January 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Revolution

by phil＠highoctane.be

For a project, I've had to look into Python and Django. After one evening installing and walking through the tutorial, I got the gist of it. There was a distinct feel: this thing provides out of the box facilities to make basic DB backed applications and neat APIs. We miss that with Seaside. That's killing us for early adopter traction. We need scaffholding facilities and database connectivity if we want to compete there. If we want to escape the best kept secret trap that is. We may be too smart for our own good. This article "Why Smart People Make Bad Entrepreneurs" / http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/240861#ixzz3ODI6RYR0 is really spot on. I am not advocating dumbing down what we do but we need to provide easier entry into the system. Talk is cheap, I know. Maybe could we put this on the table during Pharo Days at the consortium roundtable. Phil On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Lawrence Kellogg <mac.hive(a)me.com> wrote: > At this point it should probably be "This is not your grandfather's > Smalltalk" :-) > > Larry > > > > > On Jan 8, 2015, at 6:51 AM, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51 > > <https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51> > > > > I welcome your comments. It's not too late to edit the piece. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Revolution-tp4798320.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > >

Jan. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Revolution

by Sebastian Sastre

haha yeah, thatâs a good one Larry! the smartest people I know, they knows how to laugh of themselves (actually their image or perceived weaknesses) elevating their morale :D We can do that! > On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:42 AM, Lawrence Kellogg <mac.hive(a)me.com> wrote: > > At this point it should probably be "This is not your grandfather's Smalltalk" :-) > > Larry > > > >> On Jan 8, 2015, at 6:51 AM, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51 >> <https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51> >> >> I welcome your comments. It's not too late to edit the piece. >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Revolution-tp4798320.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >

Jan. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Revolution

by Lawrence Kellogg

At this point it should probably be "This is not your grandfather's Smalltalk" :-) Larry > On Jan 8, 2015, at 6:51 AM, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51 > <https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51> > > I welcome your comments. It's not too late to edit the piece. > > Thanks. > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Revolution-tp4798320.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Jan. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo{2,3} problems with seaside3.1

by Johan Brichau

Hi David, Thanks for reaching out. You are right that encountering these issues is not a good user experience and we will try to improve on that. Let me quickly respond to your remarks already. The fact that the one-click download is still Pharo2 is something that went by unnoticed. I got reminded about that just last week and will try to update the download asap. However, installing Seaside in your own Pharo image is a much more preferred solution because maintaining the one-click download with latest bugfixes takes time as well, which is precious amongst Seaside maintainers. The Seaside control panel is broken in Pharo 2 and, unless someone provides fixes for it, will not be fixed. The reason is that it does not make much sense trying to maintain that for older Pharo versions. The differences between Pharo2 and 3 are large in the area and newcomers should use Pharo 3. The source code that cannot be saved is a know issue in Pharo 3 [1]. But please mind that this is not the way to edit your code. The WABrowser is just an example. The idea is that I update the website but the I did not manage it before the end of 2014. I hope to get at it soon thoughâ¦ Cheers, Johan [1] https://code.google.com/p/seaside/issues/detail?id=811 <https://code.google.com/p/seaside/issues/detail?id=811> > On 08 Jan 2015, at 11:56, David Carlos Manuelda <stormbyte(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Currently, there are issues with latest stable seaside and pharo, which > have > been talked before but seems not getting much attention, and some of them > are important, so I want to do a little summary here. > > First of all, I have to say that I am new on smalltalk, pharo and seaside, > and started by reading Pharo by example, Deep into Pharo and Seaside > tutorial by Hasso Plattner Institut. > > Other issue, that is specially important because it confuses new users > (like > me) is that there are things which only works with pharo3 and not with > pharo2, and other, that do work with pharo2 but not in pharo3, which is > confusing, because the one click experience tarball comes with pharo2, so I > try to enumerate them here: > > ** Halos, and code editing: > - Pharo2: OK, working normally > - Pharo3: DANGEROUS, partially not working, and when it works it makes > you lose code, I explain: > x There are times in which you simply get the error: > MessageNotUnderstood: receiver of "generateWithSource" is nil and you can't > edit code > x When you don't get the above error, then you can edit code but > when > trying to save, I detected 2 possible bad behaviors: > - Save appears to work, but when you actually browse the code > you changed via browser in pharo, you see your whole method's code is > replaced by self methodHasNoSourceCode, in this case you lost your original > code > - Save not working, and debugger is raised, telling you: > Unknown variable (the method name you just edited), for example, in my case > I edited via browser the initialize method, and I got Unknown variable > initialize. > > ** Seaside Control Panel: > - Pharo3: OK, no errors > - Pharo2: Not working: > x Menu entry is missing > x If you invoke it manually or you just use the one that is raised > when you open firstly the one click experience image: > * Right click not showing anything (in pharo3 right click > displays add adapter and that kind of options) > * Selecting an adapter and clicking "Browse" give you: Not > understood message WAServerAdapterToolbar>>owner > * Start/Stop options also shows above message not understood > error > > > > Summary: Again, I am not an expert, and some of these issues are not > important enough, because seaside continues to work, but in my honest > opinion, that incongruity of functionality between versions 2 and 3, do not > make much sense, and make user to chose between comodity (seaside control > panel) and functionality (halos). > > > Any opinions to this? Thanks for taking your time to read :) > > David. > > >

