December 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Damien Cassou

Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> writes: > Would it make sense to close down the Pharo 5 line and start with the > Spur thing as Pharo 6 as this would make it more easily distinguishable? > Especially since Pharo 5 is very stable, already really usuable and > with Spur we do not follow our mantra of small steps. > > This would really avoid confusion afterwards within and outside of the > community. this makes a lot of sense in my opinion and I vote +1. But releasing a new Pharo currently is a lot of work, both technical and non-technical (announces, changelog, ...). -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Dimitris Chloupis

Pharo 5 your mission should you choose to accept it is to integrate with Spur this image will self destruct in 5 4 3 2 1 JAVA ! On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:15 PM Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > Excellent work, thanks a lot !! > > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 07:24, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > We will start migration to Spur today. > > To complete it, we will require some time, specially to adapt the CI and > check everything is ok. > > > > Spur will allow us to do a big step forward in Pharo development, in the > concrete you will see it immediately for this: > > - We have noticed a speed increment of 100% in tiny benchmarks (and > according to Eliot, it will be at least 35% in general on the system). > > - No more GC stops (noticeable when running large systems) > > - We will be able to scale our systems up to 2G memory consumption > without loosing performance. > > > > But, this will have some drawbacks in the first times: > > > > 1) VM will not be compatible between versions anymore: Pharo 5.0 will > have a Pharo Spur VM associated (and they are not compatible). > > - There WILL NOT be a "non-spur" version of Pharo 5.0. Once > completed the transitions, this will be the only one. > > > > 2) NativeBoost-FFI implementation has been replaced with a new > implementation who relies in ThreadedFFIPlugin and IA32Plugin. While we > worked a lot to do this transition as painless as possible and we achieve a > good level of backward compatibility (most uses of #nbCall: should work out > of the box), there are some problems we cannot solve: > > - there are some stuff not possible to compatibilise, notably: > > - Structures now need to inherit from FFIExternalStructure > > - Arrays now are now shadowed > > - in general is a bit slower (impossible to compete with ASM) but > in general is not perceptible. > > - THERE WILL BE BUGS AND NON-IMPLEMENTED FEATURES: Current > implementation is validated with Athens and even Roassal was working, but > of course that does not covers all cases. > > 2.1) ASMJIT will be removed from system and put in a separated packages. > > NOTE: There will be a blog post explaining FFI-NB architecture during > the week. > > > > 3) There are more or less 70 new failing tests, some of them important > than we need to fix as soon as possible. Please, please, please, help us > with them :) > > > > 4) In general we foresee the system will became unstable some weeks, > before it gets back to normal. Please be patient. > > > > 5) You will need to adapt your Pharo 5.0 related apps and CI processes > (to take care about new VM). Some programs will stop work at all (for > example, I think Pharo-launcher will need to be adapted). > > > > > > > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University > of Chile > > >

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Johan Fabry

Excellent work, thanks a lot !! > On Dec 14, 2015, at 07:24, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > We will start migration to Spur today. > To complete it, we will require some time, specially to adapt the CI and check everything is ok. > > Spur will allow us to do a big step forward in Pharo development, in the concrete you will see it immediately for this: > - We have noticed a speed increment of 100% in tiny benchmarks (and according to Eliot, it will be at least 35% in general on the system). > - No more GC stops (noticeable when running large systems) > - We will be able to scale our systems up to 2G memory consumption without loosing performance. > > But, this will have some drawbacks in the first times: > > 1) VM will not be compatible between versions anymore: Pharo 5.0 will have a Pharo Spur VM associated (and they are not compatible). > - There WILL NOT be a "non-spur" version of Pharo 5.0. Once completed the transitions, this will be the only one. > > 2) NativeBoost-FFI implementation has been replaced with a new implementation who relies in ThreadedFFIPlugin and IA32Plugin. While we worked a lot to do this transition as painless as possible and we achieve a good level of backward compatibility (most uses of #nbCall: should work out of the box), there are some problems we cannot solve: > - there are some stuff not possible to compatibilise, notably: > - Structures now need to inherit from FFIExternalStructure > - Arrays now are now shadowed > - in general is a bit slower (impossible to compete with ASM) but in general is not perceptible. > - THERE WILL BE BUGS AND NON-IMPLEMENTED FEATURES: Current implementation is validated with Athens and even Roassal was working, but of course that does not covers all cases. > 2.1) ASMJIT will be removed from system and put in a separated packages. > NOTE: There will be a blog post explaining FFI-NB architecture during the week. > > 3) There are more or less 70 new failing tests, some of them important than we need to fix as soon as possible. Please, please, please, help us with them :) > > 4) In general we foresee the system will became unstable some weeks, before it gets back to normal. Please be patient. > > 5) You will need to adapt your Pharo 5.0 related apps and CI processes (to take care about new VM). Some programs will stop work at all (for example, I think Pharo-launcher will need to be adapted). > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Torsten Bergmann

