March 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[pharo-project/pharo-core] cd1f15: 40540

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/4.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: cd1f15d0708b6758fa44f16ef67096540414f68e https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/cd1f15d0708b6758fa44f16e… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2015-03-07 (Sat, 07 Mar 2015) Changed paths: M Manifest-CriticBrowser.package/SingleCodeCriticResultList.class/instance/initialization/setTextModelForClassOrMethod_.st R ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script539.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script540.st R ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40539.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40540.st M ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M Slot.package/HiddenInstanceVariableSlot.class/README.md M Slot.package/PropertyBaseSlot.class/instance/initalize/initialize.st M Slot.package/Slot.class/README.md M Spec-Examples.package/ProtocolViewer.class/README.md M Spec-Examples.package/ProtocolViewer.class/instance/initialization/initializePresenter.st M Spec-Examples.package/ProtocolViewer.class/instance/initialization/initializeWidgets.st Log Message: ----------- 40540 15082 Some typos in comments of Slots https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15082 15011 update spec example ProtocolViewer https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15011 15077 CriticBrowser MNU Trait>>methodClass https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15077 http://files.pharo.org/image/40/40540.zip

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] About Spec menu:

by stepharo

> I've not a strong opinion, but I also can't think of a case. I will > ask whether this will change will be held until after Pharo 4 Release. > It doesn't seem a bug fix. indeed but I will not stop coding on Spec because I do not want to lose my momentum so probably I will commit to the spec repo and add a build so load the latest. > cheers -ben

