February 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] 6a5096: 40477

by stepharo

+1 STef Le 5/2/15 21:34, Max Leske a Ã©crit : > >> On 05 Feb 2015, at 17:46, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com >> <mailto:btc@openInWorld.com>> wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:12 PM, GitHub <noreply(a)github.com >> <mailto:noreply@github.com>> wrote: >> >> >> Log Message: >> ----------- >> 40477 >> >> 14669 Delay refactoring (part 2a) - avoid UI locking up when >> timer event loop is stopped >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14669 >> >> >> >> Thanks Max and Marcus for review and pushing this through. >> >> Next step is Issue 14353 "Delay refactoring (Part 2) - change from >> milliseconds to microseconds" and I started to review rebasing this >> onto the latest build. Now left over from Part 1 >> (https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14261) is lots of conditional >> code wrap of the form... >> >> self newCodeEnabled >> ifTrue: [ >> "my new code" >> ] >> ifFalse: [ >> "the old code" >> ] >> >> However this conditional code wrap clutters things making it harder >> to review changes going forward. So I was wondering it was preferable >> for me to clean that out first, before pushing 14353 for review. For >> Part 1 it served a few purposes... >> >> (1) It was required to make an instantaneous transition to the new >> architecture. However this no longer required since integration of >> Issue 14669 now allows the DelayScheduler to be stopped to change >> code without locking the system. >> >> (2) It provided an emergency fallback to disable the new >> architecture, since this was deep-diving into critical >> infrastructure. However Part 1 was integrated in November, so is that >> long enough for the code to have proved itself? > > I would say so, yes. > >> >> (3) It allowed easy switching back and forth for benchmarking. Maybe >> still useful, but I don't think this is enough on its own to keep the >> newCodeEnabled conditional code wraps. Benchmarking can still be >> done on separate build before and after integration of subsequent >> changes. > > You can recompile on the fly if you really need to use the same image. > >> >> Please advise how you'd like me to proceed. >> cheers -ben >> >> > > Iâd go ahead and remove the conditionals and the old code. The release > of Pharo 4 is planned for April I think, so even if something goes > wrong, thereâs still time to fix it. Removing the clutter will also > make it easier to review your changes; and it will make writing code > for you easier. > > Pharo 4 is still in development (unless I missed something), and > development means unstable environment. People who use Pharo 4 are > aware of that. > > Thatâs my two cents anyway. > > > Keep up the great work! > > Cheers, > Max

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Switching to Pharo from Visualworks

