January 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] athens font rendering and subpixel antialiasing

by Alexandre Bergel

No idea, but it would be great to improve the situation with the Cairo integration. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Jan 11, 2015, at 6:43 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > Anyone knows, why the text rendering with athens (cairo) looks slightly > different than the freetypeplugin one? > > attached is a screenshot, left side athen right side (morphic) freetypeplugin. > > It "looks" like the cairo freetype fontrendering uses > CAIRO_ANTIALIAS_GRAY, no colored subpixel antialiasing. > But the font options do define antialiase subpixel and a subpixel ordering RGB. > > This is on windows 7 with the latest vm, does it look different on other > Systems? > > > nicolai > > > <athens_subpixel.png>

Jan. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT tool request

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Cmd+c does copy the text in the clipboard. Cheers, Doru On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > I share your experience. It often happen that I would like to copy and > paste the result of a cmd-p action. > Maybe if I do a cmd-c action on blue rectangle it can copy the printstring > of it? > > Alexandre > > > > Le 11 janv. 2015 Ã 17:11, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : > > > > Hi > > > > I found the blue rectangle morph painful because it blocks me when I > want to freely edit expression and result. > > Would it be possible that when I type enter the blue rectangle text is > paste in the pane below its expression. > > Right now I have to copy and paste explictly and it not working. I hate > so much this broken interaction.... > > > > Example > > > > (20@200) printString get blue rectangle > > press copy parentheses got hilighlited no idea why > > then I press enter to go to the next line (my selection vanished of > course because the magic things selected everything automatically) > > and I can paste the result and start to edit it. > > > > I sincerly hope that GT guys will understand and modify it because right > now this is a show stopper to me. > > It breaks so badly interaction with texts. > > > > Stef > > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Jan. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT tool request

by Alexandre Bergel

I share your experience. It often happen that I would like to copy and paste the result of a cmd-p action. Maybe if I do a cmd-c action on blue rectangle it can copy the printstring of it? Alexandre > Le 11 janv. 2015 Ã 17:11, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : > > Hi > > I found the blue rectangle morph painful because it blocks me when I want to freely edit expression and result. > Would it be possible that when I type enter the blue rectangle text is paste in the pane below its expression. > Right now I have to copy and paste explictly and it not working. I hate so much this broken interaction.... > > Example > > (20@200) printString get blue rectangle > press copy parentheses got hilighlited no idea why > then I press enter to go to the next line (my selection vanished of course because the magic things selected everything automatically) > and I can paste the result and start to edit it. > > I sincerly hope that GT guys will understand and modify it because right now this is a show stopper to me. > It breaks so badly interaction with texts. > > Stef > >

Jan. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] athens font rendering and subpixel antialiasing

by Esteban Lorenzano

Weirdâ¦ Both FT plugin and Athens use same library (even same instance)â¦ but could be something on how cairo threats them what makes a difference, I suppose. Esteban > On 11 Jan 2015, at 18:43, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > Anyone knows, why the text rendering with athens (cairo) looks slightly > different than the freetypeplugin one? > > attached is a screenshot, left side athen right side (morphic) freetypeplugin. > > It "looks" like the cairo freetype fontrendering uses > CAIRO_ANTIALIAS_GRAY, no colored subpixel antialiasing. > But the font options do define antialiase subpixel and a subpixel ordering RGB. > > This is on windows 7 with the latest vm, does it look different on other > Systems? > > > nicolai > > > <athens_subpixel.png>

