January 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by horrido

As I've written elsewhere, I believe the TIOBE index is plain rubbish. Much of their rankings make no sense to me whatsoever. Langpop.corger.nl <http://langpop.corger.nl/> is my "go to" website for language rankings. It's not perfect, but it makes a whole lot more sense to me. Scala, Groovy, and Clojure are not "ultimate failures." Heck, they're doing at least as well as Go, my second favourite language of all time. (Go is red-hot in China. Go has an enviable set of "standard" libraries.) I agree that Java is our greatest foe. We are "300" against its Xerxes. That's why I am sanguine about Redline â we need it! kilon.alios wrote > Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or > LANGPOP > or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based > languages > . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only > language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near > as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual > Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers > are > just different in only few percentage units. > > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html > > http://langpop.com/ > > Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure , > one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but > anywhere, > in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in > top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise > and praise. > > I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and > ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python > world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention. > > So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and > demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons > of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the > assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start > using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem > more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to > abandon Java any time soon. > > So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated. > > The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse. > > So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal. > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta < > craig@ > > wrote: > >> >> > Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can >> > also get you bitten. :) >> >> Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved. >> >> >> -C >> >> -- >> Craig Latta >> netjam.org >> +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) >> + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) >> >> >> -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799716.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Yes, it is very alive: 20 commits in year or so. Pharo 4 has about 1700 in about the same time (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core) And that is just one silly, inaccurate metric. My point is, there are a couple of great Smalltalk implementations that contain an incredible number of man-years of effort in their images (the best being Pharo of course, but I am biased ;-), we can only achieve a high quality platform by working together. The number of different competences needed to successfully build a *COMPLETE* software platform can *NEVER* be achieved by 'a couple of guys' let alone one individual. Now, it is not that they can not do so, of course they can, we need wild and crazy ideas and research, but it is just wrong to see such experiments as what should be promoted now. IMHO, of course. > On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:19, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo: > https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc> > > James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website. > > > Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote >> A blank. >> >> Nothing happened to this project in more than a year >> >> https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master >> >> It is mostly vapourware and has no users. >> >> People following the links on the article will soon find out. >> >> Just sad. >> >>> On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido < > >> horrido.hobbies@ > >> > wrote: >>> >>> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sm… >>> <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html> >>> >>> Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed! >>> >>> This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word >>> about the campaign as far and wide as I could. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>> Nabble.com. >>> > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by horrido

I agree. I'm excited by Redline. We really do need a Smalltalk presence on the JVM. The JVM is the closest thing we have right now to a "standard" enterprise platform. (I guess I should mention .NET too, but I hate Windows lock-in.) Java is the strongest language here, but Scala, Groovy, and Clojure have some measure of success. sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com wrote >> On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Craig Latta < > craig@ > > wrote: >> >> Hi Sven-- >> >>> Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly > >> vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the >>> article will soon find out. >> >> Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest. >> > > totally +1 > > The guy only needs 4K and this gets to 1.0? > > Weâre nutz if that doesnât happen -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799708.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTInspector and TxWorkspace does not work well in Spur images

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Ok thanks :-). You're quick for sure :-). Now who maintains TxWorkspace ? huhum... 2015-01-15 15:21 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Thanks for noting this. > > Could you open explicit issues for that? > > #withSmalltalkSearch is definitely just a convenience that was implemented > before Opal so we can just change it without any problems. Just to show how > responsive we are, both me and Andrei independently committed a fix for > this 1 minute ago :). > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:15 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Right now there is support for Opal but not for the old Compiler in Spur >> images. GTInspector and TxWorkspace does direct references to the old >> compiler in Pharo-40445, for example, >> in GLMListingPresentation>>#withSmalltalkSearch. >> >> This is a pain because I am using spur images for my developments and I >> can't use some features of GTInspector. >> >> In addition, the old Compiler will be removed by default from the image >> in the next 6 months, so these features will not work in non spur images >> soon. >> >> Compiler references can be replaced, for example, by "self class >> compiler" or "Smalltalk compiler" depending on which compiler you want (one >> specific to the class with the specific class settings or a generic one). >> >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Jan. 15, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 9e732d: 40446

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/4.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 9e732d12e2f0f04a05655405ad58053a5dd10824 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/9e732d12e2f0f04a05655405… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2015-01-15 (Thu, 15 Jan 2015) Changed paths: A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script446.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40446.st M ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M Text-Edition.package/SmalltalkEditor.class/instance/menu messages/sendersOfIt.st M Traits.package/TClass.class/instance/class variables/addClassVariable_.st Log Message: ----------- 40446 14733 do not check for coding convention on addClassVariable: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14733 14731 Fixing DNU binding in GT and Nautilus https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14731 http://files.pharo.org/image/40/40446.zip

Jan. 15, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/40446 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTInspector and TxWorkspace does not work well in Spur images

by Tudor Girba

Thanks for noting this. Could you open explicit issues for that? #withSmalltalkSearch is definitely just a convenience that was implemented before Opal so we can just change it without any problems. Just to show how responsive we are, both me and Andrei independently committed a fix for this 1 minute ago :). Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:15 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Right now there is support for Opal but not for the old Compiler in Spur > images. GTInspector and TxWorkspace does direct references to the old > compiler in Pharo-40445, for example, > in GLMListingPresentation>>#withSmalltalkSearch. > > This is a pain because I am using spur images for my developments and I > can't use some features of GTInspector. > > In addition, the old Compiler will be removed by default from the image in > the next 6 months, so these features will not work in non spur images soon. > > Compiler references can be replaced, for example, by "self class compiler" > or "Smalltalk compiler" depending on which compiler you want (one specific > to the class with the specific class settings or a generic one). > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTInspector and TxWorkspace does not work well in Spur images

by Andrei Chis

I removed that reference to Compiler from GTInspector. It will be intergated in the next GTool version. Cheers, Andrei On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:15 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Right now there is support for Opal but not for the old Compiler in Spur > images. GTInspector and TxWorkspace does direct references to the old > compiler in Pharo-40445, for example, > in GLMListingPresentation>>#withSmalltalkSearch. > > This is a pain because I am using spur images for my developments and I > can't use some features of GTInspector. > > In addition, the old Compiler will be removed by default from the image in > the next 6 months, so these features will not work in non spur images soon. > > Compiler references can be replaced, for example, by "self class compiler" > or "Smalltalk compiler" depending on which compiler you want (one specific > to the class with the specific class settings or a generic one). > > > >

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by horrido

Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo: https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc> James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website. Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > A blank. > > Nothing happened to this project in more than a year > > https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master > > It is mostly vapourware and has no users. > > People following the links on the article will soon find out. > > Just sad. > >> On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: >> >> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sm… >> <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-smalltalk-jvm-worlds.html> >> >> Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed! >> >> This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word >> about the campaign as far and wide as I could. >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2015

GTInspector and TxWorkspace does not work well in Spur images

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Right now there is support for Opal but not for the old Compiler in Spur images. GTInspector and TxWorkspace does direct references to the old compiler in Pharo-40445, for example, in GLMListingPresentation>>#withSmalltalkSearch. This is a pain because I am using spur images for my developments and I can't use some features of GTInspector. In addition, the old Compiler will be removed by default from the image in the next 6 months, so these features will not work in non spur images soon. Compiler references can be replaced, for example, by "self class compiler" or "Smalltalk compiler" depending on which compiler you want (one specific to the class with the specific class settings or a generic one).

Jan. 15, 2015