December 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] OT: Convince me github is a wise choice

by Eliot Miranda

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com > wrote: > 2015-12-17 17:08 GMT-03:00 Nicolas Anquetil <nicolas.anquetil(a)inria.fr>: > > > > > > On 17/12/2015 20:46, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: > >>> > >>> Ah, that's interesting. So my concern is whether github is a safe > >>> long-term bet. Specifically what is there to prevent some third party > from > >>> buying github, or of github going public and the board taking the > decision, > >>> or github on its own, deciding to charge for hosting, keeping the data > >>> hostage to extract payment? What safeguards are in place to prevent > this? > >>> I'm not interested in "this will never happen" arguments. I'm > interested > >>> in hard data please. > >> > >> GitHub explicitly reserves the right to shut down without notice, > >> however considering they have ~10M users and ~30M repositories > >> (ranging from small one-person projects, over programming languages, > >> to governmental programs), do you really think it is a real scenario? > > > > well, googlecode closed didn't it? > > and it was not a small affair either > > Google code was really small compared with Github. > > GitHub is monumental. It's to source management what Gmail is to email. > > > you never know what might happen in the future (trust a divorced man) > > You get half the code? (the part that needs refactoring probably) > ROTFL _,,,^..^,,,_ thanks, Eliot

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] OT: Convince me github is a wise choice

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2015-12-17 17:08 GMT-03:00 Nicolas Anquetil <nicolas.anquetil(a)inria.fr>: > > > On 17/12/2015 20:46, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: >>> >>> Ah, that's interesting. So my concern is whether github is a safe >>> long-term bet. Specifically what is there to prevent some third party from >>> buying github, or of github going public and the board taking the decision, >>> or github on its own, deciding to charge for hosting, keeping the data >>> hostage to extract payment? What safeguards are in place to prevent this? >>> I'm not interested in "this will never happen" arguments. I'm interested >>> in hard data please. >> >> GitHub explicitly reserves the right to shut down without notice, >> however considering they have ~10M users and ~30M repositories >> (ranging from small one-person projects, over programming languages, >> to governmental programs), do you really think it is a real scenario? > > well, googlecode closed didn't it? > and it was not a small affair either Google code was really small compared with Github. GitHub is monumental. It's to source management what Gmail is to email. > you never know what might happen in the future (trust a divorced man) You get half the code? (the part that needs refactoring probably)

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] OT: Convince me github is a wise choice

