November 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

please name your thread [was: something else]

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I think we are not talking about the same email. In any case, please name you thread appropriately. And, we should remember that acting is the only thing that will push us further. Cheers, Tudor > On Dec 1, 2015, at 12:18 AM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Tudor, the email that you replied to, saying the discussion should be > closed down, was specifically about the impacts on our community and > how to leverage them. > > Welcoming is, as welcoming does. > > On 30 November 2015 at 11:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Increasing the community is certainly important, and we welcome any action that anyone would want to undertake in this direction. >> >> However, talking about the future of Java does not fall in this category. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >>> On Nov 30, 2015, at 4:44 AM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> We also need to concentrate on building our community. >>> >>> We build a better platform faster if we have more people. >>> >>> We build a more valuable platform if we have a wider range of valuable >>> use cases to target. >>> >>> Unless and until we hit a critical mass of people joining our >>> community, we *need* to spend some of our focus on community-building. >>> >>> Part of great is being able to build things to sufficient completeness >>> *and* keep them in working order over the long haul. This is easier >>> with more contributors. >>> >>> On 27 November 2015 at 21:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> Please stop this thread on this mailing list. We need to focus on building a great platform. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 10:05 PM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> First of all - is this true? Where can we read about it? >>>>> >>>>> I cannot find anything about this at >>>>> https://www.oracle.com/search/press >>>>> >>>>> ======================================= >>>>> >>>>> If Oracle did make this statement, then what people have said so far >>>>> is true. BUT... >>>>> >>>>> Java got about 40% of its initial momentum from IBM dumping VisualAge >>>>> and putting all their resources into Java. >>>>> >>>>> Oracle are targetting this move at IBM more than anyone else. >>>>> >>>>> IBM will start to think about how to migrate from Java - as Oracle are >>>>> telling them they will have to. (It's OUR bat and its OUR ball, and >>>>> no-one else can play with it. Not even the Java Community). And >>>>> IBM's coders do not pay for Java, Eclipse users do not pay for Java. I >>>>> expect the licence-fee income for JREs is small. >>>>> >>>>> Oracle are doing one of two things - announcing that Java is for sale >>>>> to device providers - phones (Google is the obvious buyer) or the >>>>> impending Internet of Things (which was what Java was designed for >>>>> originally) or announcing that no-one making an internet of things >>>>> offering should consider Java. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, things live on and on in a kind of zombie state. So yes, things >>>>> live on as long as their ecosystem does. And they gently wither and >>>>> their ecosystem withers is a long slow drawn out spiral. Which is why >>>>> we still have Cobol. >>>>> >>>>> People and organisations tend to move from one technology to another >>>>> in an incremental fashion. Swapping a little bit here, and a little >>>>> bit there. >>>>> >>>>> The new target platforms are ones which >>>>> 1) look like they have longevity, and >>>>> 2) have a migration pathway that provides incremental steps. >>>>> >>>>> Offering a compelling advantage is good - but only if the steps 1) >>>>> and 2) are catered to. >>>>> >>>>> IBM VisualAge Smalltalk is still robust, commercially available >>>>> software, and VisualStudio and Gemstone continue to represent >>>>> Smalltalk out to the big world of corporate development. >>>>> >>>>> So that's a start. >>>>> >>>>> Say only 5% of the Java world moves away from Java each year, as a >>>>> result of this announcement. >>>>> >>>>> We *should* wish to take advantage