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by kilon alios

"That is not really helpfull. Anything that uses cairo? I would like to make some comparisons and it would help if I can recreate the same animations. (I did some work with cairo and python, but no animation. I used cairo for animations together with GTK, sure this was faster but these applications are only made for the animation, just a simple drawing loop. Pharo of course has much more that happens in between)." No I was not talking as a developer but rather as a user, so by "everything" I mean literally everything I use, cairo based or not. I am no cairo developer , I only took a look at the pycairo docs once. I have picked the habit of taking a look at how much cpu each application consumes by using Blender. As you can imagine blender can eat cpu cycles like peanuts, so I have an overall idea under which circumstances the cpu can max out so I have learned to avoid it by utlising several techniques. I am also a blender python developer. But then its not hard to imagine that when you see a simple animation of a small logo slide in a very small area cosuming 30-50% of CPU and flicker, that 2d game running in full screen or even half screen would be a no go. On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 4:38 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 07 Mar 2015, at 00:02, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > 2015-03-06 20:18 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >> >> On 06 Mar 2015, at 18:40, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> very good example and very informative thank you. >> >> Sadly it also shows that even with Athens Pharo is incredible slow. >> Simple animation spiking a single 3.2 Ghz core to 50% does not look very >> promising for heavy big size graphic based animations. Which is not a >> surprise since this was also evident the first time I tried the VGTiger >> demo. But still , its better than no Athens ;) >> >> >> Thatâs because we are converting the rendering into a bitmap that is >> after drawn for the vmâ¦ a complete inefficient mechanism. >> > > I heard this multiple times, but I still don't get it. The (cairo) > rendering happens on a (in memory) imagesurface. There is no extra > allocation > of a bitmap for every drawing on the screen. Drawing the rendering on the > screen is a bitblt (copybits) operation, like it is done for every other > Form. > > > I will try to explainâ¦ is a problem in several ways: > 1) what is not efficient at all is BitBlt plugin, our current way to > display things. Want an example? just open a new image, open a browser (or > a playground, or any window) and start moving itâ¦. then watch how your cpu > starts heating (in my machine, is around 35%, some timesâ¦ just one > browser). > 2) Nowâ¦ what we do with Athens is: > a) create an in-memory surface and draw things there. > b) convert that surface into a bitblt compatible format (this is actually > just a copy, not much actually) > c) display the result into the current world window (another copy) > 3) Now imagine all that cycling (stepping)â¦ > > With OSWindow (SDL2) what we do is: > 1) create a SDL2 surface > 2) draw on it > 3) cycle on (2) > > > >> I have a running experiment for drawing directly in the canvas (using >> SDL2 library) and the tiger demo drops from eating 70% of cpu to 9% in my >> machine. >> > > We can do this without SDL, but of course less platform independent, with > cairos win32 , quartz, or xrender (os dependent) surfaces. This is really > fast, no need > for an (in memory) image surface. But one problem with this approach is, > some morphs need to access the current displays Form data (HandMorph for > example). > And this does not work (or not easily) with the OS device surface. > Does this work with cairo and SDL? > > > yes, why not? > and yesâ¦ we can have several backends. The advantage on using SDL2 is that > you do not need to maintain one different backend for each platform. Of > course, it has also drawbacks, as alwaysâ¦ but our manpower is determinant > here and we decided to take the âcommon approachââ¦ we will have time to > improve later, if we find is necessary (but frankly, I do not think so for > the moment) > > > One thing that is really slow is painting an image with Athens, because > the cairo backend creates a new surface for this image and uses this > image as a pattern paint. The slow part is copying and converting the > image data into the surface. > I already proposed an alternative, (it's a bit like cheating), we can use > the bitblt to copy and convert the image data into the surface, this again > is much faster. > > > this is something inherent to cairo (and athens as a result)â¦ I suppose > game programmers already dealt with this problem. I suggest look there for > answers (I didnât look there, nor seen your proposed solution yetâ¦ sorry I > will as soon as I find some time). > > cheers, > Esteban > > > > >> Our idea is to move pharo in that direction for Pharo5 so next year we >> will be a lot better :) >> >> Esteban >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com >> > wrote: >> >>> This is really good that you are diving into Athens. It deserves it! >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> > On Mar 6, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >>> > >>> > There is a "play" button in the SketchBrowser. >>> > And if you open just the simple sketch view: >>> > ASketchExampleColors openView >>> > you'll have to start the drawing from the morph menu. >>> > >>> > In a prior version I had some "autoplay" option, but sometimes this >>> throws >>> > a NativeBoost error, if it is the first time it loads the cairo >>> library. >>> > >>> > Maybe I should add the autoplay again. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > 2015-03-06 16:03 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >>> > For me all the samples stay black. But the Athens tiger demo works... >>> > >>> > Is this a driver problem? >>> > >>> > Bye >>> > T. >>> > >>> > Gesendet: Freitag, 06. MÃ¤rz 2015 um 10:14 Uhr >>> > Von: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)web.de> >>> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org>, "Any >>> question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >>> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with >>> Athens. >>> > >>> > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple >>> drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. >>> > -------------- >>> > Gofer new >>> > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; >>> > configuration; >>> > load. >>> > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. >>> > >>> > AthensSketchBrowser open. >>> > >>> > ----------------- >>> > >>> > >>> > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass >>> AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: method. >>> It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). >>> > >>> > Open a player with >>> > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', >>> > or