March 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by Alexandre Bergel

Let's make this happen!! Alexandre > Le 6 mars 2015 Ã 21:38, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > >>> On 07 Mar 2015, at 00:02, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >>> >>> 2015-03-06 20:18 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> On 06 Mar 2015, at 18:40, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> very good example and very informative thank you. >>>> >>>> Sadly it also shows that even with Athens Pharo is incredible slow. Simple animation spiking a single 3.2 Ghz core to 50% does not look very promising for heavy big size graphic based animations. Which is not a surprise since this was also evident the first time I tried the VGTiger demo. But still , its better than no Athens ;) >>> >>> Thatâs because we are converting the rendering into a bitmap that is after drawn for the vmâ¦ a complete inefficient mechanism. >> >> I heard this multiple times, but I still don't get it. The (cairo) rendering happens on a (in memory) imagesurface. There is no extra allocation >> of a bitmap for every drawing on the screen. Drawing the rendering on the screen is a bitblt (copybits) operation, like it is done for every other Form. > > I will try to explainâ¦ is a problem in several ways: > 1) what is not efficient at all is BitBlt plugin, our current way to display things. Want an example? just open a new image, open a browser (or a playground, or any window) and start moving itâ¦. then watch how your cpu starts heating (in my machine, is around 35%, some timesâ¦ just one browser). > 2) Nowâ¦ what we do with Athens is: > a) create an in-memory surface and draw things there. > b) convert that surface into a bitblt compatible format (this is actually just a copy, not much actually) > c) display the result into the current world window (another copy) > 3) Now imagine all that cycling (stepping)â¦ > > With OSWindow (SDL2) what we do is: > 1) create a SDL2 surface > 2) draw on it > 3) cycle on (2) > >> >>> I have a running experiment for drawing directly in the canvas (using SDL2 library) and the tiger demo drops from eating 70% of cpu to 9% in my machine. >> >> We can do this without SDL, but of course less platform independent, with cairos win32 , quartz, or xrender (os dependent) surfaces. This is really fast, no need >> for an (in memory) image surface. But one problem with this approach is, some morphs need to access the current displays Form data (HandMorph for example). >> And this does not work (or not easily) with the OS device surface. >> Does this work with cairo and SDL? > > yes, why not? > and yesâ¦ we can have several backends. The advantage on using SDL2 is that you do not need to maintain one different backend for each platform. Of course, it has also drawbacks, as alwaysâ¦ but our manpower is determinant here and we decided to take the âcommon approachââ¦ we will have time to improve later, if we find is necessary (but frankly, I do not think so for the moment) > >> >> One thing that is really slow is painting an image with Athens, because the cairo backend creates a new surface for this image and uses this >> image as a pattern paint. The slow part is copying and converting the image data into the surface. >> I already proposed an alternative, (it's a bit like cheating), we can use the bitblt to copy and convert the image data into the surface, this again >> is much faster. > > this is something inherent to cairo (and athens as a result)â¦ I suppose game programmers already dealt with this problem. I suggest look there for answers (I didnât look there, nor seen your proposed solution yetâ¦ sorry I will as soon as I find some time). > > cheers, > Esteban > >> >> >>> Our idea is to move pharo in that direction for Pharo5 so next year we will be a lot better :) >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>>>> This is really good that you are diving into Athens. It deserves it! >>>>> >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > On Mar 6, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > There is a "play" button in the SketchBrowser. >>>>> > And if you open just the simple sketch view: >>>>> > ASketchExampleColors openView >>>>> > you'll have to start the drawing from the morph menu. >>>>> > >>>>> > In a prior version I had some "autoplay" option, but sometimes this throws >>>>> > a NativeBoost error, if it is the first time it loads the cairo library. >>>>> > >>>>> > Maybe I should add the autoplay again. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > 2015-03-06 16:03 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: >>>>> > For me all the samples stay black. But the Athens tiger demo works... >>>>> > >>>>> > Is this a driver problem? >>>>> > >>>>> > Bye >>>>> > T. >>>>> > >>>>> > Gesendet: Freitag, 06. MÃ¤rz 2015 um 10:14 Uhr >>>>> > Von: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaihess(a)web.de> >>>>> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org>, "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >>>>> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens. >>>>> > >>>>> > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. >>>>> > -------------- >>>>> > Gofer new >>>>> > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; >>>>> > configuration; >>>>> > load. >>>>> > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. >>>>> > >>>>> > AthensSketchBrowser open. >>>>> > >>>>> > ----------------- >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: method. It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). >>>>> > >>>>> > Open a player with >>>>> > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', >>>>> > or a simple viewer morph with >>>>> > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph menu) >>>>> > >>>>> > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. (Basic examples >>>>> > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package ASketchExamples). >>>>> > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, or view and edit the drawing code. >>>>> > >>>>> > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) Canvas API is >>>>> > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good things if >>>>> > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our possibilities. >>>>> > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used for, maybe this >>>>> > helps. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > nicolai >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by Alexandre Bergel