Exciting times indeed! Many thanks to all who work on this/prepare this. But we should also be aware: 1. many people already use Pharo 5 as it is very usable and stable I think this deserves a better naming/closing before the integration than just a simple update number. Would it make sense to close down the Pharo 5 line and start with the Spur thing as Pharo 6 as this would make it more easily distinguishable? Especially since Pharo 5 is very stable, already really usuable and with Spur we do not follow our mantra of small steps. This would really avoid confusion afterwards within and outside of the community. 2. the VM change might affect PharoLauncher images as well. It would be good to still have a PharoLauncher that can launch old non-spur (up to now) and new spur-based images Thanks T.

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] New web tutorial

by Norbert Hartl

Looks good but I don't understand it :) Norbert > Am 13.12.2015 um 22:13 schrieb stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > Hi guys > > with Olivier Auverlot we did several attempts (over the year) and we are happy to release a first draft of a web tutorial > around Pharo. We ask the user to build a simple blog engine. > > It goes over > - Mongo > - Seaside > - Magritte > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/TinyBlogTutorial/5/artifact/book… > > Soon Rest/Deployment/Garage?/NeoJSON/XML > > If you want to participate (translate it to english) or improve it you are welcome. > > We hope that it will serve as a basis to a lot of Seaside applications. > > This tutorial will be used in the lecture I'm giving next weeks in Togo and will be edited as a lulu book. > > Stef and Olivier. > > > >

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2015-12-14 10:14 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Thank you Eliot & Esteban for making this happen! +1 I look forward to see this in action! :)

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Tudor Girba

Thank you Eliot & Esteban for making this happen! Exciting times :) Cheers, Doru > On Dec 14, 2015, at 11:24 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > We will start migration to Spur today. > To complete it, we will require some time, specially to adapt the CI and check everything is ok. > > Spur will allow us to do a big step forward in Pharo development, in the concrete you will see it immediately for this: > - We have noticed a speed increment of 100% in tiny benchmarks (and according to Eliot, it will be at least 35% in general on the system). > - No more GC stops (noticeable when running large systems) > - We will be able to scale our systems up to 2G memory consumption without loosing performance. > > But, this will have some drawbacks in the first times: > > 1) VM will not be compatible between versions anymore: Pharo 5.0 will have a Pharo Spur VM associated (and they are not compatible). > - There WILL NOT be a "non-spur" version of Pharo 5.0. Once completed the transitions, this will be the only one. > > 2) NativeBoost-FFI implementation has been replaced with a new implementation who relies in ThreadedFFIPlugin and IA32Plugin. While we worked a lot to do this transition as painless as possible and we achieve a good level of backward compatibility (most uses of #nbCall: should work out of the box), there are some problems we cannot solve: > - there are some stuff not possible to compatibilise, notably: > - Structures now need to inherit from FFIExternalStructure > - Arrays now are now shadowed > - in general is a bit slower (impossible to compete with ASM) but in general is not perceptible. > - THERE WILL BE BUGS AND NON-IMPLEMENTED FEATURES: Current implementation is validated with Athens and even Roassal was working, but of course that does not covers all cases. > 2.1) ASMJIT will be removed from system and put in a separated packages. > NOTE: There will be a blog post explaining FFI-NB architecture during the week. > > 3) There are more or less 70 new failing tests, some of them important than we need to fix as soon as possible. Please, please, please, help us with them :) > > 4) In general we foresee the system will became unstable some weeks, before it gets back to normal. Please be patient. > > 5) You will need to adapt your Pharo 5.0 related apps and CI processes (to take care about new VM). Some programs will stop work at all (for example, I think Pharo-launcher will need to be adapted). > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Presenting is storytelling."