Jan. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT tool request

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 12 Jan 2015, at 04:00, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi Stef, > > Thanks a lot for the detailed report. Comments inline. > > > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 9:11 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > Hi > > I found the blue rectangle morph painful because it blocks me when I want to freely edit expression and result. > Would it be possible that when I type enter the blue rectangle text is paste in the pane below its expression. > > > We are debating this feature since quite a while and we indeed need to settle on a solution. Esteban also wanted Enter, and I was more inclined towards Cmd+v. IMPOV, enter feels more easy to understand, while cmd+v feels the oposite (because you are proposing a cmd+v without the previous cmd+c). So, I still vote for enter :) > > I opened an issue: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14711/The-Playground-print-popper-should-… <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14711/The-Playground-print-popper-should-…> > > > Right now I have to copy and paste explictly and it not working. I hate so much this broken interaction.... > > Indeed. The main use case considered for the popper (that is the name of the widget) is to not get the original editor dirty. The current way to do things is like this: > - Cmd+c > - Esc > - Right Arrow > - Cmd+v > > Clearly not ideal. > > > Example > > (20@200) printString get blue rectangle > press copy parentheses got hilighlited no idea why > > There are two things here, and this is confusing right now in the Pharo theme: The background of the popper has the same background as the text selection: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14712/The-print-popper-should-have-a-diff… <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14712/The-print-popper-should-have-a-diff…> > > The reason you see the parantheses selected is due to the smart parantheses mechanism that I did not know how to suppress only for one text widget :(. > > > then I press enter to go to the next line (my selection vanished of course because the magic things selected everything automatically) > > The selection is the same as in the previous interface. For example, in a basic Workspace, press Cmd+i without selecting anything and the whole like will be selected. We cannot just erase the selection when we exit the popper because sometimes you actually have an explicit selection that you should not lose. But, coming to think about it, we should probably use the highlighting mechanism for the text instead of the selection one. I will look into this. > > > and I can paste the result and start to edit it. > I sincerly hope that GT guys will understand and modify it because right now this is a show stopper to me. > It breaks so badly interaction with texts. > > We will fix this, but in the meantime, could you tell me the use case for which you need to paste the text in the same editor? I am asking because I would like to learn as I never need to do it. This is why the interface does not support that action so I need to learn the use case :). > > Cheers, > Doru > > > Stef > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Jan. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTInspector does not refresh printString

by Andrei Chis

Hi Stef, The inspector does not automatically update the string representation for now (as it does not automatically refresh-- the same discussion as the state view). It should however update the representation if you change printOn: and manually refresh/ inspect the object again. Just checked it and it works for me. If it doesn't work for you then there is a bug. What did you do? Cheers, Andrei On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 12:14 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi > > GTInspector does not change the printString representation when we change > the printOn:. > Am I the only one to see this behavior? > > Stef > >

Jan. 12, 2015

GTInspector does not refresh printString

by stepharo

Hi GTInspector does not change the printString representation when we change the printOn:. Am I the only one to see this behavior? Stef

Jan. 12, 2015

R: R: R: from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk

by Lorenzo Schiavina

Yes Sven, we have so many advantages (logical and operational) we give for grant after ST! People that are using other (nice) languages are not even able to imagine. I remember a discussion I had about polymorphism with people from Borland about Pascal (a really good language). Maybe, this could be something we should point out; I am completely available for doing that. Lorenzo -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Sven Van Caekenberghe Inviato: lunedÃ¬ 12 gennaio 2015 11:06 A: Pharo Development List Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] R: R: from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk > On 12 Jan 2015, at 10:55, Lorenzo Schiavina <lorenzo(a)edor.it> wrote: > > Hi Sven, > > I find your observations absolutely reasonable; anyway, my point is to > show the difference between "object" number and "normal" (I mean > integer and floating point you find in "normal" languages)number. > I have not seen the problem for many years so, maybe, at present is > not the same, but I remember how I was surprised the first time I > realized that I have not the floating point barrier using Smalltalk! > It was in this moment that I felt that Smalltalk "is" the language! Yes, Lorenzo, I am so used to that, that I completely forgot, but yes the fact that primitive types are just regular objects is really important (and a differentiator). What I remember now is another thing that I found so interesting: that you can (are allowed to and even encouraged to, when placed in separate protocols) your own methods on system classes (like numbers or string). There are so many cool aspects ;-) > Ciao > > Lorenzo > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di > Sven Van Caekenberghe > Inviato: lunedÃ¬ 12 gennaio 2015 09:48 > A: Pharo Development List > Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] R: from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to > 2014's But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk > > >> On 12 Jan 2015, at 09:15, Lorenzo Schiavina <lorenzo(a)edor.it> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> instead of using the trivial 2 + 2 as ST example, for many years I >> have > found more impressive: 50000 factorial printString size and then to > show factorial method, that is very easy to understand. >> IMHO it is STÂs essence of innovation and power. > > What about showing/explaining (progressive complexity) > > 123 factorial. > 123 factorial numberOfDigits. > 123 factorial primeFactors. > 123 factorial primeFactors reduce: [ :x :y | x * y ]. > > And in the last inspector > > self = 123 factorial > > The video was pretty good, but I would never start discussing > precedence rules in this type of presentation and certainly not using plain arithmetic. > >> >> Lorenzo >> >> Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di > Sebastian Sastre >> Inviato: venerdÃ¬ 9 gennaio 2015 19:07 >> A: Pharo Development List >> Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to >> 2014's > But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk >> >> Hi Jochen, >> >> have in mind that the talk you referred is from 2009 and many > controversial things happened in the Ruby community at that time. >> >> Coming closer to today, we just had this presentation which presents > Smalltalk better than many Smalltalkers IÂve heard! >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGaKZBr0ga4 >> >> Want to show off smalltalk to non-smalltalker audiences in an >> effective > way? watch and learn! >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 9, 2015, at 3:37 PM, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0 and had a >>> few > comments that I thought I would share. >>> >>> First, there is a real opportunity for Smalltalk to come back in the > guise of Pharo. Steph and Marcus are doing a great job providing > leadership towards that end and the community is great. Second, we > need to be careful in spreading the word. Slowly but surely (the > current Pharo approach) is a great approach as it allows really > building something worth spreading before trying to get everyone into > it. If it spreads too quickly, bad API or immature toolkits will > become ingrained and flaws will be apparent. The books, websites, etc. > are really good things to get right before trying to get others into > it; they are already very good. Third, if you want to really spread > Smalltalk, then the fundamentals that newcomers experience need to be > without obvious flaws. From personal experience, I can tell you that > BitBlt rendering makes newbies think that Pharo is a toy language. > Switching to Athens rendering is therefore tremendously important for > adoption. Package management really needs to be cleaned up. There > needs to be a simple way to merge resources (bitmaps, audio, external > files) into the codebase. Simple audio needs to work on all platforms. > This may seem trivial but audio is one of the simplest things that > newcomers want to do. From a Linux perspective, this will probably > necessitate switching to a 64-bit VM as the 32-bit sound plug-ins are > a giant pain. Given that even phone OSs are switching to 64-bit, there may not be a need for a 32-bit Pharo. Of course, much of this is already on the horizon. >>> >>> As the new year begins, I'll once again be coding in Pharo and look > forward to it. I'm really hopeful about the future. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> -- >>> Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. >>> http://www.je77.com/ >>> Skype ID: jochenrick > > >