by Nicolas Anquetil

On 17/12/2015 20:46, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: >> Ah, that's interesting. So my concern is whether github is a safe long-term bet. Specifically what is there to prevent some third party from buying github, or of github going public and the board taking the decision, or github on its own, deciding to charge for hosting, keeping the data hostage to extract payment? What safeguards are in place to prevent this? >> I'm not interested in "this will never happen" arguments. I'm interested in hard data please. > GitHub explicitly reserves the right to shut down without notice, > however considering they have ~10M users and ~30M repositories > (ranging from small one-person projects, over programming languages, > to governmental programs), do you really think it is a real scenario? well, googlecode closed didn't it? and it was not a small affair either you never know what might happen in the future (trust a divorced man) > Thousands and thousands of extra services directly depend on github; > e.g. package managers like npm or bower pull directly from GH. If they > would shut down, half of the internet would follow. > Now I am not saying that this can't happen, all I am saying is that > worrying that they would shut down from day-to-day without any notice having a notice is only a small part of the problem not that I am against Git, but I an understand the fear nicolas > is baseless, so if anything you should evaluate whether such scenario > is something that you should worry about (compared to your house > burning down or being flooded destroying your computer, home server > and all on-site backup drives, which is something that happens > regularly to people). > > But let's assume that evil corporate aliens send a meteor shower that > hits all github datacenters. > > What are the primary offerings of GitHub? > 1) online git repository > 2) bug tracker > 3) online collaboration > 4) wiki/github pages --- those are just another git repositories, so > it's same as 1) > 5) organizations > 6) other cowbells (graphs, contribution charts, etc. however those are > just aggregations) > > Git is decentralized. So even if you have some central hub, such as > github, or bitbucket, or gitlab, you are not writing your code > directly on the website so at least one of the contributors will have > the latest code. > So if you are unprepared and you are hit by this scenario you don't > lose your code. > > However as someone already pointed out, you can lose your bugs (would > that be great? :)) and comments. If you are worried about it, you can > always make a plan and back it up regularly > https://github.com/joeyh/github-backup > > The only alternative is that you host it yourself (obviously you can't > just use someone else because the issues will apply again). > And now you have a billion of new problems: > 1) you need a home server, or _paid_ virtual server, which costs money > (either in the form of VS, or buying new components and paying for > electricity bills) > 2) you need to maintain it, which costs you time and energy (and time = money) > 3) it will be slower, have worse uptime, and break (because you are > not 500 people, do not have a reliable datacenters and things always > go wrong) > 4) it will not scale (it may be sufficient for you, or internal > projects inside walls of your company; but if you want to open it to > the world (because it is open source) then you have yet another world > of trouble) > 5) you still need to do off-site backups > > So all in all you will trade security of decisions of a malicious > board and exchange it for other, much more realistic problems. > And if such board would do that intentionally, it would definitely end > up in court. > Just because they proclaim in their TOS that they are free of any > responsibility doesn't mean they actually are; especially if they > intentionally mean harm. (And keeping your data hostage is very likely > criminal.) > > To summarize: > 1) use github > 2) make off-site backups > 3) be happy > > Peter > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo > <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> You can have your own Git infraestructure with something like GitLab >> Community Edition (Free) or Enterprise (Paid). >> <https://about.gitlab.com/features> >> >> The "good thing" about Github is that it gives visibility to what you >> do, which for Pharo/Squeak could be a big thing. If all the code in >> SmalltalkHub was moved to Github, the popularity of Smalltalk would go >> to the top 20. >> >> Regards! >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >> 2015-12-17 14:37 GMT-03:00 Holger Freyther <holger(a)freyther.de>: >>>> On 17 Dec 2015, at 18:29, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Ben, Hi All, >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> Ah, that's interesting. So my concern is whether github is a safe long-term bet. Specifically what is there to prevent some third party from buying github, or of github going public and the board taking the decision, or github on its own, deciding to charge for hosting, keeping the data hostage to extract payment? What safeguards are in place to prevent this? I'm not interested in "this will never happen" arguments. I'm interested in hard data please. >>> >>> 1.) You will lose bug reports (if you decide to use bugtracker) >>> 2.) You will lose comments/discussion on pull requests >>> 3.) You might lose the wiki content >>> 4.) Unless you and nobody else in this community has the git tree you lose the history of >>> the project. >>> >>> >>> 1.) You might decide not to use their bug tracker? >>> 2.) You might decide not to use the pull request workflow or risk losing some context that >>> is outside the commit message, change. >>> 3.) Don't use it then. >>> 4.) One can mitigate by either automatically synchronising the repo to another place or >>> by having the primary somewhere else (which makes 2nd more hard than it should be). >>> >>> => long term. Keep a backup of the repo (and with git you always have that anyway) and >>> if they kick everyone out, push it to another server. >>> >>> I hope this helps. >>> >>> holger >>> >>> >>> >>> PS: For my C level GSM stuff we run our own git infrastructure on git.osmocom.org and >>> github is mirroring some of the repos to github.com/osmocom. This way people can discover >>> our sources more easily, we discover 'forks' but right now we don't use the pull request system >>> at all. -- Nicolas Anquetil RMod team -- Inria Lille

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] OT: Convince me github is a wise choice