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 14 Dec 2015, at 12:07, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 30% - 100% wow thats quite a speed boost, well done guys! > And 2GB images are more than welcomed , especially for me that I have to deal with 3d data. > > Does that ThreadedFFIPlugin means we can now use C libraries that use threading ? not yetâ¦ but that is the path :) > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:01 PM Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com <mailto:guillermopolito@gmail.com>> wrote: > Thanks! > > > On 14 dic 2015, at 11:32 a.m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > >> On 14 Dec 2015, at 11:24, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> We will start migration to Spur today. > >> To complete it, we will require some time, specially to adapt the CI and check everything is ok. > >> > >> Spur will allow us to do a big step forward in Pharo development, in the concrete you will see it immediately for this: > >> - We have noticed a speed increment of 100% in tiny benchmarks (and according to Eliot, it will be at least 35% in general on the system). > >> - No more GC stops (noticeable when running large systems) > >> - We will be able to scale our systems up to 2G memory consumption without loosing performance. > >> > >> But, this will have some drawbacks in the first times: > >> > >> 1) VM will not be compatible between versions anymore: Pharo 5.0 will have a Pharo Spur VM associated (and they are not compatible). > >> - There WILL NOT be a "non-spur" version of Pharo 5.0. Once completed the transitions, this will be the only one. > >> > >> 2) NativeBoost-FFI implementation has been replaced with a new implementation who relies in ThreadedFFIPlugin and IA32Plugin. While we worked a lot to do this transition as painless as possible and we achieve a good level of backward compatibility (most uses of #nbCall: should work out of the box), there are some problems we cannot solve: > >> - there are some stuff not possible to compatibilise, notably: > >> - Structures now need to inherit from FFIExternalStructure > >> - Arrays now are now shadowed > >> - in general is a bit slower (impossible to compete with ASM) but in general is not perceptible. > >> - THERE WILL BE BUGS AND NON-IMPLEMENTED FEATURES: Current implementation is validated with Athens and even Roassal was working, but of course that does not covers all cases. > >> 2.1) ASMJIT will be removed from system and put in a separated packages. > >> NOTE: There will be a blog post explaining FFI-NB architecture during the week. > >> > >> 3) There are more or less 70 new failing tests, some of them important than we need to fix as soon as possible. Please, please, please, help us with them :) > >> > >> 4) In general we foresee the system will became unstable some weeks, before it gets back to normal. Please be patient. > >> > >> 5) You will need to adapt your Pharo 5.0 related apps and CI processes (to take care about new VM). Some programs will stop work at all (for example, I think Pharo-launcher will need to be adapted). > >> > > > > ah, I forget it! > > > > 6) Some changes to the VM accumulated during the time of transition (some months now). So, some changes introduced there will not be present in new VM. I will merge this changes in the next weeks. > > > > cheers! > > Esteban > >

