March 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

in Pharo4.0,Latest update: #40581: push down -> DNU

by stepharo

Hi When I select an instance method and use push down in a subclass without obvious conflicts. I get two DNUs. realClass ^baseClass realClass theMetaClass dnu: theMetaClass while baseClass is a class realClass -> nil the environement does not contain the class. Now I did a class rename before and I wonder if it is not the one that is broken :( Stef

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap

by stepharo

I do not know may on the side of roadmap on github We can use markdown to have a readable format now it can be boring because linear Stef Le 29/3/15 20:15, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > Ok. > > So, where do we put this board? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:15 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > >> >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr >> <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >> >> Hi guys >> >> I have a general comments. >> Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it >> was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo. >> >> >> I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was >> argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that >> because <example> is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays >> a secondary importance. This implies that collectively, we reason >> about GT as being separate from Pharo. > > I do not know. But having the visibility is what I propose. >> >> Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough >> his plans. >> >> And in general groups (like rmod too). >> >> We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in >> January: >> - Spotter >> - Inspector/Playground >> - Chatter >> >> >> For example, we just get that there is a support for code >> critics. >> >> >> You just get the news because it just happened days before the >> announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master >> plan. It was a mere couple of hours of playing around with >> implementing more examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan >> Reichhart (the newest GT team member). >> >> Please look back, and you will notice that every significant >> feature that is released comes with a prominent description on >> http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe >> examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide >> more. > > What I'm saying. > Ok let me repeat it. > Is that if we have a place where a guy can come and see the list > of people working on different topics > then he can know who to ask or pay attention when starting something. > >> >> About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing >> regularly with him to make sure that I >> would not launch something that would compete with him and >> that I do not pay a student for >> something in concurrence. >> >> I discussed with Alberto student that should work on >> improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of >> a guy coming to work with us. >> >> So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of >> announce on what people are doing. >> For example starting 1 of april >> Franck will work on improving pretty printing >> Merwane will work on 3D and event touch >> Thomas will work on code review >> Cyril will work on pillar improvements >> Kevin on decompiler >> Julien on remote environment or new collection >> >> >> That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now. > > Indeed because it was not announced and I propose to have a better > way to do it. > We usually sak every student to do an announce to the mailing-list > when they start to work on some topics > to get exposure/feedback and ideas. > Now we could just have one page with this information. > >> >> On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the >> Pharo IDE with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange. >> >> >> So what do you think. For me I think that this is important. >> Because I would like to lower frustration. >> >> >> What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know >> we are switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to >> not be enough. What else is needed? > > Doru. > I'm not talking only about GT. > Now I can keep the projects we are planning to work on for us and > do not pay attention to people but it will be counterproductive > and generating > frustration. But this is ok for me. > I just suggest that we get a page even on github with a list of > topics and people + status > > >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap

by Tudor Girba

Ok. So, where do we put this board? Cheers, Doru On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:15 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I have a general comments. >> Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the >> case) think that GT was out of Pharo. > > > I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was argued > that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because <example> is > in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary importance. This > implies that collectively, we reason about GT as being separate from Pharo. > > > I do not know. But having the visibility is what I propose. > > > Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. > > And in general groups (like rmod too). >> > > We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January: > - Spotter > - Inspector/Playground > - Chatter > > > For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics. >> > > You just get the news because it just happened days before the > announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It was a > mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more examples of > how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team member). > > Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature > that is released comes with a prominent description on > http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe examples > of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more. > > > What I'm saying. > Ok let me repeat it. > Is that if we have a place where a guy can come and see the list of people > working on different topics > then he can know who to ask or pay attention when starting something. > > > About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly >> with him to make sure that I >> would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not >> pay a student for >> something in concurrence. > > I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving >> Ecompletion and I change the topic of >> a guy coming to work with us. >> > So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on >> what people are doing. >> For example starting 1 of april >> Franck will work on improving pretty printing >> Merwane will work on 3D and event touch >> Thomas will work on code review >> Cyril will work on pillar improvements >> Kevin on decompiler >> Julien on remote environment or new collection >> > > That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now. > > > Indeed because it was not announced and I propose to have a better way to > do it. > We usually sak every student to do an announce to the mailing-list when > they start to work on some topics > to get exposure/feedback and ideas. > Now we could just have one page with this information. > > > On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE > with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange. > > > >> So what do you think. For me I think that this is important. >> Because I would like to lower frustration. >> > > What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are > switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be enough. > What else is needed? > > > Doru. > I'm not talking only about GT. > Now I can keep the projects we are planning to work on for us and do not > pay attention to people but it will be counterproductive and generating > frustration. But this is ok for me. > I just suggest that we get a page even on github with a list of topics and > people + status > > > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap

by stepharo

>> Merwane will work on 3D and event touch > Glad to hear this! I guess this is related to what Pierre will do with the events. Pierre contacted JB (again because I sent him the info and this is ad-hoc). This is why I propose a blackboard. JB started to work on improving OSWindow multitouch support. Now all the SDL events are reified. JB started to port a kind of reactive library in ruby to see if we want to use that to identify gesture and raise events. JB worked on it without being paid. From Monday Merwane is joining and will help probably more on the 3d aspects. If pierre wants to help/sync he is welcomed. Our goal is to have - basic events for all devices and blob reported - advanced event (like scrolling when you have two fingers on mac) raised - be able to specifiy how such events are recognised. I ported the 1D recogniser from Squeak to Pharo and there are two other recognisers to be ported from JS to Java and we should check Genie's code to see if we can reuse it. Stef > > It would be great that Merwane will sync with us on this. What does he plan to do? Will he worked on top of Woden? Can we get in touch about this? > > Cheers, > Alexandre >