of this announcement. >>>>> >>>>> After all, think what difference having even 0.01% of the world's Java >>>>> coders moving to Smalltalk would make. How could we help that >>>>> happen? >>>>> >>>>> Think what it would be like to have thought-leaders like Kent Beck and >>>>> Ward Cunningham back in the Smalltalk fold. How could we help that >>>>> happen? >>>>> >>>>> Think what it would be like to get back all the universities who moved >>>>> from teaching OO concepts using Smalltalk into teaching them via Java. >>>>> We now know almost all the ones using Smalltalk as a teaching language >>>>> by name. Does anyone know even how many universities teach OO via >>>>> Java? What would it be like if 5% of those universities moved to >>>>> Smalltalk each year. How could we help that happen? >>>>> >>>>> Next - do we have any big brained thinkers who can see specific ways >>>>> we can improve interoperation between Java facilities and libraries >>>>> and the Smalltalks? For the next 12 months, we should work on Java >>>>> integration, rather than C++ integration. We should identify the >>>>> three best things for us to do in this regard, and make them polished >>>>> and compelling. Who is in a position to help that happen? >>>>> >>>>> The final way we can take advantage help the maximum number of people >>>>> find their way to us is to present a united community front to the >>>>> outside world. In the same way I am both a European and a Scot, we >>>>> need to be Smalltalkers *and*members of our individual >>>>> Smalltalk-platform communities. >>>>> >>>>> How can we help make that happen? >>>>> >>>>> This is not a silver bullet. It's going to cause a long-term trend in >>>>> events, not a sudden abrupt change. But it will have a real, if >>>>> gradual effect. (assuming that >>>>> >>>>> Equally, it is not something we should ignore. It is something we >>>>> should make use of. We need to put effort into raising our profile >>>>> over the next 6 months. >>>>> >>>>> On 25 November 2015 at 19:51, Casimiro - GMAIL >>>>> <casimiro.barreto(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Em 25-11-2015 17:21, Nicolas Anquetil escreveu: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25/11/2015 19:55, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Much truth in what you say. However, what Oracle choose to invest its money, >>>>>> time, personnel resource into Java does affect its present and future. It >>>>>> has a great affect. But it isn't the whole story. Java has enough momentum >>>>>> in what already exists in the language and vm and what has been release >>>>>> under its license, for businesses to keep going for some time with only what >>>>>> currently exists. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cobol is still alive (and well) after > 50 years. >>>>>> You can expect Java programmers to find jobs for many years yet to come >>>>>> :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> nicolas >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Nicolas Anquetil >>>>>> RMod team -- Inria Lille >>>>>> >>>>>> 1st: Java is extremely profitable. Each android phone, each android TV, each >>>>>> android embedded system pays copyrights to Oracle. >>>>>> 2nd: Much of current cloud infrastructure depends on java. >>>>>> 3rd: Java is already obsolete, like Frotran, Cobol, C, C++. It will continue >>>>>> to be used by same reasons these languages are used. >>>>>> >>>>>> IMHO, discussing java is not profitable. Better to discuss things to be than >>>>>> talk about things that already happened. >>>>>> >>>>>> casimiro >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The information contained in this message is confidential and intended to >>>>>> the recipients specified in the headers. If you received this message by >>>>>> error, notify the sender immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copy >>>>>> or alteration of this message are strictly forbidden and subjected to civil >>>>>> and criminal sanctions. >>>>>> >>>>>> == >>>>>> >>>>>> This email may be signed using PGP key ID: 0x4134A417 >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Presenting is storytelling." >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "One cannot do more than one can do."

