January 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] The "death" of Smalltalk

by kilon alios

If Smalltalk is dead , that make Pharo a necromancer . Nice necromancers were always my favorite heroes in RPGs like Baldur's Gate :) Pharo , the dark side of the force :D On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 7:37 PM, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0 and had a few > comments that I thought I would share. > > First, there is a real opportunity for Smalltalk to come back in the guise > of Pharo. Steph and Marcus are doing a great job providing leadership > towards that end and the community is great. Second, we need to be careful > in spreading the word. Slowly but surely (the current Pharo approach) is a > great approach as it allows really building something worth spreading > before trying to get everyone into it. If it spreads too quickly, bad API > or immature toolkits will become ingrained and flaws will be apparent. The > books, websites, etc. are really good things to get right before trying to > get others into it; they are already very good. Third, if you want to > really spread Smalltalk, then the fundamentals that newcomers experience > need to be without obvious flaws. From personal experience, I can tell you > that BitBlt rendering makes newbies think that Pharo is a toy language. > Switching to Athens rendering is therefore tremendously important for > adoption. Package management really needs to be cleaned up. There needs to > be a simple way to merge resources (bitmaps, audio, external files) into > the codebase. Simple audio needs to work on all platforms. This may seem > trivial but audio is one of the simplest things that newcomers want to do. > From a Linux perspective, this will probably necessitate switching to a > 64-bit VM as the 32-bit sound plug-ins are a giant pain. Given that even > phone OSs are switching to 64-bit, there may not be a need for a 32-bit > Pharo. Of course, much of this is already on the horizon. > > As the new year begins, I'll once again be coding in Pharo and look > forward to it. I'm really hopeful about the future. > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > -- > Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. > http://www.je77.com/ > Skype ID: jochenrick >

Jan. 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk

by Sebastian Sastre

Hi Jochen, have in mind that the talk you referred is from 2009 and many controversial things happened in the Ruby community at that time. Coming closer to today, we just had this presentation which presents Smalltalk better than many Smalltalkers Iâve heard! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGaKZBr0ga4 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGaKZBr0ga4> Want to show off smalltalk to non-smalltalker audiences in an effective way? watch and learn! > On Jan 9, 2015, at 3:37 PM, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0> and had a few comments that I thought I would share. > > First, there is a real opportunity for Smalltalk to come back in the guise of Pharo. Steph and Marcus are doing a great job providing leadership towards that end and the community is great. Second, we need to be careful in spreading the word. Slowly but surely (the current Pharo approach) is a great approach as it allows really building something worth spreading before trying to get everyone into it. If it spreads too quickly, bad API or immature toolkits will become ingrained and flaws will be apparent. The books, websites, etc. are really good things to get right before trying to get others into it; they are already very good. Third, if you want to really spread Smalltalk, then the fundamentals that newcomers experience need to be without obvious flaws. From personal experience, I can tell you that BitBlt rendering makes newbies think that Pharo is a toy language. Switching to Athens rendering is therefore tremendously important for adoption. Package management really needs to be cleaned up. There needs to be a simple way to merge resources (bitmaps, audio, external files) into the codebase. Simple audio needs to work on all platforms. This may seem trivial but audio is one of the simplest things that newcomers want to do. From a Linux perspective, this will probably necessitate switching to a 64-bit VM as the 32-bit sound plug-ins are a giant pain. Given that even phone OSs are switching to 64-bit, there may not be a need for a 32-bit Pharo. Of course, much of this is already on the horizon. > > As the new year begins, I'll once again be coding in Pharo and look forward to it. I'm really hopeful about the future. > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > -- > Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. > http://www.je77.com/ <http://www.je77.com/> > Skype ID: jochenrick

Jan. 9, 2015

The "death" of Smalltalk

by J.F. Rick

Hi everyone, I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0 and had a few comments that I thought I would share. First, there is a real opportunity for Smalltalk to come back in the guise of Pharo. Steph and Marcus are doing a great job providing leadership towards that end and the community is great. Second, we need to be careful in spreading the word. Slowly but surely (the current Pharo approach) is a great approach as it allows really building something worth spreading before trying to get everyone into it. If it spreads too quickly, bad API or immature toolkits will become ingrained and flaws will be apparent. The books, websites, etc. are really good things to get right before trying to get others into it; they are already very good. Third, if you want to really spread Smalltalk, then the fundamentals that newcomers experience need to be without obvious flaws. From personal experience, I can tell you that BitBlt rendering makes newbies think that Pharo is a toy language. Switching to Athens rendering is therefore tremendously important for adoption. Package management really needs to be cleaned up. There needs to be a simple way to merge resources (bitmaps, audio, external files) into the codebase. Simple audio needs to work on all platforms. This may seem trivial but audio is one of the simplest things that newcomers want to do. >From a Linux perspective, this will probably necessitate switching to a 64-bit VM as the 32-bit sound plug-ins are a giant pain. Given that even phone OSs are switching to 64-bit, there may not be a need for a 32-bit Pharo. Of course, much of this is already on the horizon. As the new year begins, I'll once again be coding in Pharo and look forward to it. I'm really hopeful about the future. Cheers, Jeff -- Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. http://www.je77.com/ Skype ID: jochenrick