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> Ah, that's interesting. So my concern is whether github is a safe long-term bet. Specifically what is there to prevent some third party from buying github, or of github going public and the board taking the decision, or github on its own, deciding to charge for hosting, keeping the data hostage to extract payment? What safeguards are in place to prevent this? > I'm not interested in "this will never happen" arguments. I'm interested in hard data please. GitHub explicitly reserves the right to shut down without notice, however considering they have ~10M users and ~30M repositories (ranging from small one-person projects, over programming languages, to governmental programs), do you really think it is a real scenario? Thousands and thousands of extra services directly depend on github; e.g. package managers like npm or bower pull directly from GH. If they would shut down, half of the internet would follow. Now I am not saying that this can't happen, all I am saying is that worrying that they would shut down from day-to-day without any notice is baseless, so if anything you should evaluate whether such scenario is something that you should worry about (compared to your house burning down or being flooded destroying your computer, home server and all on-site backup drives, which is something that happens regularly to people). But let's assume that evil corporate aliens send a meteor shower that hits all github datacenters. What are the primary offerings of GitHub? 1) online git repository 2) bug tracker 3) online collaboration 4) wiki/github pages --- those are just another git repositories, so it's same as 1) 5) organizations 6) other cowbells (graphs, contribution charts, etc. however those are just aggregations) Git is decentralized. So even if you have some central hub, such as github, or bitbucket, or gitlab, you are not writing your code directly on the website so at least one of the contributors will have the latest code. So if you are unprepared and you are hit by this scenario you don't lose your code. However as someone already pointed out, you can lose your bugs (would that be great? :)) and comments. If you are worried about it, you can always make a plan and back it up regularly https://github.com/joeyh/github-backup The only alternative is that you host it yourself (obviously you can't just use someone else because the issues will apply again). And now you have a billion of new problems: 1) you need a home server, or _paid_ virtual server, which costs money (either in the form of VS, or buying new components and paying for electricity bills) 2) you need to maintain it, which costs you time and energy (and time = money) 3) it will be slower, have worse uptime, and break (because you are not 500 people, do not have a reliable datacenters and things always go wrong) 4) it will not scale (it may be sufficient for you, or internal projects inside walls of your company; but if you want to open it to the world (because it is open source) then you have yet another world of trouble) 5) you still need to do off-site backups So all in all you will trade security of decisions of a malicious board and exchange it for other, much more realistic problems. And if such board would do that intentionally, it would definitely end up in court. Just because they proclaim in their TOS that they are free of any responsibility doesn't mean they actually are; especially if they intentionally mean harm. (And keeping your data hostage is very likely criminal.) To summarize: 1) use github 2) make off-site backups 3) be happy Peter On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > You can have your own Git infraestructure with something like GitLab > Community Edition (Free) or Enterprise (Paid). > <https://about.gitlab.com/features> > > The "good thing" about Github is that it gives visibility to what you > do, which for Pharo/Squeak could be a big thing. If all the code in > SmalltalkHub was moved to Github, the popularity of Smalltalk would go > to the top 20. > > Regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2015-12-17 14:37 GMT-03:00 Holger Freyther <holger(a)freyther.de>: >> >>> On 17 Dec 2015, at 18:29, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Ben, Hi All, >>> >>> >> >> >>> Ah, that's interesting. So my concern is whether github is a safe long-term bet. Specifically what is there to prevent some third party from buying github, or of github going public and the board taking the decision, or github on its own, deciding to charge for hosting, keeping the data hostage to extract payment? What safeguards are in place to prevent this? I'm not interested in "this will never happen" arguments. I'm interested in hard data please. >> >> >> 1.) You will lose bug reports (if you decide to use bugtracker) >> 2.) You will lose comments/discussion on pull requests >> 3.) You might lose the wiki content >> 4.) Unless you and nobody else in this community has the git tree you lose the history of >> the project. >> >> >> 1.) You might decide not to use their bug tracker? >> 2.) You might decide not to use the pull request workflow or risk losing some context that >> is outside the commit message, change. >> 3.) Don't use it then. >> 4.) One can mitigate by either automatically synchronising the repo to another place or >> by having the primary somewhere else (which makes 2nd more hard than it should be). >> >> => long term. Keep a backup of the repo (and with git you always have that anyway) and >> if they kick everyone out, push it to another server. >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> holger >> >> >> >> PS: For my C level GSM stuff we run our own git infrastructure on git.osmocom.org and >> github is mirroring some of the repos to github.com/osmocom. This way people can discover >> our sources more easily, we discover 'forks' but right now we don't use the pull request system >> at all. >