Nov. 30, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Java Future

by EuanM

Tudor, the email that you replied to, saying the discussion should be closed down, was specifically about the impacts on our community and how to leverage them. Welcoming is, as welcoming does. On 30 November 2015 at 11:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Increasing the community is certainly important, and we welcome any action that anyone would want to undertake in this direction. > > However, talking about the future of Java does not fall in this category. > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> On Nov 30, 2015, at 4:44 AM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> We also need to concentrate on building our community. >> >> We build a better platform faster if we have more people. >> >> We build a more valuable platform if we have a wider range of valuable >> use cases to target. >> >> Unless and until we hit a critical mass of people joining our >> community, we *need* to spend some of our focus on community-building. >> >> Part of great is being able to build things to sufficient completeness >> *and* keep them in working order over the long haul. This is easier >> with more contributors. >> >> On 27 November 2015 at 21:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> Please stop this thread on this mailing list. We need to focus on building a great platform. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 10:05 PM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> First of all - is this true? Where can we read about it? >>>> >>>> I cannot find anything about this at >>>> https://www.oracle.com/search/press >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> If Oracle did make this statement, then what people have said so far >>>> is true. BUT... >>>> >>>> Java got about 40% of its initial momentum from IBM dumping VisualAge >>>> and putting all their resources into Java. >>>> >>>> Oracle are targetting this move at IBM more than anyone else. >>>> >>>> IBM will start to think about how to migrate from Java - as Oracle are >>>> telling them they will have to. (It's OUR bat and its OUR ball, and >>>> no-one else can play with it. Not even the Java Community). And >>>> IBM's coders do not pay for Java, Eclipse users do not pay for Java. I >>>> expect the licence-fee income for JREs is small. >>>> >>>> Oracle are doing one of two things - announcing that Java is for sale >>>> to device providers - phones (Google is the obvious buyer) or the >>>> impending Internet of Things (which was what Java was designed for >>>> originally) or announcing that no-one making an internet of things >>>> offering should consider Java. >>>> >>>> Yes, things live on and on in a kind of zombie state. So yes, things >>>> live on as long as their ecosystem does. And they gently wither and >>>> their ecosystem withers is a long slow drawn out spiral. Which is why >>>> we still have Cobol. >>>> >>>> People and organisations tend to move from one technology to another >>>> in an incremental fashion. Swapping a little bit here, and a little >>>> bit there. >>>> >>>> The new target platforms are ones which >>>> 1) look like they have longevity, and >>>> 2) have a migration pathway that provides incremental steps. >>>> >>>> Offering a compelling advantage is good - but only if the steps 1) >>>> and 2) are catered to. >>>> >>>> IBM VisualAge Smalltalk is still robust, commercially available >>>> software, and VisualStudio and Gemstone continue to represent >>>> Smalltalk out to the big world of corporate development. >>>> >>>> So that's a start. >>>> >>>> Say only 5% of the Java world moves away from Java each year, as a >>>> result of this announcement. >>>> >>>> We *should* wish to take advantage of this announcement. >>>> >>>> After all, think what difference having even 0.01% of the world's Java >>>> coders moving to Smalltalk would make. How could we help that >>>> happen? >>>> >>>> Think what it would be like to have thought-leaders like Kent Beck and >>>> Ward Cunningham back in the Smalltalk fold. How could we help that >>>> happen? >>>> >>>> Think what it would be like to get back all the universities who moved >>>> from teaching OO concepts using Smalltalk into teaching them via Java. >>>> We now know almost all the ones using Smalltalk as a teaching language >>>> by name. Does anyone know even how many universities teach OO via >>>> Java? What would it be like if 5% of those universities moved to >>>> Smalltalk each year. How could we help that happen? >>>> >>>> Next - do we have any big brained thinkers who can see specific ways >>>> we can improve interoperation between Java facilities and libraries >>>> and the Smalltalks? For the next 12 months, we should work on Java >>>> integration, rather than C++ integration. We should identify the >>>> three best things for us to do in this regard, and make them polished >>>> and compelling. Who is in a position to help that happen? >>>> >>>> The final way we can take advantage help the maximum number of people >>>> find their way to us is to present a united community front to the >>>> outside world. In the same way I am both a European and a Scot, we >>>> need to be Smalltalkers *and*members of our individual >>>> Smalltalk-platform communities. >>>> >>>> How can we help make that happen? >>>> >>>> This is not a silver bullet. It's going to cause a long-term trend in >>>> events, not a sudden abrupt change. But it will have a real, if >>>> gradual effect. (assuming that >>>> >>>> Equally, it is not something we should ignore. It is something we >>>> should make use of. We need to put effort into raising our profile >>>> over the next 6 months. >>>> >>>> On 25 November 2015 at 19:51, Casimiro - GMAIL >>>> <casimiro.barreto(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Em 25-11-2015 17:21, Nicolas Anquetil escreveu: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 25/11/2015 19:55, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Much truth in what you say. However, what Oracle choose to invest its money, >>>>> time, personnel resource into Java does affect its present and future. It >>>>> has a great affect. But it isn't the whole story. Java has enough momentum >>>>> in what already exists in the language and vm and what has been release >>>>> under its license, for businesses to keep going for some time with only what >>>>> currently exists. >>>>> >>>>> Cobol is still alive (and well) after > 50 years. >>>>> You can expect Java programmers to find jobs for many years yet to come >>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> nicolas >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Nicolas Anquetil >>>>> RMod team -- Inria Lille >>>>> >>>>> 1st: Java is extremely profitable. Each android phone, each android TV, each >>>>> android embedded system pays copyrights to Oracle. >>>>> 2nd: Much of current cloud infrastructure depends on java. >>>>> 3rd: Java is already obsolete, like Frotran, Cobol, C, C++. It will continue >>>>> to be used by same reasons these languages are used. >>>>> >>>>> IMHO, discussing java is not profitable. Better to discuss things to be than >>>>> talk about things that already happened. >>>>> >>>>> casimiro >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The information contained in this message is confidential and intended to >>>>> the recipients specified in the headers. If you received this message by >>>>> error, notify the sender immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copy >>>>> or alteration of this message are strictly forbidden and subjected to civil >>>>> and criminal sanctions. >>>>> >>>>> == >>>>> >>>>> This email may be signed using PGP key ID: 0x4134A417 >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >>> >>> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Presenting is storytelling." > >

