March 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Existing <script> <example> pragmas and new GT needs

by Ben Coman

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > - Modeling Examples to Test and Understand Software, Markus Gaelli, PhD > Thesis, 2006 > http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/phd/gaelli-phd.pdf > > - JExample: Exploiting Dependencies Between Tests to Improve Defect > Localization, Kuhn etal, 2008 > http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/papers/Kuhn08aJExample.pdf > (Phexample is also available on SmalltalkHub) > In spite of the first using "example" as a metaphor and the second using "example" in its name, these are references are about composable tests, not examples. While a test can serve as an example, a test is a different concept than an "Example". So yes, its a great idea to explicitly define dependencies between tests by them returning instances to be used by other tests, but there are plenty of examples that do not follow that pattern, nor should all examples be forced to follow that pattern, nor should they be force to be tagged something other than an <example>. Language is a funny thing. Dictionaries tend to list all "possible" meanings and don't necessarily indicate which are the more common usage. The supporters of "exemplar" seems to have a German background, and maybe the German word "exemplar" is an exact match, but it seems the meaning has evolved since English imported it. As a native english speaker, to me "exemplar" has an immediate sense of being too exotic for the purpose, and also more a meaning of "the BEST example/instance of..." - which I think overstates the purpose here. I have marked the more common meanings and underlined significant words in the the supplied dictionary meanings... On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > what you think of the made proposal to use "exemplar" for the new GT > mechanism. > > See the definition for <exemplar>: > > http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exemplar > more this --> "One that is _worthy_ of imitation; a _perfect_ example > or model" > less this --> "One that is typical or representative" > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exemplar > more this --> "an _admired_ person or thing that is considered an > example that _deserves_ to be copied" > less this --> "a typical example" > > http://www.dict.cc/?s=exemplar > "instance" > "specimen" > "sample" > Note that the german-english dictionary also proposes "sample", which to me seems the most suitable for the intent of returning an item for inspection... http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sample "a representative part or a single item from a larger whole or group especially _when-presented-for-inspection_ or shown as evidence of quality : specimen" cheers -ben

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] 4.0 Meta Repo access

by Thierry Goubier

Oh, this is already done. Cool :) Thierry 2015-03-26 13:30 GMT+01:00 Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com>: > > > 2015-03-26 12:40 GMT+01:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>: > >> Sean P. DeNigris wrote >> > Good point. It's a general StHub limitation, but we could put it in the >> > description... >> >> How's this: >> About MetaRepoForPharo40 >> >> This repo is publicly writable. All you need is a SmalltalkHub >> account. >> > > Ok. I'll do that... > > Thierry > > >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/4-0-Meta-Repo-access-tp4815239p4815275.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> >> >

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] 4.0 Meta Repo access

by Thierry Goubier

2015-03-26 12:40 GMT+01:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>: > Sean P. DeNigris wrote > > Good point. It's a general StHub limitation, but we could put it in the > > description... > > How's this: > About MetaRepoForPharo40 > > This repo is publicly writable. All you need is a SmalltalkHub account. > Ok. I'll do that... Thierry > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/4-0-Meta-Repo-access-tp4815239p4815275.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] 4.0 Meta Repo access

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sean P. DeNigris wrote > Good point. It's a general StHub limitation, but we could put it in the > description... How's this: About MetaRepoForPharo40 This repo is publicly writable. All you need is a SmalltalkHub account. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/4-0-Meta-Repo-access-tp4815239p4815275.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] 4.0 Meta Repo access

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Esteban, this is not discoverable. Nothing in MetaRepoForPharo40 description or settings says so. There isn't even a description in MetaRepoForPharo40. Thierry 2015-03-26 12:08 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > MetaRepos are public access... no one needs explicit access to commit there. > > cheers, > Esteban > > > On 26 Mar 2015, at 10:12, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi Uko, > > It's done. Check your smallttalkhub account. > > Thierry > > 2015-03-26 10:06 GMT+01:00 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > >> Hi, can anyone give me an access to Pharo 4.0 meta repository? >> >> Cheers. >> Uko >> >> > >