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] VM Maker: VMMaker.oscog-eem.1609.mcz

by Eliot Miranda

Hi All, the real Cog 64-bit Spur x64 VM just evaluated 3+4 correctly on Mac OS X: â Early days yet. This is a debug VM. The optimised VM does not yet display the prompt. But we can be confident that a 64-bit JIT for Spur will be available some time in January. â On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:42 AM, <commits(a)source.squeak.org> wrote: > > Eliot Miranda uploaded a new version of VMMaker to project VM Maker: > http://source.squeak.org/VMMaker/VMMaker.oscog-eem.1609.mcz > > ==================== Summary ==================== > > Name: VMMaker.oscog-eem.1609 > Author: eem > Time: 17 December 2015, 10:41:49.192 am > UUID: 771cdc25-5d27-4818-8943-2ba5c0e31791 > Ancestors: VMMaker.oscog-eem.1608 > > Cogit: Fix the (arguably bogus) register save/restore code for safe > trampolines, including the ceScheduleScavenge call. > > =============== Diff against VMMaker.oscog-eem.1608 =============== > > Item was added: > + ----- Method: CogARMCompiler>>genSaveRegForCCall (in category 'abi') > ----- > + genSaveRegForCCall > + "Save the general purpose registers for a call into the C run-time > from a trampoline." > + "Save none, because the ARM ABI only defines callee saved > registers, no caller-saved regs." > + "cogit gen: STMFD operand: 16r7F"! > > Item was removed: > - ----- Method: CogARMCompiler>>genSaveRegisters (in category 'abi') ----- > - genSaveRegisters > - "Save the general purpose registers for a trampoline call." > - "Save none, because the ARM ABI only defines callee saved > registers, no caller-saved regs." > - "cogit gen: STMFD operand: 16r7F"! > > Item was added: > + ----- Method: CogARMCompiler>>genSaveRegsForCCall (in category 'abi') > ----- > + genSaveRegsForCCall > + "Save the general purpose registers for a trampoline call." > + "Save none, because the ARM ABI only defines callee saved > registers, no caller-saved regs." > + "cogit gen: STMFD operand: 16r7F" > + self flag: 'this will change with Sista when we hope to be able to > allocate arbitrary registers'! > > Item was removed: > - ----- Method: CogAbstractInstruction>>genSaveRegisters (in category > 'abi') ----- > - genSaveRegisters > - "Save the general purpose registers for a trampoline call." > - self subclassResponsibility! > > Item was changed: > ----- Method: CogIA32Compiler>>genRestoreRegsExcept: (in category 'abi') > ----- > genRestoreRegsExcept: abstractReg > | realReg | > realReg := self concreteRegister: abstractReg. > self assert: (EDI > EAX and: [EDI - EAX + 1 = 6]). > EAX to: EDI do: > [:reg| > + (reg between: ESP and: EBP) ifFalse: > + [realReg = reg > + ifTrue: [cogit AddCq: 4 R: ESP] > + ifFalse: [cogit PopR: reg]]]. > - realReg = reg ifTrue: [cogit AddCq: 4 R: ESP] ifFalse: > [cogit PopR: reg]]. > ^0! > > Item was removed: > - ----- Method: CogIA32Compiler>>genSaveRegisters (in category 'abi') ----- > - genSaveRegisters > - "Save the general purpose registers for a trampoline call." > - > - self assert: (EDI > EAX and: [EDI - EAX + 1 = 8]). > - EDI to: EAX by: -1 do: > - [:reg| > - (reg between: ESP and: EBP) ifFalse: > - [cogit PushR: reg]]. > - ^0! > > Item was added: > + ----- Method: CogIA32Compiler>>genSaveRegsForCCall (in category 'abi') > ----- > + genSaveRegsForCCall > + "Save the general purpose registers for a call into the C run-time > from a trampoline." > + > + self assert: (EDI > EAX and: [EDI - EAX + 1 = 8]). > + EDI to: EAX by: -1 do: > + [:reg| > + (reg between: ESP and: EBP) ifFalse: > + [cogit PushR: reg]]. > + ^0! > > Item was removed: > - ----- Method: CogMIPSELCompiler>>genSaveRegisters (in category 'abi') > ----- > - genSaveRegisters > - "This method is poorly named. Is this for a Smalltalk -> C call or > C -> Smalltalk