Nov. 30, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Java Future

by EuanM

We also miss a critical mass of warm bodies. Funing is very nice, don;t get me wrong. But in the absence of funding we need to be even more smart about gaining, and retaining enthusiast volunteers. On 30 November 2015 at 20:45, philippe.back(a)highoctane.be <philippe.back(a)gmail.com> wrote: > We do need more ease of integration with other software. > > * 64 bit. > * OS Process made easier. > * FFI not requiring a PhD > * Being able to use Pharo with normal text based tools (like mount an image > like a filesystem). > * Full integration with trendy tools. e.g. MongoTalk missing GridFS, > sharding, HA. > > These things are moving forward. > > I am pissed that Julia got $600 000 and we are struggling due to cash > issues. > > We do not miss brainpower. We miss being able to focus on progress because > we can't fund it well enough. > > Phil > > > > On Nov 30, 2015 12:21 PM, "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Increasing the community is certainly important, and we welcome any action >> that anyone would want to undertake in this direction. >> >> However, talking about the future of Java does not fall in this category. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> > On Nov 30, 2015, at 4:44 AM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > We also need to concentrate on building our community. >> > >> > We build a better platform faster if we have more people. >> > >> > We build a more valuable platform if we have a wider range of valuable >> > use cases to target. >> > >> > Unless and until we hit a critical mass of people joining our >> > community, we *need* to spend some of our focus on community-building. >> > >> > Part of great is being able to build things to sufficient completeness >> > *and* keep them in working order over the long haul. This is easier >> > with more contributors. >> > >> > On 27 November 2015 at 21:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> Please stop this thread on this mailing list. We need to focus on >> >> building a great platform. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Doru >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 10:05 PM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> First of all - is this true? Where can we read about it? >> >>> >> >>> I cannot find anything about this at >> >>> https://www.oracle.com/search/press >> >>> >> >>> ======================================= >> >>> >> >>> If Oracle did make this statement, then what people have said so far >> >>> is true. BUT... >> >>> >> >>> Java got about 40% of its initial momentum from IBM dumping VisualAge >> >>> and putting all their resources into Java. >> >>> >> >>> Oracle are targetting this move at IBM more than anyone else. >> >>> >> >>> IBM will start to think about how to migrate from Java - as Oracle are >> >>> telling them they will have to. (It's OUR bat and its OUR ball, and >> >>> no-one else can play with it. Not even the Java Community). And >> >>> IBM's coders do not pay for Java, Eclipse users do not pay for Java. I >> >>> expect the licence-fee income for JREs is small. >> >>> >> >>> Oracle are doing one of two things - announcing that Java is for sale >> >>> to device providers - phones (Google is the obvious buyer) or the >> >>> impending Internet of Things (which was what Java was designed for >> >>> originally) or announcing that no-one making an internet of things >> >>> offering should consider Java. >> >>> >> >>> Yes, things live on and on in a kind of zombie state. So yes, things >> >>> live on as long as their ecosystem does. And they gently wither and >> >>> their ecosystem withers is a long slow drawn out spiral. Which is why >> >>> we still have Cobol. >> >>> >> >>> People and organisations tend to move from one technology to another >> >>> in an incremental fashion. Swapping a little bit here, and a little >> >>> bit there. >> >>> >> >>> The new target platforms are ones which >> >>> 1) look like they have longevity, and >> >>> 2) have a migration pathway that provides incremental steps. >> >>> >> >>> Offering a compelling advantage is good - but only if the steps 1) >> >>> and 2) are catered to. >> >>> >> >>> IBM VisualAge Smalltalk is still robust, commercially available >> >>> software, and VisualStudio and Gemstone continue to represent >> >>> Smalltalk out to the big world of corporate development. >> >>> >> >>> So that's a