Jan. 8, 2015

R: The Smalltalk Revolution

by Lorenzo Schiavina

Great job Richard! Lorenzo -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di horrido Inviato: giovedÃ¬ 8 gennaio 2015 12:51 A: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org Oggetto: [Pharo-dev] The Smalltalk Revolution https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51 <https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51> I welcome your comments. It's not too late to edit the piece. Thanks. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Revolution-tp4798320.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 8, 2015

The Smalltalk Revolution

by horrido

https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51 <https://medium.com/@richardeng/the-smalltalk-revolution-ee245c281f51> I welcome your comments. It's not too late to edit the piece. Thanks. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Revolution-tp4798320.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 8, 2015

Athens/Morphic

by Nicolai Hess

A new Version of the AthensWrapWorldMorph (useful for testing Athens based drawing for morphs). And some changes for using Athens with the existing Morphs: Many things are working, some important not. I had some terrible, terrible hours fighting with clipping, MorphTransformation and Textrendering. MorphTreeTransform still doesn't work. Textrendering: I solved by using some of AthensText-classes. Those aren't fully working. Tabs or similiar control characters don't work. Text emphasis doesn't work. Different fonts and different colors in one TextMorph is working now! And I still don't know if this is the right way and I did not get any review/feedback on this (issue 13449). (In the meantime we have similiar TxTextModel based classes in the image, maybe I am wasting my time). I had to make one change for creating a pattern paint from a form: AthensCairoSurface>>#fromForm: I am not sure about this change, but image fillstyle with 1 pixel height didn't work, but now they do (for example, change to vistary or watery theme, they make some heavy use on fillstyles, and it works now with athens). athens_wrap_world.cs is a new AthensWrapWorldMorph for testing Athens rendering, every Morph put on this WrapWorld will be drawn by athens. athens_morphic_support.cs and athens_morphic_textsupports.cs add/fix athens related methods. athens_morphic_drawonathens.cs defines some more drawOnAthensCanvas: methods.

Jan. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo{2,3} problems with seaside3.1