call? > - If the former we don't need to do anything because all of the > abstract registers are > - allocated to C preserved registers." > - self flag: #bogus.! > > Item was added: > + ----- Method: CogMIPSELCompiler>>genSaveRegsForCCall (in category 'abi') > ----- > + genSaveRegsForCCall > + "Save the general purpose registers for a call into the C run-time > from a trampoline. > + We don't need to do anything because all of the abstract > registers are > + allocated to C preserved registers." > + self flag: 'this will change with Sista when we hope to be able to > allocate arbitrary registers'! > > Item was changed: > ----- Method: CogX64Compiler>>genRestoreRegs (in category 'abi') ----- > genRestoreRegs > "Restore the general purpose registers for a trampoline call. > c.f. genSaveRegisters" > + RAX to: R15 do: > + [:reg| > + (reg between: RSP and: RBP) ifFalse: > + [cogit PopR: reg]]. > - cogit > - PopR: RAX; > - PopR: RBX; > - PopR: RCX; > - PopR: RDX; > - PopR: RSI; > - PopR: RDI; > - PopR: R8; > - PopR: R9; > - PopR: R10; > - PopR: R11; > - PopR: R12; > - PopR: R13; > - PopR: R14; > - PopR: R15. > ^0! > > Item was changed: > ----- Method: CogX64Compiler>>genRestoreRegsExcept: (in category 'abi') > ----- > genRestoreRegsExcept: abstractReg > | realReg | > realReg := self concreteRegister: abstractReg. > self assert: (R15 > RAX and: [R15 - RAX + 1 = 16]). > RAX to: R15 do: > [:reg| > + (reg between: RSP and: RBP) ifFalse: > + [realReg = reg > + ifTrue: [cogit AddCq: 8 R: RSP] > + ifFalse: [cogit PopR: reg]]]. > - realReg = reg ifTrue: [cogit AddCq: 4 R: RSP] ifFalse: > [cogit PopR: reg]]. > ^0! > > Item was removed: > - ----- Method: CogX64Compiler>>genSaveRegisters (in category 'abi') ----- > - genSaveRegisters > - "Save the general purpose registers for a trampoline call." > - > - self assert: (R15 > RAX and: [R15 - RAX + 1 = 16]). > - R15 to: RAX by: -1 do: [:reg| cogit PushR: reg]. > - ^0! > > Item was added: > + ----- Method: CogX64Compiler>>genSaveRegsForCCall (in category 'abi') > ----- > + genSaveRegsForCCall > + "Save the general purpose registers for a trampoline call." > + > + self assert: (R15 > RAX and: [R15 - RAX + 1 = 16]). > + R15 to: RAX by: -1 do: > + [:reg| > + (reg between: RSP and: RBP) ifFalse: > + [cogit PushR: reg]]. > + ^0! > > Item was changed: > ----- Method: > Cogit>>compileCallFor:numArgs:arg:arg:arg:arg:resultReg:saveRegs: (in > category 'initialization') ----- > compileCallFor: aRoutine numArgs: numArgs arg: regOrConst0 arg: > regOrConst1 arg: regOrConst2 arg: regOrConst3 resultReg: resultRegOrNone > saveRegs: saveRegs > "Generate a call to aRoutine with up to 4 arguments. If > resultRegOrNone is not > NoReg assign the C result to resultRegOrNone. If saveRegs, save > all registers. > Hack: a negative arg value indicates an abstract register, a > non-negative value > indicates a constant." > <var: #aRoutine type: #'void *'> > <inline: false> > cStackAlignment > objectMemory wordSize ifTrue: > [backEnd > genAlignCStackSavingRegisters: saveRegs > numArgs: numArgs > wordAlignment: cStackAlignment / objectMemory > wordSize]. > saveRegs ifTrue: > + [backEnd genSaveRegsForCCall]. > - [backEnd genSaveRegisters]. > backEnd genMarshallNArgs: numArgs arg: regOrConst0 arg: > regOrConst1 arg: regOrConst2 arg: regOrConst3. > self CallFullRT: (self cCode: [aRoutine asUnsignedInteger] > inSmalltalk: [self > simulatedTrampolineFor: aRoutine]). > resultRegOrNone ~= NoReg ifTrue: > [backEnd genWriteCResultIntoReg: resultRegOrNone]. > saveRegs ifTrue: > [numArgs > 0 ifTrue: > [backEnd genRemoveNArgsFromStack: numArgs]. > resultRegOrNone ~= NoReg > ifTrue: [backEnd genRestoreRegsExcept: > resultRegOrNone] > ifFalse: [backEnd genRestoreRegs]]! > > -- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Are Critical Tools Becoming Too Brittle?