start. >> >>> >> >>> Say only 5% of the Java world moves away from Java each year, as a >> >>> result of this announcement. >> >>> >> >>> We *should* wish to take advantage of this announcement. >> >>> >> >>> After all, think what difference having even 0.01% of the world's Java >> >>> coders moving to Smalltalk would make. How could we help that >> >>> happen? >> >>> >> >>> Think what it would be like to have thought-leaders like Kent Beck and >> >>> Ward Cunningham back in the Smalltalk fold. How could we help that >> >>> happen? >> >>> >> >>> Think what it would be like to get back all the universities who moved >> >>> from teaching OO concepts using Smalltalk into teaching them via Java. >> >>> We now know almost all the ones using Smalltalk as a teaching language >> >>> by name. Does anyone know even how many universities teach OO via >> >>> Java? What would it be like if 5% of those universities moved to >> >>> Smalltalk each year. How could we help that happen? >> >>> >> >>> Next - do we have any big brained thinkers who can see specific ways >> >>> we can improve interoperation between Java facilities and libraries >> >>> and the Smalltalks? For the next 12 months, we should work on Java >> >>> integration, rather than C++ integration. We should identify the >> >>> three best things for us to do in this regard, and make them polished >> >>> and compelling. Who is in a position to help that happen? >> >>> >> >>> The final way we can take advantage help the maximum number of people >> >>> find their way to us is to present a united community front to the >> >>> outside world. In the same way I am both a European and a Scot, we >> >>> need to be Smalltalkers *and*members of our individual >> >>> Smalltalk-platform communities. >> >>> >> >>> How can we help make that happen? >> >>> >> >>> This is not a silver bullet. It's going to cause a long-term trend in >> >>> events, not a sudden abrupt change. But it will have a real, if >> >>> gradual effect. (assuming that >> >>> >> >>> Equally, it is not something we should ignore. It is something we >> >>> should make use of. We need to put effort into raising our profile >> >>> over the next 6 months. >> >>> >> >>> On 25 November 2015 at 19:51, Casimiro - GMAIL >> >>> <casimiro.barreto(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> Em 25-11-2015 17:21, Nicolas Anquetil escreveu: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On 25/11/2015 19:55, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Much truth in what you say. However, what Oracle choose to invest its >> >>>> money, >> >>>> time, personnel resource into Java does affect its present and >> >>>> future. It >> >>>> has a great affect. But it isn't the whole story. Java has enough >> >>>> momentum >> >>>> in what already exists in the language and vm and what has been >> >>>> release >> >>>> under its license, for businesses to keep going for some time with >> >>>> only what >> >>>> currently exists. >> >>>> >> >>>> Cobol is still alive (and well) after > 50 years. >> >>>> You can expect Java programmers to find jobs for many years yet to >> >>>> come >> >>>> :-) >> >>>> >> >>>> nicolas >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Nicolas Anquetil >> >>>> RMod team -- Inria Lille >> >>>> >> >>>> 1st: Java is extremely profitable. Each android phone, each android >> >>>> TV, each >> >>>> android embedded system pays copyrights to Oracle. >> >>>> 2nd: Much of current cloud infrastructure depends on java. >> >>>> 3rd: Java is already obsolete, like Frotran, Cobol, C, C++. It will >> >>>> continue >> >>>> to be used by same reasons these languages are used. >> >>>> >> >>>> IMHO, discussing java is not profitable. Better to discuss things to >> >>>> be than >> >>>> talk about things that already happened. >> >>>> >> >>>> casimiro >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> The information contained in this message is confidential and >> >>>> intended to >> >>>> the recipients specified in the headers. If you received this message >> >>>> by >> >>>> error, notify the sender immediately. The unauthorized use, >> >>>> disclosure, copy >> >>>> or alteration of this message are strictly forbidden and subjected to >> >>>> civil >> >>>> and criminal sanctions. >> >>>> >> >>>> == >> >>>> >> >>>> This email may be signed using PGP key ID: 0x4134A417 >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> >> >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Presenting is storytelling." >> >>

