with the relevance the settings of GSpotter > have nowâ¦ I understand you want to collect usage, etcâ¦ but settings should > be in settings panel, not âalways on sightâ. > >> > >> cheers, > >> Esteban > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> www.tudorgirba.com > >> > >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > > >

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

I don't mind the small 'Cog' icon, but maybe it should open the real 'Settings Browser', open on the right place, selecting the right setting, maybe on top of what is there. > On 09 Mar 2015, at 18:21, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks for integrating :) > > If settings are just in the Settings Browser very few people will go there and enable them. > (Even if I use Pharo a lot I'm still not aware of most settings that I can set in the Settings Browser) > Also always showing pop-ups to tell you that you can share enable sending of usage data is kind of annoying. > Adding a settings button in the toolbar of spotter seemed like a good compromised. > > Agree/disagree? :) > > Cheers, > Andrei > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 09 Mar 2015, at 17:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> We want to add them to the settings window as well. > > is the âas wellâ part what does not convinces me: it goes *just* in the settings window, I think :P > > >> >> Doru >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Soâ¦ I integrated latest GTools. >> I did it, but I disagree with the relevance the settings of GSpotter have nowâ¦ I understand you want to collect usage, etcâ¦ but settings should be in settings panel, not âalways on sightâ. >> >> cheers, >> Esteban >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > >

March 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT is So Cool!!

by Alexandre Bergel

I am joining my call to Damienâs. I start my lecture on Pharo this Friday. Would be great to have it soon :-) Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Mar 9, 2015, at 1:14 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Not sure, but let's try to work on that. How long do you plan for demoing GT? > > Doru > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com <mailto:damien.cassou@gmail.com>> wrote: > I am giving a presentation in front of Inria engineers at the end of the month. Do you think your package could be ready at this time? > > On Mar 8, 2015 7:27 AM, "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > Indeed, I would like to invest in a little package that people can use to demo GT and Pharo in general. I will get back to you on this topic :) > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 1:08 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > Doru > > do you have a scenario that I can replay to show GT, right now I failed to do a sexy presentation and show the point > and this is something I want to be able to do. > > Stef > > Le 7/3/15 10:59, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >> Hi Sean, >> >> Thanks for the kind words. >> >> I am happy these tools raise excitement. The funny thing is that it is hard to convey the interestingness of GT in static pictures. Most often excitement comes from looks. Yet, take yours for example: there is absolutely nothing exciting about a couple of lists. But, when you start to use contextual details during inspection and extend the tools exactly at the point when the need occurs, the game changes radically. >> >> Everyone spends these long hours digging through systems. Yet, most people don't like this at all (if you do not believe me, when was the last time you heard someone bragging about the last debugging session?). I think the reason is that until now, the experience was terrible. Digging through systems has to become a beautiful experience. We owe this to our future self and to the next generations. >> >> The current GT is a step (ok, maybe two :)) forward, but there is lots to do in this direction. And I think this is one area in which Pharo can thrive and be radically different. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com <mailto:sean@clipperadams.com>> wrote: >> Sean P. DeNigris wrote >> > the right shows the lines of OCRed text >> >> And (of course!), the line objects have their own custom view so you can >> dive in and break them down to the words they contain (as determined >> separately by Tesseract). >> >> <http://forum.world.st/file/n4810055/Screenshot_2015-03-06_11.png <http://forum.world.st/file/n4810055/Screenshot_2015-03-06_11.png>> >> >> This feels revolutionary. All the countless hours I've wasted digging >> through C/C++ watch lists, Smalltalk inspectors, Ruby stdouts, etc are >> flashing before my eyes... what will I do with all the time I save?! ;) >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GT-is-So-Cool-tp4810054p4810055.html <http://forum.world.st/GT-is-So-Cool-tp4810054p4810055.html> >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

March 9, 2015