by stepharo

We should integrate the Mirror package of guillermo. But he was busy and sick. Stef Le 16/12/15 23:03, Esteban A. Maringolo a Ã©crit : > Yeap, they are in the VM, I used them with the fileout you sent me. > I guess Tudor was referring to the spur *image* and not the VM. > > The issue is already opened: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17170/Context-missing-primitives > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2015-12-16 18:55 GMT-03:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: >> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> I am waiting for the Spur image because it should already have the >>> primitives and I will get back to the ProtoObject issue. Could you open an >>> issue in the meantime? >> >> The mirror primitives should be in the old VM as well. >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>>> On Dec 16, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Doru, >>>> >>>> Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject? >>>> >>>> Esteban A. Maringolo >>>> >>>> >>>> 2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, please help us isolate that case. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt >>>>>> inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ? >>>>>> >>>>>> There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ... >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ? >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had >>>>>>> to force >>>>>>> quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is >>>>>>> encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some >>>>>>> reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not >>>>>>> being >>>>>>> able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty >>>>>>> crippling >>>>>>> situation... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> View this message in context: >>>>>>> http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html >>>>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>>>>>> Nabble.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> www.feenk.com >>>>> >>>>> "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "Every thing should have the right to be different." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> _,,,^..^,,,_ >> best, Eliot >

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Fuel materialization on spur

