March 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 10 Mar 2015, at 14:05, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Until this conversation started I had no idea that you can actually persist the settings in the Setting browser > using the 'Export settings' button so that they will be loaded by default in your other images. And I've been > using Pharo for some time :) > > > disagree :) > here the reason: everybody can think their settings deserve better exposition, and then add a way to change the L&F to add a settings option. > > I still view some settings as more special then the others, especially those that send data out of your image. you can ask that in a special sentence, like the âgo to settingsâ recommendation. That wouldnât break anything (you can take the opportunity to explain why you want the dataâ¦ otherwise natural tendency will be to deny it anyway :) > > that will break inner coherence of Pharo. > and we need to think *all tools* in pharo as one unique IDEâ¦ it has to be coherent. > your little cog breaks coherence. > > Very few things in the current spotter UI are coherent with any other tool from Pharo :) you know that you are not helping your case, isnât? ;) Spotter is a particular toolâ¦ but its particularities does not allow it to break anythingâ¦ > Yes, the fast that we do not store this setting using the normal settings mechanism it's a bug that should be fixed. > > > I admit we need to do a pass on Settings browser to group better, explain better and remove unnecessary stuffâ¦ maybe on Pharo5 we will find the time. > > For Pharo 5 maybe we can move in the opposite direction. Why not move the settings closed to the tools then separate them in the Settings Browser? wellâ¦ we need to discuss it. In particular, I like the vision of one IDE, not separated tools. And I would like a good âcontrol centerâ more than many separated and probably incoherent (but certainly harder to maintain) options. but againâ¦ for Pharo5 Iâm open to a discussionâ¦ not for Pharo4 :) Esteban > > > Cheers, > Andrei > >

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo code of conduct?

by Ben Coman

In agree in principal. Polite is better, and personal attacks should be avoided. However on the flip side, you know I like to quote ESR [1]: "Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by people actively applying them, visibly, in public. Don't whine that all criticism should have been conveyed via private e-mail: That's not how it works. Nor is it useful to insist you've been personally insulted when someone comments that one of your claims was wrong, or that his views differ. Those are loser attitudes. There have been hacker forums where, out of some misguided sense of hyper-courtesy, participants are banned from posting any fault-finding with another's posts, and told âDon't say anything if you're unwilling to help the user.â The resulting departure of clueful participants to elsewhere causes them to descend into meaningless babble and become useless as technical forums. Exaggeratedly âfriendlyâ (in that fashion) or useful: Pick one." Actually I think our community does pretty well at being both useful and friendly. cheers -ben [1] http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Linus might not (always) be the nicest person, but he is not a troll. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) > > <quote> > In Internet slang, a troll (/ËtroÊl/, /ËtrÉl/) is a person who sows > discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by > posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online > community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the > deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of > otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] > </quote> > > I don't think he goes around upsetting/harassing people just for the hell > of it ;-) > > After quickly skimming the Ubuntu doc, I must say I like it. > > > On 10 Mar 2015, at 13:24, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Well you could also rename "ubuntu code of conduct" to "pissing against > the wind" to be more accurate. Since their biggest troll is Linus himself, > the creator of Linux. > > > > And since they are not going to kick him out any time soon , such > document is as pointless as it could ever be. > > > > Fortunately Pharo is in the opposite side and a far better position than > the Linux community will ever be. The real question is that if pharo ever > gets a troll like Linus that also happens to be a very substantial > contributor will the Pharo community have the courage to kick this guy out. > I would most definetly not be sticking around to find out. > > > > I love Pharo , but I love having fun with coding even more. > > > > "Good conduct" is a flag almost all people wave around but very few > willing to fight for it. A piece of paper is just meaningless without the > relevant actions.People who have zero tolerance against behaviour with the > clear intention to ridicule , insult and divide a community. > > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Christophe Demarey < > Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > We got some threads around the best way to work / communicate between > ourselves. > > We are not the only ones concerned! Take a look at: > > â¢ > http://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-adopts-conflict-resolution-code/ > > â¢ http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct > > > > I really like the ubuntu code of conduct. We could adopt one for Pharo: > > 1/ to always keep the fun > > 2/ to describe how works the Pharo community to newcomers. > > > > Christophe. > > > > >

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Andrei Chis

Until this conversation started I had no idea that you can actually persist the settings in the Setting browser using the 'Export settings' button so that they will be loaded by default in your other images. And I've been using Pharo for some time :) disagree :) > here the reason: everybody can think their settings deserve better > exposition, and then add a way to change the L&F to add a settings option. > I still view some settings as more special then the others, especially those that send data out of your image. > that will break inner coherence of Pharo. > and we need to think *all tools* in pharo as one unique IDEâ¦ it has to be > coherent. > your little cog breaks coherence. > Very few things in the current spotter UI are coherent with any other tool from Pharo :) Yes, the fast that we do not store this setting using the normal settings mechanism it's a bug that should be fixed. > > I admit we need to do a pass on Settings browser to group better, explain > better and remove unnecessary stuffâ¦ maybe on Pharo5 we will find the time. > For Pharo 5 maybe we can move in the opposite direction. Why not move the settings closed to the tools then separate them in the Settings Browser? Cheers, Andrei > >