Nov. 30, 2015

Machine Learning algorithms

by KlÃ©risson PaixÃ£o

Greetings! We're thinking to power up Pharo with some machine learning algorithms (Naive Bayes, Random Forest and so on). I'm wondering if there is anything done already? Thanks, KlÃ©risson

Nov. 30, 2015

Playing video

by J.F. Rick

Is there a way to play a video file (MP4, AVI, etc.) in Pharo for Mac? There used to be a way to do this in Squeak but I can't find any documentation of how I might do it in Pharo.

Nov. 30, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Unable to open context-menu in debugger inspector (Pharo 5)

by Nicolai Hess

2015-11-30 20:15 GMT+01:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com>: > > > 2015-11-30 18:15 GMT+01:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > >> When I try to open the context menu in a workspace (not Playground) or in >> the code pane of an inspector I get the following: >> >> >> >> When I debug I get the following exception: >> "MessageNotUnderstood: MorphicTextAdapter>>acceptAllowed" >> >> The image is Pharo-5.0-50473 >> > > Yes, the context menus are broken in many tools > (Debugger/Transcript/SyntaxDebugger...) > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16887/Debugger-context-menu-broken > and ChangeSorter, EyeInspector, Finder and DiffMorph > > > >> >> Regards! >> >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >> ps: Stack trace >> >> MorphicTextAdapter(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #acceptAllowed >> RubPlainTextMode class>>menuOn: >> [ prg methodClass theNonMetaClass perform: prg selector with: menu ] in [ >> :prg | >> self >> currentRoot: self >> while: [ prg methodClass theNonMetaClass perform: prg selector with: menu >> ] ] in PragmaMenuBuilder>>collectRegistrations in Block: [ prg methodClass >> theNonMetaClass perform: prg sel...etc... >> [ aBlock value ] in PragmaMenuBuilder>>currentRoot:while: in Block: [ >> aBlock value ] >> BlockClosure>>ensure: >> >> >

Nov. 30, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Digest from slack to the mailing list?

by philippe.back＠highoctane.be

And I've not been looking at Slack that much. Digest would be we nice indeed. Phil On Nov 30, 2015 4:53 AM, "EuanM" <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: > And of course, we can stop doing it manually once threading arrives. > > On 30 November 2015 at 03:52, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I have been talking to the Slack dev team and they assure me that > > threading is on its way - as a priority. > > > > I am happy to manually curate threads if someone gets a 24hour dump to > > log files working. > > > > The best way to do this would be to have teams of curators per > > channel, each doing a little curation periodically on a rota per > > channel basis. > > > > This is an ideal task for people still getting up to speed with Pharo > > internals. It is a great way to be exposed to stuff you don't > > understand, and put your mind around it. > > > > This provide a starter slope for future contributors. > > > > On 23 November 2015 at 08:14, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> > wrote: > >> The problem is, that it is not that easy to create a âdigestâ from > Slack, as there is no kind of grouping. Either you have to detect similar > words in discussion, or you have to simply export everything. I donât know > whether it makes sense to just compose a huge email of all discussions, but > we can try to do that. > >> > >> Cheers. > >> Uko > >> > >>> On 23 Nov 2015, at 00:21, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> I agree - if we can have each 24 hours of chat archived to somewhere > >>> that provides a free-text search, that would be very good. > >>> > >>> Up until now, I've been grabbing, editting and posting chats I find of > >>> interest and importance to me. And it seems to lend itself to design > >>> discussions. What it's not very good at, atm, is discussion > >>> threading. It would be great to be able to set your typing as > >>> belonging to a thread., so that when it get sucked out and archived > >>> that the threads were segregated. > >>> > >>> Does someone have a server that could receive a text dump of all > >>> recent Slack messages every 12 (or 24, or 6) hours, and then make it > >>> available for indexing by Google et al, and querying (via the search > >>> engines) by our dev base? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 22 November 2015 at 13:57, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> Just to clear something up , because I see people in slack saying > goodbye, > >>>> or "I cant reply right now I have something to do" . Slack is not > just a > >>>> real time chat, it keeps messages inside a history of 10 thousand > messages. > >>>> So that means you can log in Slack at any time and not lose a > message. There > >>>> is no reason for you to be online all time, no reason to say goodbye, > >>>> goodmorning , goodafternoon. You can come and go as you please the > exact > >>>> same way as the mailing list. > >>>> > >>>> The problem arises when we exceed 10k messages, the old ones get lost > and I > >>>> think having a place to store them is a good idea. > >>>> > >>>> Also what is important is in the eye of the beholder, for example I > dont > >>>> care about any discussion about web development , its just does not > interest > >>>> me or database coding or many other things. I have learned to filter > out the > >>>> messages I dont care about in the mailing list and just reject them. > Slack > >>>> is same story, I quickly glance through its history and I can search > the > >>>> messages that interest me using the search bar , I can star messages > that I > >>>> want to keep, and I can comment on existing messages / code snippets > which > >>>> create a thread about that message. > >>>> > >>>> In the end its impossible to keep the community in one place but to > have a > >>>> central hub that collects all the little gems can be quite useful. > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 3:46 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes this would be good. > >>>>> People should understand that important discussions should be via the > >>>>> mailing-list. > >>>>> Emails are good because you can consume them the way you want. > >>>>> I simply cannot be connected all the time. So emails are good > because I > >>>>> can process them > >>>>> when I decide. > >>>>> Slack is good for more interactive session around debugger and things > >>>>> like that. > >>>>> > >>>>> Stef > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Le 21/11/15 18:05, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : > >>>>>> Should we have a digest from slack to a mailing list? > >>>>>> We are already losing messages > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Stephan > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > >