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] 4.0 Meta Repo access

by Sean P. DeNigris

Thierry Goubier wrote > this is not discoverable. Good point. It's a general StHub limitation, but we could put it in the description... ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/4-0-Meta-Repo-access-tp4815239p4815274.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Existing <script> <example> pragmas and new GT needs

by kilon alios

+1 couldn't agree more :) On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Okâ¦ my 2c: > > Basically there is a difference between an âexampleâ and a prototype, > which is what the gtExample intends to do. Exemplar is just another way to > name a prototype. > Sorry to make you sad and tiredâ¦ but when you introduce such an important > new tool as all the gtools are, you cannot expect people to accept all your > choices âas isââ¦ and debate is the only way to achieve some consensus. > > Esteban > > ps: we are just days from release and we are all stressed a lotâ¦ so lets > take a breath and consider things with the appropriate distance. We are not > talking about the cure for cancer here, just the right name for a pragma, > in a method. > > > On 26 Mar 2015, at 10:02, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > > > Hi Tudor, > > > >> We will rename <example> back to <gtExample> and keep the API as it is. > That will leave Pharo 4 with one <example> method while the other 100 will > >use <gtExample>. This will be available with the next GT integration. > > > > As I already wrote (and Guillermo equally pointed out): most of them are > there because you created/introduced many extension > > methods with GT to provide these sample instances like in $a for > Charater or 42 for Integer, ... > > Which is completely valid to demonstrate how usefull your new extension > is. But it is because you investigated so far more to > > demonstrate this new mechanism. > > > > > > And yes, currently we have just one <example> in the image (beside some > other in external projects). But if we do not > > want to rely on the exampleXXX pattern anymore we will mark the typical > example methods with <example> in the future and would > > have around 140 in the latest image: > > > > |coll| > > coll := IdentitySet new. > > Object withAllSubclassesDo: [:aClass | > > aClass class selectorsDo: [:selector | > > (selector beginsWith: 'example') ifTrue: [ coll add: selector > ] > > ]]. > > ^coll > > > > If we dont mark them I agree that there are only a few counterwise. > > > > But again: from my side it is not about the current numbers. It is about > the future mechanism, clear and > > understandable concepts and naming. > > > > The usualy exampleXXX demos for code fits well with <example> from the > name and mentally. "Example" > > is a very generous term for something to look at and learn. > > > > In Pharo one can now demonstrate in the new GT inspector lively ready > made instances! > > You feature and the research bound to it is not only important but a > real improvement. > > I like that and I'm sure this will push us forward a lot. > > > > Still IMHO mentally using <example> for depicting "code to look at" does > fit namewise and > > conceptualy very well with the known and usual example methods in the > image or external > > packages. Some of them provide an instance, but many of them just show > how to use code. > > > > And yes: I would the new GT mechanism to use a term and pragma name that > better depicts > > what should be provided from the one who uses it: typical example > instances or exemplars > > of the class. > > > > When one creates a class > > > > Object subclass: #RevolutionarySystem > > instanceVariableNames: 'name' > > classVariableNames: '' > > category: 'The-World' > > > > he can implement a class side method to use the new mechanism: > > > > uniqueExemplar > > <exemplar> > > > > ^RevolutionarySystem called: 'Pharo' > > > > And this class side method returns an exemplary instance. If such a > method should > > also serves as an example method (in the tradition of a code example to > look at) > > one can even mark it with both pragmas. > > > >> The decision has nothing to do with arguments. > > > > Why do you negotiate instead of (at a minimum) ellaborate what you think > of the made > > proposal to use "exemplar" for the new GT mechanism. > > > > See the definition for <exemplar>: > > > > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exemplar > > "a model or pattern to be copied or imitated" > > "a typical example or instance" > > > > http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exemplar > > "One that is worthy of imitation; a perfect example or model" > > "One that is typical or representative" > > > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exemplar > > "an admired person or thing that is considered an example that > deserves to be copied" > > "a typical example" > > > > http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/exemplar > > "formal a good or typical example" > > > > http://www.dict.cc/?s=exemplar > > "instance" > > "specimen" > > "sample" > > > > All the 100 instances now returns by GT extension are such exemplars: > they are > > typical instances like $a or 42 one can use as a model or pattern to be > copied > > or imitated. > > > > Would'nt that perfectly fit with what you intended with your new > feature: the preview > > should help people to just inspect a class, look at the new "e.g." tab > and learn from > > premade instances? > > > >> The release is too important and we got distracted from the goal. > > > > No doubt that the release is important and fixing it NOW from the > technical side is easy > > as I demonstrated with the changeset. I guess rolling back <gtExample> > would take you > > more time than reviewing it. > > > > Before doing any action on your side I would really like to know your > opinion about > > <exemplar>. I'm fine when you can not accept it - but please tell me > about the reasons. > > > > Bye > > T. > > > > > > > > >

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] 4.0 Meta Repo access

by Esteban Lorenzano

MetaRepos are public accessâ¦ no one needs explicit access to commit there. cheers, Esteban > On 26 Mar 2015, at 10:12, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Uko, > > It's done. Check your smallttalkhub account. > > Thierry > > 2015-03-26 10:06 GMT+01:00 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com <mailto:yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>>: > Hi, can anyone give me an access to Pharo 4.0 meta repository? > > Cheers. > Uko > >