by Max Leske

Hi David Thanks for those observations. Quick question: which VMs did you use (for 2 and 3 respectively)? Did you use the one-click app? Cheers, Max > On 08 Jan 2015, at 11:56, David Carlos Manuelda <stormbyte(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Currently, there are issues with latest stable seaside and pharo, which > have > been talked before but seems not getting much attention, and some of them > are important, so I want to do a little summary here. > > First of all, I have to say that I am new on smalltalk, pharo and seaside, > and started by reading Pharo by example, Deep into Pharo and Seaside > tutorial by Hasso Plattner Institut. > > Other issue, that is specially important because it confuses new users > (like > me) is that there are things which only works with pharo3 and not with > pharo2, and other, that do work with pharo2 but not in pharo3, which is > confusing, because the one click experience tarball comes with pharo2, so I > try to enumerate them here: > > ** Halos, and code editing: > - Pharo2: OK, working normally > - Pharo3: DANGEROUS, partially not working, and when it works it makes > you lose code, I explain: > x There are times in which you simply get the error: > MessageNotUnderstood: receiver of "generateWithSource" is nil and you can't > edit code > x When you don't get the above error, then you can edit code but > when > trying to save, I detected 2 possible bad behaviors: > - Save appears to work, but when you actually browse the code > you changed via browser in pharo, you see your whole method's code is > replaced by self methodHasNoSourceCode, in this case you lost your original > code > - Save not working, and debugger is raised, telling you: > Unknown variable (the method name you just edited), for example, in my case > I edited via browser the initialize method, and I got Unknown variable > initialize. > > ** Seaside Control Panel: > - Pharo3: OK, no errors > - Pharo2: Not working: > x Menu entry is missing > x If you invoke it manually or you just use the one that is raised > when you open firstly the one click experience image: > * Right click not showing anything (in pharo3 right click > displays add adapter and that kind of options) > * Selecting an adapter and clicking "Browse" give you: Not > understood message WAServerAdapterToolbar>>owner > * Start/Stop options also shows above message not understood > error > > > > Summary: Again, I am not an expert, and some of these issues are not > important enough, because seaside continues to work, but in my honest > opinion, that incongruity of functionality between versions 2 and 3, do not > make much sense, and make user to chose between comodity (seaside control > panel) and functionality (halos). > > > Any opinions to this? Thanks for taking your time to read :) > > David. > > >

Jan. 8, 2015

Pharo{2,3} problems with seaside3.1

by David Carlos Manuelda

Currently, there are issues with latest stable seaside and pharo, which have been talked before but seems not getting much attention, and some of them are important, so I want to do a little summary here. First of all, I have to say that I am new on smalltalk, pharo and seaside, and started by reading Pharo by example, Deep into Pharo and Seaside tutorial by Hasso Plattner Institut. Other issue, that is specially important because it confuses new users (like me) is that there are things which only works with pharo3 and not with pharo2, and other, that do work with pharo2 but not in pharo3, which is confusing, because the one click experience tarball comes with pharo2, so I try to enumerate them here: ** Halos, and code editing: - Pharo2: OK, working normally - Pharo3: DANGEROUS, partially not working, and when it works it makes you lose code, I explain: x There are times in which you simply get the error: MessageNotUnderstood: receiver of "generateWithSource" is nil and you can't edit code x When you don't get the above error, then you can edit code but when trying to save, I detected 2 possible bad behaviors: - Save appears to work, but when you actually browse the code you changed via browser in pharo, you see your whole method's code is replaced by self methodHasNoSourceCode, in this case you lost your original code - Save not working, and debugger is raised, telling you: Unknown variable (the method name you just edited), for example, in my case I edited via browser the initialize method, and I got Unknown variable initialize. ** Seaside Control Panel: - Pharo3: OK, no errors - Pharo2: Not working: x Menu entry is missing x If you invoke it manually or you just use the one that is raised when you open firstly the one click experience image: * Right click not showing anything (in pharo3 right click displays add adapter and that kind of options) * Selecting an adapter and clicking "Browse" give you: Not understood message WAServerAdapterToolbar>>owner * Start/Stop options also shows above message not understood error Summary: Again, I am not an expert, and some of these issues are not important enough, because seaside continues to work, but in my honest opinion, that incongruity of functionality between versions 2 and 3, do not make much sense, and make user to chose between comodity (seaside control panel) and functionality (halos). Any opinions to this? Thanks for taking your time to read :) David.

Jan. 8, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo CI down?

by Marcus Denker

> On 08 Jan 2015, at 04:58, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > ci.inria.fr/pharo seems to be down... > Yes, I have send a mail to the support before going to bedâ¦ no results yet. Marcus

Jan. 8, 2015