Stef, you can have a look at what Nicolai did. It will not take time and this is impressive. By the way, we missed you at Saner. Nicolai, I will invite you for a beer at ESUG. Your work is excellent! Alexandre > Le 7 mars 2015 Ã 06:50, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : > > Argh. stop to say that this is excellent now I have to have a look :) > > I'm building a wood terrasse with real screw and all the rest. (I'm resting in between). > Need to go to buy more wood :). > > Stef > > Le 6/3/15 16:09, Alexandre Bergel a Ã©crit : >> Hi Nicolai, >> >> This is an excellent work! >> Looks like to be the best set of example we have. >> >> This will surely benefits Roassal! >> >> Impressive! >> >> Alexandre >> >> >>> On Mar 6, 2015, at 4:14 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >>> >>> The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. >>> >>> -------------- >>> Gofer new >>> smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; >>> configuration; >>> load. >>> ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. >>> >>> AthensSketchBrowser open. >>> >>> ----------------- >>> >>> >>> This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: method. It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). >>> >>> Open a player with >>> ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', >>> or a simple viewer morph with >>> ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph menu) >>> >>> The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. (Basic examples >>> from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package ASketchExamples). >>> You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, or view and edit the drawing code. >>> >>> It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) Canvas API is >>> already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good things if >>> you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our possibilities. >>> >>> There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used for, maybe this >>> helps. >>> >>> nicolai > >

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT is So Cool!!

by stepharo

Doru do you have a scenario that I can replay to show GT, right now I failed to do a sexy presentation and show the point and this is something I want to be able to do. Stef Le 7/3/15 10:59, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > Hi Sean, > > Thanks for the kind words. > > I am happy these tools raise excitement. The funny thing is that it is > hard to convey the interestingness of GT in static pictures. Most > often excitement comes from looks. Yet, take yours for example: there > is absolutely nothing exciting about a couple of lists. But, when you > start to use contextual details during inspection and extend the tools > exactly at the point when the need occurs, the game changes radically. > > Everyone spends these long hours digging through systems. Yet, most > people don't like this at all (if you do not believe me, when was the > last time you heard someone bragging about the last debugging > session?). I think the reason is that until now, the experience was > terrible. Digging through systems has to become a beautiful > experience. We owe this to our future self and to the next generations. > > The current GT is a step (ok, maybe two :)) forward, but there is lots > to do in this direction. And I think this is one area in which Pharo > can thrive and be radically different. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Sean P. DeNigris > <sean(a)clipperadams.com <mailto:sean@clipperadams.com>> wrote: > > Sean P. DeNigris wrote > > the right shows the lines of OCRed text > > And (of course!), the line objects have their own custom view so > you can > dive in and break them down to the words they contain (as determined > separately by Tesseract). > > <http://forum.world.st/file/n4810055/Screenshot_2015-03-06_11.png> > > This feels revolutionary. All the countless hours I've wasted digging > through C/C++ watch lists, Smalltalk inspectors, Ruby stdouts, etc are > flashing before my eyes... what will I do with all the time I > save?! ;) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/GT-is-So-Cool-tp4810054p4810055.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by stepharo

I love sketchInterference :) Stef Le 6/3/15 10:14, Nicolai Hess a Ã©crit : > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple > drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. > > -------------- > Gofer new > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; > configuration; > load. > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. > > AthensSketchBrowser open. > > ----------------- > > > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass > AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: > method. It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). > > Open a player with > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', > or a simple viewer morph with > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph > menu) > > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. > (Basic examples > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package > ASketchExamples). > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, > or view and edit the drawing code. > > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) > Canvas API is > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good things if > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our > possibilities. > > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used > for, maybe this > helps. > > nicolai

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by stepharo

Nicolai May I suggest that you look at Viva (a little framework for doing animation that igor developed). MCHttpRepository location: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars/main' user: '' password: '' Alex uses it in roassal and this is really a cool piece of code. Stef Le 6/3/15 10:14, Nicolai Hess a Ã©crit : > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple > drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. > > -------------- > Gofer new > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; > configuration; > load. > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. > > AthensSketchBrowser open. > > ----------------- > > > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass > AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: > method. It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). > > Open a player with > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', > or a simple viewer morph with > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph > menu) > > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. > (Basic examples > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package > ASketchExamples). > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, > or view and edit the drawing code. > > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) > Canvas API is > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good things if > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our > possibilities. > > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used > for, maybe this > helps. > > nicolai

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by stepharo

Nicolai I ****LOVE**** it :) just browsing the examples is Gorgeous. This is the exact way to show what is inside Pharo! THANKS THANKS THANKS. Stef Le 6/3/15 10:14, Nicolai Hess a Ã©crit : > The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple > drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. > > -------------- > Gofer new > smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; > configuration; > load. > ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. > > AthensSketchBrowser open. > > ----------------- > > > This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass > AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: > method. It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). > > Open a player with > ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', > or a simple viewer morph with > ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph > menu) > > The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. > (Basic examples > from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package > ASketchExamples). > You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, > or view and edit the drawing code. > > It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) > Canvas API is > already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good things if > you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our > possibilities. > > There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used > for, maybe this > helps. > > nicolai