a simple viewer morph with >>> > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph >>> menu) >>> > >>> > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. >>> (Basic examples >>> > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package >>> ASketchExamples). >>> > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, >>> or view and edit the drawing code. >>> > >>> > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) >>> Canvas API is >>> > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good >>> things if >>> > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our >>> possibilities. >>> > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used >>> for, maybe this >>> > helps. >>> > >>> > >>> > nicolai >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 07 Mar 2015, at 00:02, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > 2015-03-06 20:18 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: > >> On 06 Mar 2015, at 18:40, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> very good example and very informative thank you. >> >> Sadly it also shows that even with Athens Pharo is incredible slow. Simple animation spiking a single 3.2 Ghz core to 50% does not look very promising for heavy big size graphic based animations. Which is not a surprise since this was also evident the first time I tried the VGTiger demo. But still , its better than no Athens ;) > > Thatâs because we are converting the rendering into a bitmap that is after drawn for the vmâ¦ a complete inefficient mechanism. > > I heard this multiple times, but I still don't get it. The (cairo) rendering happens on a (in memory) imagesurface. There is no extra allocation > of a bitmap for every drawing on the screen. Drawing the rendering on the screen is a bitblt (copybits) operation, like it is done for every other Form. I will try to explainâ¦ is a problem in several ways: 1) what is not efficient at all is BitBlt plugin, our current way to display things. Want an example? just open a new image, open a browser (or a playground, or any window) and start moving itâ¦. then watch how your cpu starts heating (in my machine, is around 35%, some timesâ¦ just one browser). 2) Nowâ¦ what we do with Athens is: a) create an in-memory surface and draw things there. b) convert that surface into a bitblt compatible format (this is actually just a copy, not much actually) c) display the result into the current world window (another copy) 3) Now imagine all that cycling (stepping)â¦ With OSWindow (SDL2) what we do is: 1) create a SDL2 surface 2) draw on it 3) cycle on (2) > > I have a running experiment for drawing directly in the canvas (using SDL2 library) and the tiger demo drops from eating 70% of cpu to 9% in my machine. > > We can do this without SDL, but of course less platform independent, with cairos win32 , quartz, or xrender (os dependent) surfaces. This is really fast, no need > for an (in memory) image surface. But one problem with this approach is, some morphs need to access the current displays Form data (HandMorph for example). > And this does not work (or not easily) with the OS device surface. > Does this work with cairo and SDL? yes, why not? and yesâ¦ we can have several backends. The advantage on using SDL2 is that you do not need to maintain one different backend for each platform. Of course, it has also drawbacks, as alwaysâ¦ but our manpower is determinant here and we decided to take the âcommon approachââ¦ we will have time to improve later, if we find is necessary (but frankly, I do not think so for the moment) > > One thing that is really slow is painting an image with Athens, because the cairo backend creates a new surface for this image and uses this > image as a pattern paint. The slow part is copying and converting the image data into the surface. > I already proposed an alternative, (it's a bit like cheating), we can use the bitblt to copy and convert the image data into the surface, this again > is much faster. this is something inherent to cairo (and athens as a result)â¦ I suppose game programmers already dealt with this problem. I suggest look there for answers (I didnât look there, nor seen your proposed solution yetâ¦ sorry I will as soon as I find some time). cheers, Esteban > > > Our idea is to move pharo in that direction for Pharo5 so next year we will be a lot better :) > > Esteban > >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com <mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>> wrote: >> This is really good that you are diving into Athens. It deserves it! >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> > On Mar 6, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote: >> > >> > There is a "play" button in the SketchBrowser. >> > And if you open just the simple sketch view: >> > ASketchExampleColors openView >> > you'll have to start the drawing from the morph menu. >> > >> > In a prior version I had some "autoplay" option, but sometimes this throws >> > a NativeBoost error, if it is the first time it loads the cairo library. >> > >> > Maybe I should add the autoplay again. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > 2015-03-06 16:03 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de <mailto:astares@gmx.de>>: >> > For me all the samples stay black. But the Athens tiger demo works... >> > >> > Is this a driver problem? >> > >> > Bye >> > T. >> > >> > Gesendet: Freitag, 06. MÃ¤rz 2015 um 10:14 Uhr >> > Von: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> >> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>>, "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> >> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens. >> > >> > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. >> > -------------- >> > Gofer new >> > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; >> > configuration; >> > load. >> > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. >> > >> > AthensSketchBrowser open. >> > >> > ----------------- >> > >> > >> > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: method. It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). >> > >> > Open a player with >> > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', >> > or a simple viewer morph with >> > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph menu) >> > >> > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. (Basic examples >> > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package ASketchExamples). >> > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, or view and edit the drawing code. >> > >> > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) Canvas API is >> > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good things if >> > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our possibilities. >> > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used for, maybe this >> > helps. >> > >> > >> > nicolai >> > >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu <http://www.bergel.eu/> >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> > >