by stepharo

Hi steven > I have a largish project (Siren) that I have developed in ST80/VisualWorks > (since 1984) and ported to Squeak in the past. > > I'm allows looking for a cleaner free ST80 implementation to host the > project. Good. I would love to see Siren in Pharo and I'm ready to help. > Looking at Pharo, it appears to me to be suffering the same bloat > issues as > Squeak. Well if you say that it is that you are just looking at the tip of iceberg. This is not for fun that we are massively working on cleaning dependencies and removing wrong code or rewriting it. In the coming months we will work on putting in place our bootstrapping kernel. There are no Smalltalk able to do that right now. Bootstrapping means a lot in term of quality. But we have some work to get there and we are busy with our real work (publishing papers). BTW: When I come to friend place I do not start to piss on the door, usually I try to understand the tradition of the place and get more information before judging. I will take your remarks with a bit of salt and reply to you as a welcome message. :) > I have a few questions: > > Why don't you all use a 6-paned browser (called the package browser in > Squeak) and control the introduction of top-level meta-categories? Because you have tags and you can filter packages. Now the new browser is not the final answer. You could imagine also that your browser is empty at first and only contain your projects and that you can add incrementally the class and packages of interest. Now we did not have the cycle to experiment with that and hope other people will try. We should do another pass on cleaning simplifying nautilus. > Thetop-level (packages or meta-catgories) should be a list of 20 or fewer > topics such as Magnitudes, Collections, Graphics, Text, Compiler, Tools, > etc. and each of these should have 20 or fewer categories within it It is just a view on the world. Why would I be interested in Magnitudes. I have no idea what it is and I do not care. But we are working on it. We should restart. First we needed to throw away the old Browser code. The default browser is not the end of the road just the current result of our learning. We are working on packages meta data and projects but it takes time. > Iported the package browser to Squeak and reorganized their system > once, but > people continued to add top-level categories to make finding their code > easier. I tried to add the facility to the Pharo browser a year or so ago, > and gave up because I couldn't figure how out how to subclass and > refine the > existing browser framework (and the fact that it seems to be under > construction). We should do a pass on it. Now to me the sith pane is not the right way to me. Did you see that there are tags inside packages. BTW Pharo packages are real objects not string comparisons and it took us time to make this changes. > Why do you still use the (terrible, IMHO) Squeak graphics and UI packages > (Morphic, Balloon, etc)? It appears that new mostly-redundant systems are > still being added to replace these, right? Give me 5 Million $ and you will see. Pharo will not look like it is. We are not Alan Kay to raise money. > Can't someone reimplement the > VisualWorks "Wrapper" UI framework (or something like it) on top of OpenGL > contexts as in VW? It's help up pretty well after over 25 years. (David > Leibs and I toasted it just last December in Australia.) We have Spec which is a Wrapper frmeworks but there are plenty of space for improvements. And we are WORKING on OUR FREE time on making Athens (vector graphics API supporting different back ends) fully rendering the system. In fact nicolai hess is pushing this massive effort. How many engineers were working for free in VisualWorks? How many people were paid? So far we got three engineers working in Pharo for 3 years. > How does a newbie learn what all the new packages are for? Glamour, Ring, > AsmJit, Zinc, etc. are neat names, but if they're not part of higher-level > packages it makes navigating the system (and even figuring out what > they're > for) pretty difficult. We know. We started to add meta data to package and based on that we want to display the package description. But days here are only 24 hours. > Are there any benchmarks of the current VMs compared to VisualWorks? The > last time I used Squeak (a few years ago) it was still pretty slow. I > have a > real-time event scheduler in Siren that I use to schedule MIDI, so I > can run > "drum roll" tests to see how the VM performs. check Cog VM. Now there is Spur a new memory manager coming along and it will speed things. Read the blog of clement bera or eliot miranda. Then clement is working on Sista an image level inliner and optimizer and it will bring really new perspective. > How does Pharo handle user primitives or foreign function calls? Is anyone > maintaining the old SWIG implementation of Smalltalk? I used it quite > a bit > to have Smalltalk code create and manage C++ signal processing graphs > in the > past. SWIG is still going strong, and it's embarrassing that there's no > mention at all of Smalltalk on the SWIG pages. Ronie Saldago did a SWIG package. > > I'm not trying to start a fight, and I really did like the initial Pharo > mission statement of making a tighter, cleaner open-source ST80 > implementation. We are doing it. This is just that you do not see it. Each commit produces before integration a 3mb image shrunk automatically. > Is that dream still what motivates the community? More than ever. We have a now a dependency analyser browser developed by a student we regularly addressed worng dependency. If just takes time and concentration. > If yes, where are the minimalists hiding? We have 11k images fully bootstrap (doing just 2+4 ). Now modular does not means that it has to be minimal. We got a 60 k image that only does beep without a compiler... so not really useful. We are working on it systematically. Now we should - not confuse ui concerns and the system - code quality is not something that can be displayed - when we use a class from a large package we import all the classes of that packages so merging packages is the wrong approach. - modularity without maps does not work and we should keep maps of working package sets coherent when a change happen. Stef > Stephen Pope > HeavenEverywhere Media and FASTLabInc.com <http://FASTLabInc.com> > Santa Barbara, CA USA > > -- > > Stephen Travis Pope Santa Barbara, California, USA > http://HeavenEverywhere.com <http://HeavenEverywhere.com/> >

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Monospaced font

by Nicolai Hess

2015-02-03 16:01 GMT+01:00 KasperOsterbye <kasper(a)itu.dk>: > And no, I do not want to restart the discussion of the (lack of) qualities > regarding such fonts. > > It is just not clear to me how to get hold of a font. > It seems like at the one hand it is all 'Bitmap deja vu sans regular'. > I think it is because, the default fonts were StrikeFonts only, but Bitmap deja vu is the only StrikeFont in the image nowadays. > > In the settings browser I can pick all kinds of fonts, but it is unclear > how > I get a reference to them as I do not want to install the font as default > or > code fonts, but just need to apply the font to a few words in a Text > object. > StringMorph new font:(LogicalFont familyName: 'Courier New' pointSize: 22); openInHand or for a TextMorph | font1 font2 t1 t2 tMorph| tMorph := TextMorph new. font1 := (TextFontReference toFont: (LogicalFont familyName: 'Source Code Pro' pointSize: 22)). font2 := (TextFontReference toFont: (LogicalFont familyName: 'Source Code Pro' pointSize: 11)). t1 := 'this is font1' asText addAttribute: font1. t2 := ' and this is font2' asText addAttribute: font2. tMorph contents: (t1,t2). tMorph openInWorld. > > If I try to ask for StrikeFont for say 'Courier' I get 'Bitmap deja vu sans > regular'. > > Where is the magic hidden? > > A perhaps related question is if one can apply subscript and superscript to > the regular Text attributes - I have not been able to find that either. > I am not sure, but I thnk, it is not possible. nicolai > > Best, Kasper > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Monospaced-font-tp4803396.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] 6a5096: 40477