Nov. 30, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Java Future

by philippe.back＠highoctane.be

We do need more ease of integration with other software. * 64 bit. * OS Process made easier. * FFI not requiring a PhD * Being able to use Pharo with normal text based tools (like mount an image like a filesystem). * Full integration with trendy tools. e.g. MongoTalk missing GridFS, sharding, HA. These things are moving forward. I am pissed that Julia got $600 000 and we are struggling due to cash issues. We do not miss brainpower. We miss being able to focus on progress because we can't fund it well enough. Phil On Nov 30, 2015 12:21 PM, "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Increasing the community is certainly important, and we welcome any action that anyone would want to undertake in this direction. > > However, talking about the future of Java does not fall in this category. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Nov 30, 2015, at 4:44 AM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > We also need to concentrate on building our community. > > > > We build a better platform faster if we have more people. > > > > We build a more valuable platform if we have a wider range of valuable > > use cases to target. > > > > Unless and until we hit a critical mass of people joining our > > community, we *need* to spend some of our focus on community-building. > > > > Part of great is being able to build things to sufficient completeness > > *and* keep them in working order over the long haul. This is easier > > with more contributors. > > > > On 27 November 2015 at 21:27, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> Hello everyone, > >> > >> Please stop this thread on this mailing list. We need to focus on building a great platform. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Doru > >> > >> > >>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 10:05 PM, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> First of all - is this true? Where can we read about it? > >>> > >>> I cannot find anything about this at > >>> https://www.oracle.com/search/press > >>> > >>> ======================================= > >>> > >>> If Oracle did make this statement, then what people have said so far > >>> is true. BUT... > >>> > >>> Java got about 40% of its initial momentum from IBM dumping VisualAge > >>> and putting all their resources into Java. > >>> > >>> Oracle are targetting this move at IBM more than anyone else. > >>> > >>> IBM will start to think about how to migrate from Java - as Oracle are > >>> telling them they will have to. (It's OUR bat and its OUR ball, and > >>> no-one else can play with it. Not even the Java Community). And > >>> IBM's coders do not pay for Java, Eclipse users do not pay for Java. I > >>> expect the licence-fee income for JREs is small. > >>> > >>> Oracle are doing one of two things - announcing that Java is for sale > >>> to device providers - phones (Google is the obvious buyer) or the > >>> impending Internet of Things (which was what Java was designed for > >>> originally) or announcing that no-one making an internet of things > >>> offering should consider Java. > >>> > >>> Yes, things live on and on in a kind of zombie state. So yes, things > >>> live on as long as their ecosystem does. And they gently wither and > >>> their ecosystem withers is a long slow drawn out spiral. Which is why > >>> we still have Cobol. > >>> > >>> People and organisations tend to move from one technology to another > >>> in an incremental fashion. Swapping a little bit here, and a little > >>> bit there. > >>> > >>> The new target platforms are ones which > >>> 1) look like they have longevity, and > >>> 2) have a migration pathway that provides incremental steps. > >>> > >>> Offering a compelling advantage is good - but only if the steps 1) > >>> and 2) are catered to. > >>> > >>> IBM VisualAge Smalltalk is still robust, commercially available > >>> software, and VisualStudio and Gemstone continue to represent > >>> Smalltalk out to the big world of corporate development. > >>> > >>> So that's a start. > >>> > >>> Say only 5% of the Java world moves away from Java each year, as a > >>> result of this announcement. > >>> > >>> We *should* wish to take advantage of this announcement. > >>> > >>> After all, think what difference having even 0.01% of the world's Java > >>> coders moving to Smalltalk would make. How could we help that > >>> happen? > >>> > >>> Think what it would be like to have thought-leaders like Kent Beck and > >>> Ward Cunningham back in the Smalltalk fold. How could we help that > >>> happen? > >>> > >>> Think what it would be like to get back all the universities who moved > >>> from teaching OO concepts using Smalltalk into teaching them via Java. > >>> We now know almost all the ones using Smalltalk as a teaching language > >>> by name. Does anyone know even how many universities teach OO via > >>> Java? What would it be like if 5% of those universities moved to > >>> Smalltalk each year. How could we help that happen? > >>> > >>> Next - do we have any big brained thinkers who can see specific ways > >>> we can improve interoperation between Java facilities and libraries > >>> and the Smalltalks? For the next 12 months, we should work on Java > >>> integration, rather than C++ integration. We should identify the > >>> three best things for us to do in this regard, and make them polished > >>> and compelling. Who is in a position to help that happen? > >>> > >>> The final way we can take advantage help the maximum number of people > >>> find their way to us is to present a united community front to the > >>> outside world. In the same way I am both a European and a Scot, we > >>> need to be Smalltalkers *and*members of our individual > >>> Smalltalk-platform communities. > >>> > >>> How can we help make that happen? > >>> > >>> This is not a silver bullet. It's going to cause a long-term trend in > >>> events, not a sudden abrupt change. But it will have a real, if > >>> gradual effect. (assuming that > >>> > >>> Equally, it is not something we should ignore. It is something we > >>> should make use of. We need to put effort into raising our profile > >>> over the next 6 months. > >>> > >>> On 25 November 2015 at 19:51, Casimiro - GMAIL > >>> <casimiro.barreto(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> Em 25-11-2015 17:21, Nicolas Anquetil escreveu: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 25/11/2015 19:55, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Much truth in what you say. However, what Oracle choose to invest its money, > >>>> time, personnel resource into Java does affect its present and future. It > >>>> has a great affect. But it isn't the whole story. Java has enough momentum > >>>> in what already exists in the language and vm and what has been release > >>>> under its license, for businesses to keep going for some time with only what > >>>> currently exists. > >>>> > >>>> Cobol is still alive (and well) after > 50 years. > >>>> You can expect Java programmers to find jobs for many years yet to come > >>>> :-) > >>>> > >>>> nicolas > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Nicolas Anquetil > >>>> RMod team -- Inria Lille > >>>> > >>>> 1st: Java is extremely profitable. Each android phone, each android TV, each > >>>> android embedded system pays copyrights to Oracle. > >>>> 2nd: Much of current cloud infrastructure depends on java. > >>>> 3rd: Java is already obsolete, like Frotran, Cobol, C, C++. It will continue > >>>> to be used by same reasons these languages are used. > >>>> > >>>> IMHO, discussing java is not profitable. Better to discuss things to be than > >>>> talk about things that already happened. > >>>> > >>>> casimiro > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> The information contained in this message is confidential and intended to > >>>> the recipients specified in the headers. If you received this message by > >>>> error, notify the sender immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copy > >>>> or alteration of this message are strictly forbidden and subjected to civil > >>>> and criminal sanctions. > >>>> > >>>> == > >>>> > >>>> This email may be signed using PGP key ID: 0x4134A417 > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> www.tudorgirba.com > >> > >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > >> > >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Presenting is storytelling." > >