by Robert Withers

Phil, I just posted a new diagram that starts to show the 8th and 9th layers. The specs for events, producers and consumers, bound to named type-structure definitions ("types"), are stored at the meta and injects apps (7) into cloud execution container (8) and into type decoders in layer 5. Hopefully this helps you see what I was saying. https://github.com/RabbitPhoneWarrenNetwork/Porcini/wiki/SecureSession robert On 12/16/2015 05:22 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Can you make a more detailed vision (with a picture) about this? > > As I have a cluster running and am paid to do some stuff with all you > list, I can use some time exploring those avenues. > > Phil > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Robert Withers > <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Excuse me: > > With interfaces I think groovy. > With object serialization I think avro. > With header encoding I think ASN1DER with dynamic extension, we need > variable encoding of statistical objects. > With packages I think gradle. > > this would be powerful, > robert > > On 12/16/2015 01:00 PM, Robert Withers wrote: > > I'd like to add that this is a real challenge to existing players in > BigData, all of who offer solutions in this exact space. Whoever > controls it's specification, controls it's cloud market. > > My back of the envelope proposal (my apologies for my > abrasiveness with > this approach) is such: > > We develop a dynamic cloud meta & control solution: replicated, > eventually consistent and so on. We define the serialization, > interfaces > and package identification to this meta as open-source standards. > > With interfaces I think Avro. > > With serialization I think ASN1DER encoding, plus non-fixed dynamic > structure extension. > > With package identification I think Gradle. Do we have a groovy > compiler? > > I thought I would round out my thinking as I believe this to be an > important opportunity. Given that the new internet is going to be > governed by always running, maximally interactive execution > sites, it > will naturally move to Smalltalk, so I do not think there is > anything > for anyone to be concerned about. > > Patience and not reacting emotionally to misinformation in the > marketplace will show true colors. Business is warfare. We have the > advantage. > > peace, > robert > > > On 12/16/2015 12:38 PM, Robert Withers wrote: > > Allow me to speak a little on my ideas of a distributed meta > layer and > control layer in cloud deployments with Squeak/Pharo, > hopefully in > bounds. > > A distributed system must have an metadata repsoitory > describing the > traffic and activity. If you look at deployment, code that > works with > a type and version of data must be present. With packaging > and dynamic > loading, chunks of code registered to a data type/version in > the meta > demand loads a achunk to do directed work in a particular > deployed > image. BigData event flows and data analysis like to get > replicated > and relocated, in realtime. Supporting this in the meta > definitional > layer and the 1/2 control layer starts to do dynamic, > late-binding in > the network. This is the advantage Squeak/Pharo image-based > environments bring to the business table. > > Thank you and apologies, > robert > > On 12/16/2015 09:57 AM, H. Hirzel wrote: > > Is there a Pharo implementation? > https://avro.apache.org/docs/1.2.0/ > > On 12/16/15, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com > <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Please consider Avro. > > robert > > On 12/16/2015 08:58 AM, H. Hirzel wrote: > > If you want to move data to Java then you > probably go for JSON or a > particuar XML format. > > On 12/16/15, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com > <mailto:hannes.hirzel@gmail.com>> wrote: > > No, it is a Smalltalk format. > > On 12/16/15, Denis Kudriashov > <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com > <mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>> wrote: > > 2015-12-16 14:41 GMT+01:00 H. Hirzel > <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com > <mailto:hannes.hirzel@gmail.com>>: > > It probably should be noted here as > well that > > http://pharo.gemtalksystems.com/book/PharoTools/SIXX/ > > Just to know does java implementation > exists? > > -- > . .. .. ^,^ best, robert > > > > > > -- > . .. .. ^,^ best, robert > > -- . .. .. ^,^ best, robert

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Bugs I found during the lectures in Yaounde

by stepharo

Thanks nicolai As you did not see even if I have a strong 5* wifi signal I do not have connexion ;( I faced also some bugs moving classes between changeset in the changesorter I really think that we should do something when a student orverwrite a class with an object Dice := OrderedCollection new where Dice was a class. Spotter startup is mega super annoying when you have a non working connexion. The first time it launch itself we get this boring settings that ask for submitting code and this is mega mega annoying because it was hanging my image. Stef > > > 2015-12-16 22:04 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>: > > Hi > > today and yesterday I'm giving 6 hours of pharo lecture to 100 > students and we have fun. > Here are the bugs I found (I'm working on the latest 50) > > - we cannot bring menu in certain part of the debugger (may > inspector) > > > 16887 > <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16887/Debugger-context-menu-broken> > Debugger context menu broken > > - class definitions are not logged in changes > > this should be fixed already > 17219 > <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17219/Class-Definitions-not-in-Changes-ag…> > Class Definitions not in Changes... again again > > - when we write self shoulnt: [Dice new faces: 20 ] raise: Error > the debugger does not show the create menu for the method > faces: > > > did this ever worked if the error is catched? > > > It would be good to record this. > I have a reeeeeeallllly slow internet connection and only from > time to time. > > > Stef > > > > > >