by Marcus Denker

> On 05 Feb 2015, at 21:34, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On 05 Feb 2015, at 17:46, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com <mailto:btc@openInWorld.com>> wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:12 PM, GitHub <noreply(a)github.com <mailto:noreply@github.com>> wrote: >> >> Log Message: >> ----------- >> 40477 >> >> 14669 Delay refactoring (part 2a) - avoid UI locking up when timer event loop is stopped >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14669 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14669> >> >> >> >> Thanks Max and Marcus for review and pushing this through. >> >> Next step is Issue 14353 "Delay refactoring (Part 2) - change from milliseconds to microseconds" and I started to review rebasing this onto the latest build. Now left over from Part 1 (https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14261 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14261>) is lots of conditional code wrap of the form... >> >> self newCodeEnabled >> ifTrue: [ >> "my new code" >> ] >> ifFalse: [ >> "the old code" >> ] >> >> However this conditional code wrap clutters things making it harder to review changes going forward. So I was wondering it was preferable for me to clean that out first, before pushing 14353 for review. For Part 1 it served a few purposes... >> >> (1) It was required to make an instantaneous transition to the new architecture. However this no longer required since integration of Issue 14669 now allows the DelayScheduler to be stopped to change code without locking the system. >> >> (2) It provided an emergency fallback to disable the new architecture, since this was deep-diving into critical infrastructure. However Part 1 was integrated in November, so is that long enough for the code to have proved itself? > > I would say so, yes. > >> >> (3) It allowed easy switching back and forth for benchmarking. Maybe still useful, but I don't think this is enough on its own to keep the newCodeEnabled conditional code wraps. Benchmarking can still be done on separate build before and after integration of subsequent changes. > > You can recompile on the fly if you really need to use the same image. > >> >> Please advise how you'd like me to proceed. >> cheers -ben >> >> > > Iâd go ahead and remove the conditionals and the old code. The release of Pharo 4 is planned for April I think, so even if something goes wrong, thereâs still time to fix it. Removing the clutter will also make it easier to review your changes; and it will make writing code for you easier. > Yes! If you can choose between âcleaning upâ and âcontinue to workâ, choose cleaning up. It will be the right choice in most casesâ¦ Marcus

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Switching to Pharo from Visualworks

by stepharo

Le 5/2/15 11:57, Markus Fritsche a Ã©crit : > On Thu, 5 Feb 2015 11:45:53 +0100 > Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> - Glamour : https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/DeepIntoPharo/lastSuc… >> - Zinc : https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/EnterprisePharo/tree/master/Zinc… > Thanks, but that was meant more general. > > If I fire up the Pharo Launcher and go to the configuration browser, I see 25 offerings on the first page, of which roughly 50% (12) give me an idea what they're about. The other 13 - I really have no clue and need to google them ;-) if the project configurationOf defines a description the flybyhelp shows its description when you load it. Now this is only until recently that ConfigurationOf were kept in the image so we will revisit the description to make sure that they are defined. > > If I'm having a problem with the browser implementation, AltBrowser might be a thing to look at. If "SuperGemMiley" (which might also implement an alternative browser) is something I should look at, I will only find out if I google "<name> pharo" and write down whatever comes up on github, smalltalkhub, jenkins... :-) We are **working** on a package catalog web site. > > Best regards, > Markus >

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Parsing float difference between 2.0 and 3.0, was it on purpose?

by Marcus Denker

> On 06 Feb 2015, at 09:02, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > Le 5/2/15 10:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >>> On 05 Feb 2015, at 10:36, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: >>> >>> I personally would prefer to be able to use exponents. No sure what the big picture is. >>> cheers -ben >> Of course exponents are still supported ;-) >> >> The discussion is about the + sign for positive exponents. I am not sure, but I think that traditional Smalltalk did not support this, but it was added to support common practice in other languages. Now it is apparently gone again, probably not on purpose. > > I do not know I think that marcus removed it to avoid to have two parsers in the image. > Maybe this was a mistakeâ¦ Marcus

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Parsing float difference between 2.0 and 3.0, was it on purpose?

by stepharo

Le 5/2/15 10:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >> On 05 Feb 2015, at 10:36, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: >> >> I personally would prefer to be able to use exponents. No sure what the big picture is. >> cheers -ben > Of course exponents are still supported ;-) > > The discussion is about the + sign for positive exponents. I am not sure, but I think that traditional Smalltalk did not support this, but it was added to support common practice in other languages. Now it is apparently gone again, probably not on purpose. I do not know I think that marcus removed it to avoid to have two parsers in the image. > >> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> In Pharo 2.0, the expression "Number readFrom: '2.5850009999999998e+04' " would answer 25850.01 , but in Pharo 3.0 it answers: 2.5850009999999997 which is a kind of WTF to me. >> >> Checking the differences it seems in Pharo 2.0 ExtendedNumberParser (used from Number >> readFrom: ) implemented: >> >> allowPlusSign >> ^true >> >> However, in Pharo 3.0 it seems subclasses of NumberParser have been merged directly in NumberParser class (and so Number >> readFrom: uses this class now). >> >> But.. (and this is the difference), NumberParser implements: >> >> allowPlusSign >> ^false >> >> So I wonder...was this on purpose or a side effect? Why would we want to reject using + as part of the exponential notion?? >> >> So in my case now I must do an override to: >> >> NumberParser >> allowPlusSignInExponent >> ^ true >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> > >