Jan. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] R: R: from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 12 Jan 2015, at 10:55, Lorenzo Schiavina <lorenzo(a)edor.it> wrote: > > Hi Sven, > > I find your observations absolutely reasonable; anyway, my point is to show > the difference between "object" number and "normal" (I mean integer and > floating point you find in "normal" languages)number. > I have not seen the problem for many years so, maybe, at present is not the > same, but I remember how I was surprised the first time I realized that I > have not the floating point barrier using Smalltalk! > It was in this moment that I felt that Smalltalk "is" the language! Yes, Lorenzo, I am so used to that, that I completely forgot, but yes the fact that primitive types are just regular objects is really important (and a differentiator). What I remember now is another thing that I found so interesting: that you can (are allowed to and even encouraged to, when placed in separate protocols) your own methods on system classes (like numbers or string). There are so many cool aspects ;-) > Ciao > > Lorenzo > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Sven > Van Caekenberghe > Inviato: lunedÃ¬ 12 gennaio 2015 09:48 > A: Pharo Development List > Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] R: from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's > But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk > > >> On 12 Jan 2015, at 09:15, Lorenzo Schiavina <lorenzo(a)edor.it> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> instead of using the trivial 2 + 2 as ST example, for many years I have > found more impressive: 50000 factorial printString size and then to show > factorial method, that is very easy to understand. >> IMHO it is STâs essence of innovation and power. > > What about showing/explaining (progressive complexity) > > 123 factorial. > 123 factorial numberOfDigits. > 123 factorial primeFactors. > 123 factorial primeFactors reduce: [ :x :y | x * y ]. > > And in the last inspector > > self = 123 factorial > > The video was pretty good, but I would never start discussing precedence > rules in this type of presentation and certainly not using plain arithmetic. > >> >> Lorenzo >> >> Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di > Sebastian Sastre >> Inviato: venerdÃ¬ 9 gennaio 2015 19:07 >> A: Pharo Development List >> Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's > But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk >> >> Hi Jochen, >> >> have in mind that the talk you referred is from 2009 and many > controversial things happened in the Ruby community at that time. >> >> Coming closer to today, we just had this presentation which presents > Smalltalk better than many Smalltalkers Iâve heard! >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGaKZBr0ga4 >> >> Want to show off smalltalk to non-smalltalker audiences in an effective > way? watch and learn! >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 9, 2015, at 3:37 PM, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0 and had a few > comments that I thought I would share. >>> >>> First, there is a real opportunity for Smalltalk to come back in the > guise of Pharo. Steph and Marcus are doing a great job providing leadership > towards that end and the community is great. Second, we need to be careful > in spreading the word. Slowly but surely (the current Pharo approach) is a > great approach as it allows really building something worth spreading before > trying to get everyone into it. If it spreads too quickly, bad API or > immature toolkits will become ingrained and flaws will be apparent. The > books, websites, etc. are really good things to get right before trying to > get others into it; they are already very good. Third, if you want to really > spread Smalltalk, then the fundamentals that newcomers experience need to be > without obvious flaws. From personal experience, I can tell you that BitBlt > rendering makes newbies think that Pharo is a toy language. Switching to > Athens rendering is therefore tremendously important for adoption. Package > management really needs to be cleaned up. There needs to be a simple way to > merge resources (bitmaps, audio, external files) into the codebase. Simple > audio needs to work on all platforms. This may seem trivial but audio is one > of the simplest things that newcomers want to do. From a Linux perspective, > this will probably necessitate switching to a 64-bit VM as the 32-bit sound > plug-ins are a giant pain. Given that even phone OSs are switching to > 64-bit, there may not be a need for a 32-bit Pharo. Of course, much of this > is already on the horizon. >>> >>> As the new year begins, I'll once again be coding in Pharo and look > forward to it. I'm really hopeful about the future. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> -- >>> Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. >>> http://www.je77.com/ >>> Skype ID: jochenrick > > >