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Dimitris Chloupis

30% - 100% wow thats quite a speed boost, well done guys! And 2GB images are more than welcomed , especially for me that I have to deal with 3d data. Does that ThreadedFFIPlugin means we can now use C libraries that use threading ? On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:01 PM Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks! > > > On 14 dic 2015, at 11:32 a.m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > >> On 14 Dec 2015, at 11:24, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> We will start migration to Spur today. > >> To complete it, we will require some time, specially to adapt the CI > and check everything is ok. > >> > >> Spur will allow us to do a big step forward in Pharo development, in > the concrete you will see it immediately for this: > >> - We have noticed a speed increment of 100% in tiny benchmarks (and > according to Eliot, it will be at least 35% in general on the system). > >> - No more GC stops (noticeable when running large systems) > >> - We will be able to scale our systems up to 2G memory consumption > without loosing performance. > >> > >> But, this will have some drawbacks in the first times: > >> > >> 1) VM will not be compatible between versions anymore: Pharo 5.0 will > have a Pharo Spur VM associated (and they are not compatible). > >> - There WILL NOT be a "non-spur" version of Pharo 5.0. Once > completed the transitions, this will be the only one. > >> > >> 2) NativeBoost-FFI implementation has been replaced with a new > implementation who relies in ThreadedFFIPlugin and IA32Plugin. While we > worked a lot to do this transition as painless as possible and we achieve a > good level of backward compatibility (most uses of #nbCall: should work out > of the box), there are some problems we cannot solve: > >> - there are some stuff not possible to compatibilise, notably: > >> - Structures now need to inherit from FFIExternalStructure > >> - Arrays now are now shadowed > >> - in general is a bit slower (impossible to compete with ASM) but > in general is not perceptible. > >> - THERE WILL BE BUGS AND NON-IMPLEMENTED FEATURES: Current > implementation is validated with Athens and even Roassal was working, but > of course that does not covers all cases. > >> 2.1) ASMJIT will be removed from system and put in a separated packages. > >> NOTE: There will be a blog post explaining FFI-NB architecture during > the week. > >> > >> 3) There are more or less 70 new failing tests, some of them important > than we need to fix as soon as possible. Please, please, please, help us > with them :) > >> > >> 4) In general we foresee the system will became unstable some weeks, > before it gets back to normal. Please be patient. > >> > >> 5) You will need to adapt your Pharo 5.0 related apps and CI processes > (to take care about new VM). Some programs will stop work at all (for > example, I think Pharo-launcher will need to be adapted). > >> > > > > ah, I forget it! > > > > 6) Some changes to the VM accumulated during the time of transition > (some months now). So, some changes introduced there will not be present in > new VM. I will merge this changes in the next weeks. > > > > cheers! > > Esteban > > >

Dec. 14, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [IMPORTANT] Starting migration to Spur VM

by Guillermo Polito

Thanks! > On 14 dic 2015, at 11:32 a.m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On 14 Dec 2015, at 11:24, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> We will start migration to Spur today. >> To complete it, we will require some time, specially to adapt the CI and check everything is ok. >> >> Spur will allow us to do a big step forward in Pharo development, in the concrete you will see it immediately for this: >> - We have noticed a speed increment of 100% in tiny benchmarks (and according to Eliot, it will be at least 35% in general on the system). >> - No more GC stops (noticeable when running large systems) >> - We will be able to scale our systems up to 2G memory consumption without loosing performance. >> >> But, this will have some drawbacks in the first times: >> >> 1) VM will not be compatible between versions anymore: Pharo 5.0 will have a Pharo Spur VM associated (and they are not compatible). >> - There WILL NOT be a "non-spur" version of Pharo 5.0. Once completed the transitions, this will be the only one. >> >> 2) NativeBoost-FFI implementation has been replaced with a new implementation who relies in ThreadedFFIPlugin and IA32Plugin. While we worked a lot to do this transition as painless as possible and we achieve a good level of backward compatibility (most uses of #nbCall: should work out of the box), there are some problems we cannot solve: >> - there are some stuff not possible to compatibilise, notably: >> - Structures now need to inherit from FFIExternalStructure >> - Arrays now are now shadowed >> - in general is a bit slower (impossible to compete with ASM) but in general is not perceptible. >> - THERE WILL BE BUGS AND NON-IMPLEMENTED FEATURES: Current implementation is validated with Athens and even Roassal was working, but of course that does not covers all cases. >> 2.1) ASMJIT will be removed from system and put in a separated packages. >> NOTE: There will be a blog post explaining FFI-NB architecture during the week. >> >> 3) There are more or less 70 new failing tests, some of them important than we need to fix as soon as possible. Please, please, please, help us with them :) >> >> 4) In general we foresee the system will became unstable some weeks, before it gets back to normal. Please be patient. >> >> 5) You will need to adapt your Pharo 5.0 related apps and CI processes (to take care about new VM). Some programs will stop work at all (for example, I think Pharo-launcher will need to be adapted). >> > > ah, I forget it! > > 6) Some changes to the VM accumulated during the time of transition (some months now). So, some changes introduced there will not be present in new VM. I will merge this changes in the next weeks. > > cheers! > Esteban

Dec. 14, 2015