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] TCP server for Pharo?

by Robert Withers

I wish i could say this can work in JacobsLadder, but it didn't work for me a few days back. Perhaps somebody else can get it to be make to work. I am sure it is possible and probable. There is much potential, thank God. best, robert On 12/17/2015 12:53 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > Hi Denis, > > There is > > http://www.squeaksource.com/SocketExamples.html > http://www.squeaksource.com/Net.html > > Last one seems a lot of interesting work. > > or look for #remoteTestServerTCP which was in OldSocket or Socket some > time ago: > > remoteTestServerTCP > "See remoteTestClientTCP for instructions on running this method." > "OldSocket remoteTestServerTCP" > > | socket client buffer n | > Transcript show: 'initializing network ... '. > Socket initializeNetwork. > Transcript show:'ok';cr. > socket _ OldSocket newTCP. > socket > listenOn: 54321 > backlogSize: 5 > interface: (NetNameResolver addressFromString: '127.0.0.1'). > "or: 0.0.0.0" > Transcript show: 'server endpoint created -- run client test in > other image'; cr. > buffer _ String new: 4000. > socket waitForConnectionUntil: self standardDeadline. > client _ socket accept. > [client isConnected] whileTrue: [ > client dataAvailable ifTrue: > [n _ client receiveDataInto: buffer. > client sendData: buffer count: n]]. > client closeAndDestroy. > socket closeAndDestroy. > Transcript cr; show: 'server endpoint destroyed'; cr. > ^socket > > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > > > 2015-12-10 8:07 GMT-03:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com > <mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>>: > > Hi. > > I need simple TCP server which process incoming connection in > separate processes. > I see Zinc ZnServer subclasses implement something like that. But > I'm not sure that it is good idea to reuse it. Zinc server has http > related methods which I'm not need. > > What you think? > > (I don't want to implement another one incoming connections loop) > > -- . .. .. ^,^ best, robert

Dec. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] TCP server for Pharo?

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi Denis, There is http://www.squeaksource.com/SocketExamples.html http://www.squeaksource.com/Net.html Last one seems a lot of interesting work. or look for #remoteTestServerTCP which was in OldSocket or Socket some time ago: remoteTestServerTCP "See remoteTestClientTCP for instructions on running this method." "OldSocket remoteTestServerTCP" | socket client buffer n | Transcript show: 'initializing network ... '. Socket initializeNetwork. Transcript show:'ok';cr. socket _ OldSocket newTCP. socket listenOn: 54321 backlogSize: 5 interface: (NetNameResolver addressFromString: '127.0.0.1'). "or: 0.0.0.0" Transcript show: 'server endpoint created -- run client test in other image'; cr. buffer _ String new: 4000. socket waitForConnectionUntil: self standardDeadline. client _ socket accept. [client isConnected] whileTrue: [ client dataAvailable ifTrue: [n _ client receiveDataInto: buffer. client sendData: buffer count: n]]. client closeAndDestroy. socket closeAndDestroy. Transcript cr; show: 'server endpoint destroyed'; cr. ^socket Cheers, HernÃ¡n 2015-12-10 8:07 GMT-03:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > Hi. > > I need simple TCP server which process incoming connection in separate > processes. > I see Zinc ZnServer subclasses implement something like that. But I'm not > sure that it is good idea to reuse it. Zinc server has http related methods > which I'm not need. > > What you think? > > (I don't want to implement another one incoming connections loop) >

Dec. 17, 2015