Jan. 12, 2015

R: R: from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk

by Lorenzo Schiavina

Hi Sven, I find your observations absolutely reasonable; anyway, my point is to show the difference between "object" number and "normal" (I mean integer and floating point you find in "normal" languages)number. I have not seen the problem for many years so, maybe, at present is not the same, but I remember how I was surprised the first time I realized that I have not the floating point barrier using Smalltalk! It was in this moment that I felt that Smalltalk "is" the language! Ciao Lorenzo -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Sven Van Caekenberghe Inviato: lunedÃ¬ 12 gennaio 2015 09:48 A: Pharo Development List Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] R: from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk > On 12 Jan 2015, at 09:15, Lorenzo Schiavina <lorenzo(a)edor.it> wrote: > > Hi, > > instead of using the trivial 2 + 2 as ST example, for many years I have found more impressive: 50000 factorial printString size and then to show factorial method, that is very easy to understand. > IMHO it is STÂs essence of innovation and power. What about showing/explaining (progressive complexity) 123 factorial. 123 factorial numberOfDigits. 123 factorial primeFactors. 123 factorial primeFactors reduce: [ :x :y | x * y ]. And in the last inspector self = 123 factorial The video was pretty good, but I would never start discussing precedence rules in this type of presentation and certainly not using plain arithmetic. > > Lorenzo > > Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Sebastian Sastre > Inviato: venerdÃ¬ 9 gennaio 2015 19:07 > A: Pharo Development List > Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] from 2009's The "death" of Smalltalk to 2014's But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk > > Hi Jochen, > > have in mind that the talk you referred is from 2009 and many controversial things happened in the Ruby community at that time. > > Coming closer to today, we just had this presentation which presents Smalltalk better than many Smalltalkers IÂve heard! > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGaKZBr0ga4 > > Want to show off smalltalk to non-smalltalker audiences in an effective way? watch and learn! > > > > >> On Jan 9, 2015, at 3:37 PM, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0 and had a few comments that I thought I would share. >> >> First, there is a real opportunity for Smalltalk to come back in the guise of Pharo. Steph and Marcus are doing a great job providing leadership towards that end and the community is great. Second, we need to be careful in spreading the word. Slowly but surely (the current Pharo approach) is a great approach as it allows really building something worth spreading before trying to get everyone into it. If it spreads too quickly, bad API or immature toolkits will become ingrained and flaws will be apparent. The books, websites, etc. are really good things to get right before trying to get others into it; they are already very good. Third, if you want to really spread Smalltalk, then the fundamentals that newcomers experience need to be without obvious flaws. From personal experience, I can tell you that BitBlt rendering makes newbies think that Pharo is a toy language. Switching to Athens rendering is therefore tremendously important for adoption. Package management really needs to be cleaned up. There needs to be a simple way to merge resources (bitmaps, audio, external files) into the codebase. Simple audio needs to work on all platforms. This may seem trivial but audio is one of the simplest things that newcomers want to do. From a Linux perspective, this will probably necessitate switching to a 64-bit VM as the 32-bit sound plug-ins are a giant pain. Given that even phone OSs are switching to 64-bit, there may not be a need for a 32-bit Pharo. Of course, much of this is already on the horizon. >> >> As the new year begins, I'll once again be coding in Pharo and look forward to it. I'm really hopeful about the future. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jeff >> >> -- >> Jochen "Jeff" Rick, Ph.D. >> http://www.je77.com/ >> Skype ID: jochenrick

Jan. 12, 2015