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Existing <script> <example> pragmas and new GT needs

by Esteban Lorenzano

Okâ¦ my 2c: Basically there is a difference between an âexampleâ and a prototype, which is what the gtExample intends to do. Exemplar is just another way to name a prototype. Sorry to make you sad and tiredâ¦ but when you introduce such an important new tool as all the gtools are, you cannot expect people to accept all your choices âas isââ¦ and debate is the only way to achieve some consensus. Esteban ps: we are just days from release and we are all stressed a lotâ¦ so lets take a breath and consider things with the appropriate distance. We are not talking about the cure for cancer here, just the right name for a pragma, in a method. > On 26 Mar 2015, at 10:02, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Hi Tudor, > >> We will rename <example> back to <gtExample> and keep the API as it is. That will leave Pharo 4 with one <example> method while the other 100 will >use <gtExample>. This will be available with the next GT integration. > > As I already wrote (and Guillermo equally pointed out): most of them are there because you created/introduced many extension > methods with GT to provide these sample instances like in $a for Charater or 42 for Integer, ... > Which is completely valid to demonstrate how usefull your new extension is. But it is because you investigated so far more to > demonstrate this new mechanism. > > > And yes, currently we have just one <example> in the image (beside some other in external projects). But if we do not > want to rely on the exampleXXX pattern anymore we will mark the typical example methods with <example> in the future and would > have around 140 in the latest image: > > |coll| > coll := IdentitySet new. > Object withAllSubclassesDo: [:aClass | > aClass class selectorsDo: [:selector | > (selector beginsWith: 'example') ifTrue: [ coll add: selector ] > ]]. > ^coll > > If we dont mark them I agree that there are only a few counterwise. > > But again: from my side it is not about the current numbers. It is about the future mechanism, clear and > understandable concepts and naming. > > The usualy exampleXXX demos for code fits well with <example> from the name and mentally. "Example" > is a very generous term for something to look at and learn. > > In Pharo one can now demonstrate in the new GT inspector lively ready made instances! > You feature and the research bound to it is not only important but a real improvement. > I like that and I'm sure this will push us forward a lot. > > Still IMHO mentally using <example> for depicting "code to look at" does fit namewise and > conceptualy very well with the known and usual example methods in the image or external > packages. Some of them provide an instance, but many of them just show how to use code. > > And yes: I would the new GT mechanism to use a term and pragma name that better depicts > what should be provided from the one who uses it: typical example instances or exemplars > of the class. > > When one creates a class > > Object subclass: #RevolutionarySystem > instanceVariableNames: 'name' > classVariableNames: '' > category: 'The-World' > > he can implement a class side method to use the new mechanism: > > uniqueExemplar > <exemplar> > > ^RevolutionarySystem called: 'Pharo' > > And this class side method returns an exemplary instance. If such a method should > also serves as an example method (in the tradition of a code example to look at) > one can even mark it with both pragmas. > >> The decision has nothing to do with arguments. > > Why do you negotiate instead of (at a minimum) ellaborate what you think of the made > proposal to use "exemplar" for the new GT mechanism. > > See the definition for <exemplar>: > > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exemplar > "a model or pattern to be copied or imitated" > "a typical example or instance" > > http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exemplar > "One that is worthy of imitation; a perfect example or model" > "One that is typical or representative" > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exemplar > "an admired person or thing that is considered an example that deserves to be copied" > "a typical example" > > http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/exemplar > "formal a good or typical example" > > http://www.dict.cc/?s=exemplar > "instance" > "specimen" > "sample" > > All the 100 instances now returns by GT extension are such exemplars: they are > typical instances like $a or 42 one can use as a model or pattern to be copied > or imitated. > > Would'nt that perfectly fit with what you intended with your new feature: the preview > should help people to just inspect a class, look at the new "e.g." tab and learn from > premade instances? > >> The release is too important and we got distracted from the goal. > > No doubt that the release is important and fixing it NOW from the technical side is easy > as I demonstrated with the changeset. I guess rolling back <gtExample> would take you > more time than reviewing it. > > Before doing any action on your side I would really like to know your opinion about > <exemplar>. I'm fine when you can not accept it - but please tell me about the reasons. > > Bye > T. > > >

March 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Making Seaside work in Pharo 4

by Sean P. DeNigris

Marcus Denker-4 wrote > It was in the âprivateâ category and as such removed when there where no > senders anymore after a > cleanup. Ahh, I like that practice! ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Making-Seaside-work-in-Pharo-4-tp4814663p4815270.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 26, 2015