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] About Spec menu:

by Ben Coman

On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 4:51 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi > > I would like to get your point of view about this code > > ListModel>>menu: aBlock > "<api: #block getter: #menu registration: #whenMenuChanged:>" > "Set the block used to defined the menu" > > menuHolder value: aBlock > > I have problem to see a case where the end programmer would like to get > notify when the menu is changed. > I'm thinking that I will remove the valueHolder holder blocks that create > menu. > > Stef > > I've not a strong opinion, but I also can't think of a case. I will ask whether this will change will be held until after Pharo 4 Release. It doesn't seem a bug fix. cheers -ben

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by Nicolai Hess

2015-03-06 23:58 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > compared to everything else I have used. I dont think I have ever seen > even twice as big as the one used in those examples spike my single core so > much. I am using menu meters ultilie that shows me how much cpu each > application uses and how much each core, together with memory and otther > stats. > > That is not really helpfull. Anything that uses cairo? I would like to make some comparisons and it would help if I can recreate the same animations. (I did some work with cairo and python, but no animation. I used cairo for animations together with GTK, sure this was faster but these applications are only made for the animation, just a simple drawing loop. Pharo of course has much more that happens in between). > But even more so I can eve see the frames in those animations flicker. > Especially that pharo slide logo example, but also all others. > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 12:47 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > >> >> >> 2015-03-06 18:40 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> very good example and very informative thank you. >>> >>> Sadly it also shows that even with Athens Pharo is incredible slow. >>> >> >> Compared to what? >> >> >>> Simple animation spiking a single 3.2 Ghz core to 50% does not look very >>> promising for heavy big size graphic based animations. Which is not a >>> surprise since this was also evident the first time I tried the VGTiger >>> demo. But still , its better than no Athens ;) >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel < >>> alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>> >>>> This is really good that you are diving into Athens. It deserves it! >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Mar 6, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > There is a "play" button in the SketchBrowser. >>>> > And if you open just the simple sketch view: >>>> > ASketchExampleColors openView >>>> > you'll have to start the drawing from the morph menu. >>>> > >>>> > In a prior version I had some "autoplay" option, but sometimes this >>>> throws >>>> > a NativeBoost error, if it is the first time it loads the cairo >>>> library. >>>> > >>>> > Maybe I should add the autoplay again. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 2015-03-06 16:03 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >>>> > For me all the samples stay black. But the Athens tiger demo works... >>>> > >>>> > Is this a driver problem? >>>> > >>>> > Bye >>>> > T. >>>> > >>>> > Gesendet: Freitag, 06. MÃ¤rz 2015 um 10:14 Uhr >>>> > Von: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)web.de> >>>> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org>, "Any >>>> question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >>>> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings >>>> with Athens. >>>> > >>>> > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple >>>> drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. >>>> > -------------- >>>> > Gofer new >>>> > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; >>>> > configuration; >>>> > load. >>>> > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. >>>> > >>>> > AthensSketchBrowser open. >>>> > >>>> > ----------------- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass >>>> AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: method. >>>> It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). >>>> > >>>> > Open a player with >>>> > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', >>>> > or a simple viewer morph with >>>> > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the >>>> morph menu) >>>> > >>>> > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. >>>> (Basic examples >>>> > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package >>>> ASketchExamples). >>>> > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the >>>> drawing, or view and edit the drawing code. >>>> > >>>> > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) >>>> Canvas API is >>>> > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good >>>> things if >>>> > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our >>>> possibilities. >>>> > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is >>>> used for, maybe this >>>> > helps. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > nicolai >>>> > >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

March 6, 2015

Athens: Slow image paint (was: [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by Nicolai Hess