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN AthensSketch] A playground for drawings with Athens.

by stepharo

Argh. stop to say that this is excellent now I have to have a look :) I'm building a wood terrasse with real screw and all the rest. (I'm resting in between). Need to go to buy more wood :). Stef Le 6/3/15 16:09, Alexandre Bergel a Ã©crit : > Hi Nicolai, > > This is an excellent work! > Looks like to be the best set of example we have. > > This will surely benefits Roassal! > > Impressive! > > Alexandre > > >> On Mar 6, 2015, at 4:14 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >> >> The main purpose of this packages is to ease the creation of simple drawings and provide a rich set of examples for Athens drawing API. >> >> -------------- >> Gofer new >> smalltalkhubUser: 'NicolaiHess' project: 'AthensSketch'; >> configuration; >> load. >> ConfigurationOfAthensSketch loadDevelopment. >> >> AthensSketchBrowser open. >> >> ----------------- >> >> >> This is a simple playground for Athens drawings. Just subclass AthensSketch and define your own sketch drawing in the #drawStepOn: method. It provides basic frame based animation (play/pause/stop). >> >> Open a player with >> ASketchExampleColors openPlayer', >> or a simple viewer morph with >> ASketchExampleColors openView (start and stop rendering from the morph menu) >> >> The AthensSketchBrowser lists all defined AthensSketch subclasses. (Basic examples >> from package AthensSketch and some more examples from package ASketchExamples). >> You can step through the list of examples, start and stop the drawing, or view and edit the drawing code. >> >> It is great that we have now a vector based drawing API. The (old) Canvas API is >> already great for pixel based drawings. A rich API and many good things if >> you discover it. And Athens is a addition that can increase our possibilities. >> >> There were some questions about Athens, what it is and what it is used for, maybe this >> helps. >> >> nicolai

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT is So Cool!!

by Alexandre Bergel

+1 Alexandre > Le 7 mars 2015 Ã 04:59, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> a Ã©crit : > > Hi Sean, > > Thanks for the kind words. > > I am happy these tools raise excitement. The funny thing is that it is hard to convey the interestingness of GT in static pictures. Most often excitement comes from looks. Yet, take yours for example: there is absolutely nothing exciting about a couple of lists. But, when you start to use contextual details during inspection and extend the tools exactly at the point when the need occurs, the game changes radically. > > Everyone spends these long hours digging through systems. Yet, most people don't like this at all (if you do not believe me, when was the last time you heard someone bragging about the last debugging session?). I think the reason is that until now, the experience was terrible. Digging through systems has to become a beautiful experience. We owe this to our future self and to the next generations. > > The current GT is a step (ok, maybe two :)) forward, but there is lots to do in this direction. And I think this is one area in which Pharo can thrive and be radically different. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: >> Sean P. DeNigris wrote >> > the right shows the lines of OCRed text >> >> And (of course!), the line objects have their own custom view so you can >> dive in and break them down to the words they contain (as determined >> separately by Tesseract). >> >> <http://forum.world.st/file/n4810055/Screenshot_2015-03-06_11.png> >> >> This feels revolutionary. All the countless hours I've wasted digging >> through C/C++ watch lists, Smalltalk inspectors, Ruby stdouts, etc are >> flashing before my eyes... what will I do with all the time I save?! ;) >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GT-is-So-Cool-tp4810054p4810055.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow"

March 7, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT is So Cool!!

by Tudor Girba

Hi Sean, Thanks for the kind words. I am happy these tools raise excitement. The funny thing is that it is hard to convey the interestingness of GT in static pictures. Most often excitement comes from looks. Yet, take yours for example: there is absolutely nothing exciting about a couple of lists. But, when you start to use contextual details during inspection and extend the tools exactly at the point when the need occurs, the game changes radically. Everyone spends these long hours digging through systems. Yet, most people don't like this at all (if you do not believe me, when was the last time you heard someone bragging about the last debugging session?). I think the reason is that until now, the experience was terrible. Digging through systems has to become a beautiful experience. We owe this to our future self and to the next generations. The current GT is a step (ok, maybe two :)) forward, but there is lots to do in this direction. And I think this is one area in which Pharo can thrive and be radically different. Cheers, Doru On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Sean P. DeNigris wrote > > the right shows the lines of OCRed text > > And (of course!), the line objects have their own custom view so you can > dive in and break them down to the words they contain (as determined > separately by Tesseract). > > <http://forum.world.st/file/n4810055/Screenshot_2015-03-06_11.png> > > This feels revolutionary. All the countless hours I've wasted digging > through C/C++ watch lists, Smalltalk inspectors, Ruby stdouts, etc are > flashing before my eyes... what will I do with all the time I save?! ;) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/GT-is-So-Cool-tp4810054p4810055.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

March 7, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/40540 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

March 7, 2015