Nov. 30, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Unable to open context-menu in debugger inspector (Pharo 5)

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2015-11-30 16:15 GMT-03:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com>: > > > > 2015-11-30 18:15 GMT+01:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: >> >> When I try to open the context menu in a workspace (not Playground) or in the code pane of an inspector I get the following: >> >> >> >> When I debug I get the following exception: >> "MessageNotUnderstood: MorphicTextAdapter>>acceptAllowed" >> >> The image is Pharo-5.0-50473 > > > Yes, the context menus are broken in many tools (Debugger/Transcript/SyntaxDebugger...) > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16887/Debugger-context-menu-broken Seems like the merge of Rubric wasn't complete, because if you change the code to continue (and open the context-menu) it still fails when you try to execute a action from it. Regards! -- Esteban.

Nov. 30, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Unable to open context-menu in debugger inspector (Pharo 5)

by Nicolai Hess

2015-11-30 18:15 GMT+01:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > When I try to open the context menu in a workspace (not Playground) or in > the code pane of an inspector I get the following: > > > > When I debug I get the following exception: > "MessageNotUnderstood: MorphicTextAdapter>>acceptAllowed" > > The image is Pharo-5.0-50473 > Yes, the context menus are broken in many tools (Debugger/Transcript/SyntaxDebugger...) https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16887/Debugger-context-menu-broken > > Regards! > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > ps: Stack trace > > MorphicTextAdapter(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #acceptAllowed > RubPlainTextMode class>>menuOn: > [ prg methodClass theNonMetaClass perform: prg selector with: menu ] in [ > :prg | > self > currentRoot: self > while: [ prg methodClass theNonMetaClass perform: prg selector with: menu > ] ] in PragmaMenuBuilder>>collectRegistrations in Block: [ prg methodClass > theNonMetaClass perform: prg sel...etc... > [ aBlock value ] in PragmaMenuBuilder>>currentRoot:while: in Block: [ > aBlock value ] > BlockClosure>>ensure: > >

Nov. 30, 2015