2015-03-07 0:02 GMT+01:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de>: > > One thing that is really slow is painting an image with Athens, because > the cairo backend creates a new surface for this image and uses this > image as a pattern paint. The slow part is copying and converting the > image data into the surface. > I already proposed an alternative, (it's a bit like cheating), we can use > the bitblt to copy and convert the image data into the surface, this again > is much faster. > > For example this code with AthensSceneView (this is not optimized, because I can create the AthensPaint outside of the render block or cache the paint like it is done in ImageMorph>>drawOnAthensCanvas:, but consider the paint has to be created in the render loop) | view form angle | view := AthensSceneView new. form := (ZnEasy getJpeg:' http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Kheops-Pyramid.jpg…' ). angle := 0. view scene: [:canvas | canvas surface clear: Color black. canvas pathTransform translateBy: form extent /2.0. canvas pathTransform rotateByDegrees: angle. canvas pathTransform translateBy: form extent /2.0 negated. canvas setPaint: form. canvas drawShape: (0@0 corner:320@197). angle := angle+10. ]. view openInWindow. The rotation is quite slow. Now change the implementation of AthensCairoSurface class>>#fromForm: fromForm: aForm | form surface | form := aForm unhibernate; asFormOfDepth: 32. surface := self extent: aForm extent. (BitBlt destForm: surface asForm sourceForm: aForm fillColor: nil combinationRule: 24 destOrigin: 0 @ 0 sourceOrigin: 0 @ 0 extent: aForm extent clipRect: (0 @ 0 extent: aForm extent)) copyBits. surface markDirty. ^ surface This is a bit like cheating, the original code computes a new form with premultiplied alpha and copies the data into the surface. This one uses BitBlt to copy the data, but AFAIK this paint combination rule (24) does not create a premultiplied alpha form. But this one is much faster.

March 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by Marcus Denker

> On 06 Mar 2015, at 23:45, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > > > 2015-03-06 17:28 GMT+01:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com <mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>>: > This is really good that you are diving into Athens. It deserves it! > > Thank you, > and yes, we need to give it more priority. I hope Athens is fully working before we start again with another > new thing. > indeed. (and yes: very nice demo + learning tool) Marcus

March 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by Nicolai Hess

2015-03-06 20:18 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > > On 06 Mar 2015, at 18:40, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > very good example and very informative thank you. > > Sadly it also shows that even with Athens Pharo is incredible slow. Simple > animation spiking a single 3.2 Ghz core to 50% does not look very promising > for heavy big size graphic based animations. Which is not a surprise since > this was also evident the first time I tried the VGTiger demo. But still , > its better than no Athens ;) > > > Thatâs because we are converting the rendering into a bitmap that is after > drawn for the vmâ¦ a complete inefficient mechanism. > I heard this multiple times, but I still don't get it. The (cairo) rendering happens on a (in memory) imagesurface. There is no extra allocation of a bitmap for every drawing on the screen. Drawing the rendering on the screen is a bitblt (copybits) operation, like it is done for every other Form. > I have a running experiment for drawing directly in the canvas (using SDL2 > library) and the tiger demo drops from eating 70% of cpu to 9% in my > machine. > We can do this without SDL, but of course less platform independent, with cairos win32 , quartz, or xrender (os dependent) surfaces. This is really fast, no need for an (in memory) image surface. But one problem with this approach is, some morphs need to access the current displays Form data (HandMorph for example). And this does not work (or not easily) with the OS device surface. Does this work with cairo and SDL? One thing that is really slow is painting an image with Athens, because the cairo backend creates a new surface for this image and uses this image as a pattern paint. The slow part is copying and converting the image data into the surface. I already proposed an alternative, (it's a bit like cheating), we can use the bitblt to copy and convert the image data into the surface, this again is much faster. > Our idea is to move pharo in that direction for Pharo5 so next year we > will be a lot better :) > > Esteban > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > wrote: > >> This is really good that you are diving into Athens. It deserves it! >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> > On Mar 6, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >> > >> > There is a "play" button in the SketchBrowser. >> > And if you open just the simple sketch view: >> > ASketchExampleColors openView >> > you'll have to start the drawing from the morph menu. >> > >> > In a prior version I had some "autoplay" option, but sometimes this >> throws >> > a NativeBoost error, if it is the first time it loads the cairo library. >> > >> > Maybe I should add the autoplay again. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > 2015-03-06 16:03 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >> > For me all the samples stay black. But the Athens tiger demo works... >> > >> > Is this a driver problem? >> > >> > Bye >> > T. >> > >> > Gesendet: Freitag, 06. MÃ¤rz 2015 um 10:14 Uhr >> > Von: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)web.de> >> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org>, "Any >> question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with >> Athens. >> > >> > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple >> drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. >> > -------------- >> > Gofer new >> > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; >> > configuration; >> > load. >> > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. >> > >> > AthensSketchBrowser open. >> > >> > ----------------- >> > >> > >> > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass >> AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: method. >> It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). >> > >> > Open a player with >> > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', >> > or a simple viewer morph with >> > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph >> menu) >> > >> > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. >> (Basic examples >> > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package >> ASketchExamples). >> > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, >> or view and edit the drawing code. >> > >> > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) >> Canvas API is >> > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good things >> if >> > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our >> possibilities. >> > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used >> for, maybe this >> > helps. >> > >> > >> > nicolai >> > >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> > >