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Slots] Invisible Slots

by Marcus Denker

> On 05 Feb 2015, at 21:51, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I also can't wait to have a slot to automatically add instance variables in the additional method state for CompiledMethod subclasses. This shouldn't be tricky for you any more, should it ? I'm bored of not being able to add instance variables to compiledMethod subclasses :-). It would be just working *if* CompiledMethodLayout would allow slotsâ¦ slots are right now in PointerLayout and subclasses. (this came due to the virtual vs. indexed slots not being really explicly modelled in the first prototype) I will change that: all classes should be able to have *virtual* slots (and add them without having to migrate the instances). > > Having automatically inst vars in a dictionary is interesting it could allow to have more inst vars than the maximum limit. Yes, just think about MorphExtensionâ¦ Marcus

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] development workflow for GTools (GToolkitCore)

by Ben Coman

Would it be possible/desirable to have a system such that: * bug fixes for external packages can be still be directly applied and tested in the Pharo-integrated branch * the CI workflow generates an updated ConfigurationOf{external package} that it pushes back to the external package repository? Its a great idea to separate out Configurations to devolve responsibility for sub-packages, but it adds some friction to bug fixing. It "seems" we will have a single branch combining both feature development and bug-fixing, but it would be nicer to have two branches. --------------- On another track, I wonder if it would be useful if a package which is part of a Configuration is made dirty, the Configuration itself could also be marked dirty? cheers -ben On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:36 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > 14850 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14850> Integrate GTools > #development > "From this version onwards the development version should be integrated." > > Is this a good idea? Does the #development version always include *all* > the latest > changes, because after Andrei opened > 14866 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14866> Integrate GTools > (which got integrated in 40475) > I uploaded some changes for issue > 14608 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14608> > ClassTest>>#testClassRespectsPolymorphismWithTrait failing due to Spotter > methods > I set the status to "Fix Review needed", > > but my changes are integrated in 40475 too! > > I am not satisfied with the way external packages are handled. > 1. if there is not one slice/changeset per issue, it is even less likely > someone will > review the changes. > 2. you don't know who works when on a issue. They are solved in a bulk. > 3. a new configuration might not only includes bugfixes but new features > as well. > 4. often we have unbound globals / undeclared references or other test > failures. > > Can we use the build server for those external projects (like > GToolkitCore, Athens, TxText), > and that if a project makes a new configuration, it uses the same > issue validator for loading and testing that configuration? > > > nicolai > > >

Feb. 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Howto create a new configuration?

by Juraj Kubelka

Well, then I cannot see packages that are not included in the version 2.7. Can you mention some? I will try to make a new version. Juraj > 5. 2. 2015 v 20:07, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de>: > > > 2015-02-05 23:06 GMT+01:00 Juraj Kubelka <juraj.kubelka(a)gmail.com <mailto:juraj.kubelka@gmail.com>>: > I have downloaded the latest Pharo 4 and it looks like Esteban Lorenzano did the job. There is a new 2.7 version. > > No, the version 2.7 is not new, I have some changes that came after that version. > > > Cheers, > Juraj > >> 5. 2. 2015 v 18:28, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>>: >> >> 2015-02-05 21:56 GMT+01:00 Juraj Kubelka <juraj.kubelka(a)gmail.com <mailto:juraj.kubelka@gmail.com>>: >> I am just guessing: try to click on âdevelopmentâ item on the left side. >> >> >> -> "Information: Nothing to save" >> >> Already tried :) >> >> >> Cheers, >> Juraj >> >> > 5. 2. 2015 v 17:13, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>>: >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > I fixed some issues for Athens and upload the changes to the >> > repository. Now, I want to use Versionner to create a new configuration. >> > What I tried: >> > >> > Open a fresh image >> > Open the Athens repository and load the new changesets >> > -> There are some merge conflicts. Why? There shouldn't be >> > any conflicts. How do you do this? >> > >> > After merging the changes I open Versionner. >> > I thought I have to make a new Release but the button "Release Version" is >> > disabled. >> > What did I miss? >> > >> > >> > >> > nicolai >> >> > >

Feb. 6, 2015