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap

by stepharo

> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > Hi guys > > I have a general comments. > Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was > not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo. > > > I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was > argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because > <example> is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary > importance. This implies that collectively, we reason about GT as > being separate from Pharo. I do not know. But having the visibility is what I propose. > > Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. > > And in general groups (like rmod too). > > We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January: > - Spotter > - Inspector/Playground > - Chatter > > > For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics. > > > You just get the news because it just happened days before the > announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It > was a mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more > examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team > member). > > Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature > that is released comes with a prominent description on > http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe > examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more. What I'm saying. Ok let me repeat it. Is that if we have a place where a guy can come and see the list of people working on different topics then he can know who to ask or pay attention when starting something. > > About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing > regularly with him to make sure that I > would not launch something that would compete with him and that I > do not pay a student for > something in concurrence. > > I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving > Ecompletion and I change the topic of > a guy coming to work with us. > > So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of > announce on what people are doing. > For example starting 1 of april > Franck will work on improving pretty printing > Merwane will work on 3D and event touch > Thomas will work on code review > Cyril will work on pillar improvements > Kevin on decompiler > Julien on remote environment or new collection > > > That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now. Indeed because it was not announced and I propose to have a better way to do it. We usually sak every student to do an announce to the mailing-list when they start to work on some topics to get exposure/feedback and ideas. Now we could just have one page with this information. > > On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE > with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange. > > > So what do you think. For me I think that this is important. > Because I would like to lower frustration. > > > What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are > switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be > enough. What else is needed? Doru. I'm not talking only about GT. Now I can keep the projects we are planning to work on for us and do not pay attention to people but it will be counterproductive and generating frustration. But this is ok for me. I just suggest that we get a page even on github with a list of topics and people + status > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap

by stepharo

>> On 28 Mar 2015, at 16:05, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action. >> >> Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :) > +1 > > We need options, backups, alternatives, it is a free world, and nothing is set in stone. I'm not against options. I'm proposing to have a map and to be able to take decisions about options knowing what others are doing. Now if you do not want to know what we are doing internally then people should not cry if one day with discard works of somebody else because we planned and are working on something. So to me this is simple: you just say: I'm working on X with a 2 line description and this is it. Stef > >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: >> stepharo wrote >>> So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on >>> what people are doing. >> Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things >> (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally >> overlap with someone else's work. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > >

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Existing <script> <example> pragmas and new GT needs

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 29 Mar 2015, at 04:30, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > With <example> in dispute and concern with locking in semantics for Pharo 4, it might be pragmatic for both sides to back away from <example> for the Pharo 4 release to mirrored pragmas <exampleInstance> & <exampleCode>. It will be easier to discuss semantics in Pharo 5 for a new <example> rather than modifying and existing one. It should be no trouble to carry forward <exampleInstance> & <exampleCode> for a while before they are "maybe" deprecated. > > To add a further 2c, I wonder if Pharo 5 might consider parameterising <example>: > * <example:instance> or <example:inspect> or <example:returnsValue> > * <example:code> or <example:doit> or <example:play> > > then you might even have <example:inspect,play> Ben, assuming your concise summary is correct, (the other mails were too long to read in detail), then I like your suggestions, both (the second one even more).

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground do-it-and-go alternative name

by Alain Rastoul

+1 Go play and home (stef's idea for the tab title) ... much much more friendly than workspace and do it. :) Le 29/03/2015 08:07, Ben Coman a Ã©crit : > Just sharing a passing thought... Given that we have "Play"ground, an > alternative name for <Do It And Go> might be <Play> - except it competes > with <PrintIt> for the most obvious shortcut. A further alternative may > be "<Go play>. > > cheers -ben -- Regards, Alain

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo sprint on Friday, 3rd April

by Ben Coman

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 5:38 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > Le 28/3/15 08:49, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : > >> On 27 Mar 2015, at 22:04, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >>> >>> Le 27/03/2015 17:11, Jean-Christophe Bach a Ã©crit : >>> >>>> Hi Pharoers, >>>> >>>> This email as a reminder for the next Pharo sprint: it will be next >>>> Friday (3rd April) at Inria Lille. >>>> You can also join us on the IRC channel (#pharo on irc.freenode.net >>>> server). During the sprint, we will try to synchronize local and remote >>>> Pharo sprinters. >>>> >>>> JC >>>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Is there any Pharo related things to prepare in advance if one wants to >>> attempt remotely through IRC channel? >>> >>> - try to connect before to check that IRC works >> - we try to have some issues tagged with âsprintâ on the issue tracker.. >> but this time it will be focused on bugs for Pharo4, I guess. >> > > but there will be not enough bugs. As well as trying to nail down the failing tests in the CI, there are some additional tests that only fail when TestRunner is driven from the UI. Could these be attacked? cheers -ben

March 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground do-it-and-go alternative name

by Jigyasa Grover

Ben Seems to be a nice idea :) On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > Just sharing a passing thought... Given that we have "Play"ground, an > alternative name for <Do It And Go> might be <Play> - except it competes > with <PrintIt> for the most obvious shortcut. A further alternative may be > "<Go play>. > > cheers -ben >

March 29, 2015