March 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by kilon alios

compared to everything else I have used. I dont think I have ever seen even twice as big as the one used in those examples spike my single core so much. I am using menu meters ultilie that shows me how much cpu each application uses and how much each core, together with memory and otther stats. But even more so I can eve see the frames in those animations flicker. Especially that pharo slide logo example, but also all others. On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 12:47 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > > 2015-03-06 18:40 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > >> very good example and very informative thank you. >> >> Sadly it also shows that even with Athens Pharo is incredible slow. >> > > Compared to what? > > >> Simple animation spiking a single 3.2 Ghz core to 50% does not look very >> promising for heavy big size graphic based animations. Which is not a >> surprise since this was also evident the first time I tried the VGTiger >> demo. But still , its better than no Athens ;) >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com >> > wrote: >> >>> This is really good that you are diving into Athens. It deserves it! >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> > On Mar 6, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >>> > >>> > There is a "play" button in the SketchBrowser. >>> > And if you open just the simple sketch view: >>> > ASketchExampleColors openView >>> > you'll have to start the drawing from the morph menu. >>> > >>> > In a prior version I had some "autoplay" option, but sometimes this >>> throws >>> > a NativeBoost error, if it is the first time it loads the cairo >>> library. >>> > >>> > Maybe I should add the autoplay again. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > 2015-03-06 16:03 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >>> > For me all the samples stay black. But the Athens tiger demo works... >>> > >>> > Is this a driver problem? >>> > >>> > Bye >>> > T. >>> > >>> > Gesendet: Freitag, 06. MÃ¤rz 2015 um 10:14 Uhr >>> > Von: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)web.de> >>> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org>, "Any >>> question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >>> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with >>> Athens. >>> > >>> > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple >>> drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. >>> > -------------- >>> > Gofer new >>> > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; >>> > configuration; >>> > load. >>> > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. >>> > >>> > AthensSketchBrowser open. >>> > >>> > ----------------- >>> > >>> > >>> > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass >>> AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: method. >>> It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). >>> > >>> > Open a player with >>> > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', >>> > or a simple viewer morph with >>> > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph >>> menu) >>> > >>> > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. >>> (Basic examples >>> > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package >>> ASketchExamples). >>> > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, >>> or view and edit the drawing code. >>> > >>> > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) >>> Canvas API is >>> > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good >>> things if >>> > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our >>> possibilities. >>> > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used >>> for, maybe this >>> > helps. >>> > >>> > >>> > nicolai >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >

March 6, 2015