Jan. 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] are senders and implementors broken in Pharo40?

by Marcus Denker

> On 08 Jan 2015, at 18:27, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >> On 08 Jan 2015, at 17:16, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> When I do senders of buildFrom: I get nautilus pointing a class but not the method? >> No time to fix it but we should avoid to integrate enh that breaks the browser like that. >> > > The strange thing is that it does not happen always. > > If I download the image it works. But I had already multiple cases where it stopped working > I have not yet found out why. > This is an effect of the change that the Browser remembers the search for categories put in the upper right corner: When this is set and the method is not in the scope, then it is not correctly selected in the browser (as it is not in the limited scope). https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14634/Package-Filter-in-Nautilus-should-u… <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14634/Package-Filter-in-Nautilus-should-u…> Marcus

Jan. 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Essay Topics

by horrido

Absolutely! This is an exciting development. It serves as a good response to Topic #1. Your website provides some very cool links. They're a bit more technical than I'd like for a "marketing" campaign, but they can certainly be couched in more sales-friendly terms. So I suggest the following... First, make clear that this is an ongoing project with a near-term goal of release (ie, two years). Then outline your motivations, your general philosophy, and give a nice overview of the IDE. You can work in all of those cool links of yours into the text. Your website shows me that *you know how to sell yourself*. So take this opportunity to write an essay in your own words that excites the public. In so doing, you answer a major concern of developers who feel anxious about leaving behind Eclipse, IntelliJ, or Visual Studio. Thanks. Tudor Girba-2 wrote > Hi Richard, > > A note about the IDE: we put together a team that is working on building > the future Pharo IDE. Our goal is not to reproduce existing IDE but > created > a new and integrated experience that plays to the strengths of Pharo. > > This is a rather ambitious project that will likely last a couple of > years. > You can see our current page here: > http://gt.moosetechnology.org > > Regarding the philosophy, you can get some input by watching the > "Designing > for Developer Experience" talk: > part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKVPJU3W5Ys > part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9_JDpFq6qI > part 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IBGEOPLmY > > We think this is worth advertising. Please let me know if it is of > interest > to you. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 2:23 PM, horrido < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: > >> I haven't heard from anyone else, which concerns me a little. >> >> I remind everyone that this campaign is about you. Without your >> participation, it cannot succeed. >> >> Just drop me a line and tell me which topic you're writing on. You may, >> if >> you wish, create a new topic, as well. My list of topics was chosen based >> on >> the concerns I heard from other developers. Thanks. >> >> >> horrido wrote >> > Our first essay (in response to Topic #2)! >> > >> http://smalltalkrenaissance.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/smalltalk-in-business-… >> > < >> http://smalltalkrenaissance.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/smalltalk-in-business-… >> > >> > >> > Please step up. We need more. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > horrido wrote >> >> As promised, here is my first list of essay topics. I would like to >> ask >> >> you to submit an essay on one of these topics. Multiple submissions >> are >> >> welcome; if they're good, they will all get published at Smalltalk >> >> Renaissance. >> >> >> >> I will edit the articles for grammar and style. You should look good >> >> after I'm done. >> >> >> >> There's no deadline, but obviously the sooner you can write them, the >> >> better. SRP is a fast-moving campaign. >> >> >> >> If you have other suggestions for essay topics, please let me know. >> >> >> >> Without further ado, here are the topics... >> >> >> >> >> >> Topic #1: >> >> >> >> How do modern IDEs, such as Eclipse and IntelliJ and Visual Studio, >> >> compare with the tried-and-true Smalltalk development environment? >> >> >> >> ----- >> >> Topic #2: >> >> >> >> It is the contention of some critics, including >> >> Robert Martin <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0> >> >> , that Smalltalk did not (does not?) address the needs of the >> enterprise. >> >> Present a counter-argument. >> >> >> >> Explain how Smalltalk can assist the enterprise in team development, >> in >> >> large-scale development, and in integrating with existing (typically >> >> Windows-based) infrastructures. >> >> >> >> Pay particular attention to the question of RDBMS usage, which is >> often >> >> critical in the enterprise. >> >> >> >> ----- >> >> Topic #3: >> >> >> >> Some critics complain that Smalltalk does not play well with existing >> >> file-based tooling. >> / >> >> Duh! >> / >> >> Smalltalk is a "new" approach to IDEs and software engineering. We >> >> should be advancing this paradigm with new tooling, rather than >> falling >> >> back on the old again and again. Otherwise, things will never change >> for >> >> the better. >> >> >> >> Make a case for why we should embrace this change now, rather than >> >> waiting (for what?). >> >> >> >> Also, this >> >> webpage >> <http://thoughtstorms.info/view/smalltalkunix/view/smalltalk> >> >> poses an interesting argument against Smalltalk. Perhaps someone can >> >> tackle it. >> >> >> >> ----- >> >> Topic #4: >> >> >> >> In the age of multi-core processors and concurrency programming, how >> is >> >> Smalltalk addressing the concerns of developers? >> >> >> >> ----- >> >> Topic #5: >> >> >> >> How should we address the issue of compatibility (ie, fragmentation) >> >> among various implementations of Smalltalk? Does this issue hamper the >> >> creation of an ecosystem of libraries and shared code? >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Essay-Topics-tp4797847p4798569.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Essay-Topics-tp4797847p4798605.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] OS Project with initial support for Ubuntu and Unix