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Andrei Chis

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > A message in the top of the tool saying something like âHey, looks like is > the first time you use Spotter. Please go to settings [BUTTON] to customise > your experienceâ (message that disapear after you press the button) would > be a good solution, IMO. > This can work, but still the message that we want to pass as soon as you open spotter is that one of the settings is for enabling sending of usage data (yes we want data :) ), otherwise there is no point in having a recorder for usage data. What about the first time you open spotter in a new image we display at the top of spotter a UI showing a message like the one that you said + plus the checkbox for enabling sending of usage data. When you set a setting or close that UI it goes away :) Cheers, Andrei > Esteban > > > On 10 Mar 2015, at 12:12, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > wrote: > > > > EstebanLM wrote > >> giving such relevance to an option you will use just once is not good > GUI > >> design, sorry :) > > > > How about an DoIt and description in "Welcome to Pharo 4.0!" or a > separate > > window to make it more prominent? Or maybe the button on the Playground > > could be a radio with no value that disappears when set either way? > Remember > > we're Blue Plane; we don't have to choose between existing options only > ;) > > > > > > > > ----- > > Cheers, > > Sean > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/latest-GTools-settings-tp4810715p4810896.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > >

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo code of conduct?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Linus might not (always) be the nicest person, but he is not a troll. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) <quote> In Internet slang, a troll (/ËtroÊl/, /ËtrÉl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] </quote> I don't think he goes around upsetting/harassing people just for the hell of it ;-) After quickly skimming the Ubuntu doc, I must say I like it. > On 10 Mar 2015, at 13:24, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Well you could also rename "ubuntu code of conduct" to "pissing against the wind" to be more accurate. Since their biggest troll is Linus himself, the creator of Linux. > > And since they are not going to kick him out any time soon , such document is as pointless as it could ever be. > > Fortunately Pharo is in the opposite side and a far better position than the Linux community will ever be. The real question is that if pharo ever gets a troll like Linus that also happens to be a very substantial contributor will the Pharo community have the courage to kick this guy out. I would most definetly not be sticking around to find out. > > I love Pharo , but I love having fun with coding even more. > > "Good conduct" is a flag almost all people wave around but very few willing to fight for it. A piece of paper is just meaningless without the relevant actions.People who have zero tolerance against behaviour with the clear intention to ridicule , insult and divide a community. > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hello, > > We got some threads around the best way to work / communicate between ourselves. > We are not the only ones concerned! Take a look at: > â¢ http://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-adopts-conflict-resolution-code/ > â¢ http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct > > I really like the ubuntu code of conduct. We could adopt one for Pharo: > 1/ to always keep the fun > 2/ to describe how works the Pharo community to newcomers. > > Christophe. >

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Esteban Lorenzano

A message in the top of the tool saying something like âHey, looks like is the first time you use Spotter. Please go to settings [BUTTON] to customise your experienceâ (message that disapear after you press the button) would be a good solution, IMO. Esteban > On 10 Mar 2015, at 12:12, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > EstebanLM wrote >> giving such relevance to an option you will use just once is not good GUI >> design, sorry :) > > How about an DoIt and description in "Welcome to Pharo 4.0!" or a separate > window to make it more prominent? Or maybe the button on the Playground > could be a radio with no value that disappears when set either way? Remember > we're Blue Plane; we don't have to choose between existing options only ;) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/latest-GTools-settings-tp4810715p4810896.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo code of conduct?

by kilon alios

Well you could also rename "ubuntu code of conduct" to "pissing against the wind" to be more accurate. Since their biggest troll is Linus himself, the creator of Linux. And since they are not going to kick him out any time soon , such document is as pointless as it could ever be. Fortunately Pharo is in the opposite side and a far better position than the Linux community will ever be. The real question is that if pharo ever gets a troll like Linus that also happens to be a very substantial contributor will the Pharo community have the courage to kick this guy out. I would most definetly not be sticking around to find out. I love Pharo , but I love having fun with coding even more. "Good conduct" is a flag almost all people wave around but very few willing to fight for it. A piece of paper is just meaningless without the relevant actions.People who have zero tolerance against behaviour with the clear intention to ridicule , insult and divide a community. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Christophe Demarey < Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hello, > > We got some threads around the best way to work / communicate between > ourselves. > We are not the only ones concerned! Take a look at: > > - http://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-adopts-conflict-resolution-code/ > - http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct > > > I really like the ubuntu code of conduct. We could adopt one for Pharo: > 1/ to always keep the fun > 2/ to describe how works the Pharo community to newcomers. > > Christophe. >

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] new link to query all projects in smalltalkhub

by Sean P. DeNigris

EstebanLM wrote > yes, I thought it too, but descriptions are sometimes very longâ¦ it would > be too much. project description first: aNumber? ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/new-link-to-query-all-projects-in-smalltalkhub-tp4810… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo code of conduct?

by Sean P. DeNigris

demarey wrote > We got some threads around the best way to work / communicate between > ourselves. > I really like the ubuntu code of conduct. We could adopt one for Pharo: Good idea :) And, at the same time, I've enjoyed the fact that we all give each other a little leeway to speak candidly without necessarily being politically correct. As mentioned in the Ubuntu code, personal attacks seem to be a clear sign that things are off track. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-code-of-conduct-tp4810860p4810901.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 10, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] latest GTools settings

by Sean P. DeNigris

EstebanLM wrote > giving such relevance to an option you will use just once is not good GUI > design, sorry :) How about an DoIt and description in "Welcome to Pharo 4.0!" or a separate window to make it more prominent? Or maybe the button on the Playground could be a radio with no value that disappears when set either way? Remember we're Blue Plane; we don't have to choose between existing options only ;) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/latest-GTools-settings-tp4810715p4810896.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 10, 2015