by kilon alios

what are the goals for OSX ? is there any documentation ? On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Damien wrote > > that is really great news, thank you very much. > > You should thank Igor as he invented NB to make this possible > and convinced me that it is not a good idea to pollute the NB package > too much with platform specific API wrapping. So NB should be reduced to > the FFI part > and anything other could be loaded on top. > > > Do you plan a common > > interface to manipulate OSes polymorphically? This could include: > > > > - opening an external application > > - sending a file to the trash > > - ... > > Yes - that is the (long term) goal. Currently I wrap what I find, need or > learn about > but try to keep it uniform. Later a common layer could/should sit on top > calling the underlying loaded platform package. > > At least the "OS-XXX-Core" package should provide the minimum basic > facilities like opening a browser, run a new process or a deleting files, > ... > > You can load "OSWindows" and "OSOSX" additionally as well from the config > browser > and compare them. They have the same package structure and some > classes are equally created. > > > Thanks again! > > As ever anybody is invited to help. I can not do this for all platforms > or one has to buy me a mac ;) > > Thx > T. > >

Jan. 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] OS Project with initial support for Ubuntu and Unix

by Torsten Bergmann

Damien wrote > that is really great news, thank you very much. You should thank Igor as he invented NB to make this possible and convinced me that it is not a good idea to pollute the NB package too much with platform specific API wrapping. So NB should be reduced to the FFI part and anything other could be loaded on top. > Do you plan a common > interface to manipulate OSes polymorphically? This could include: > > - opening an external application > - sending a file to the trash > - ... Yes - that is the (long term) goal. Currently I wrap what I find, need or learn about but try to keep it uniform. Later a common layer could/should sit on top calling the underlying loaded platform package. At least the "OS-XXX-Core" package should provide the minimum basic facilities like opening a browser, run a new process or a deleting files, ... You can load "OSWindows" and "OSOSX" additionally as well from the config browser and compare them. They have the same package structure and some classes are equally created. > Thanks again! As ever anybody is invited to help. I can not do this for all platforms or one has to buy me a mac ;) Thx T.

Jan. 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ANN] OS Project with initial support for Ubuntu and Unix

by Damien Cassou

that is really great news, thank you very much. Do you plan a common interface to manipulate OSes polymorphically? This could include: - opening an external application - sending a file to the trash - ... Thanks again! On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Hi, > > beside the existing "OS-Windows" support for Windows operating system > the "Pharo OS project" (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~OS) now also has > new subprojects for "OS-Unix" and "OS-Linux-Ubuntu" with some initial > support for these native platforms as well. > > You can load it from the config browser in Pharo 4.0. I guess the > attached screenshot will explain it all... > > Bye > T. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

Jan. 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] Cormas now open-source

by Alexandre Bergel

I think I used it once, to try. This is an excellent news. Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Jan 9, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > > the CORMAS modelling platform is now open-source and available under > the MIT licence. > CORMAS (Common-pool Resources and Multiagent Systems; Bousquet et al., > 1998) has been > developed to provide a multi-agent framework that can be used to > simulate the interactions > between a group of agents and a shared environment holding natural resources. > > The code is written in VisualWorks 7.6 and a port to the Pharo/MOOSE > has started recently. > > If you are interested, you can join the mailing-list here: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cormas-dev > > All issues are here: https://github.com/cormas/cormas/issues > > An early dev version on Pharo can be loaded in the last MOOSE 5.0 image: > > Gofer new > url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/SergeStinckwich/CORMAS/main'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfCormas'; > load. > > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfCormas) loadDevelopment > > Regards, > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Jan. 9, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cormas now open-source

by Serge Stinckwich

CIRAD green team : http://ur-green.cirad.fr/ On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Interesting. > > Who developed it originally? > > Doru > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Serge Stinckwich > <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> the CORMAS modelling platform is now open-source and available under >> the MIT licence. >> CORMAS (Common-pool Resources and Multiagent Systems; Bousquet et al., >> 1998) has been >> developed to provide a multi-agent framework that can be used to >> simulate the interactions >> between a group of agents and a shared environment holding natural >> resources. >> >> The code is written in VisualWorks 7.6 and a port to the Pharo/MOOSE >> has started recently. >> >> If you are interested, you can join the mailing-list here: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cormas-dev >> >> All issues are here: https://github.com/cormas/cormas/issues >> >> An early dev version on Pharo can be loaded in the last MOOSE 5.0 image: >> >> Gofer new >> url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/SergeStinckwich/CORMAS/main'; >> package: 'ConfigurationOfCormas'; >> load. >> >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfCormas) loadDevelopment >> >> Regards, >> -- >> Serge Stinckwich >> UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) >> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Jan. 9, 2015