January 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by stepharo

+1 Stef > I wonder if it would make sense to add a "Smalltalk-talk" mailing list... > I am sure ESUG could host that. >

Jan. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by Ben Coman

thanks Richard. On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 8:11 AM, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I'm moving all discussions related to the Smalltalk Renaissance Program to > the *Pharo Smalltalk Users* forum where I think it more properly belongs. > > My original reasoning for choosing the *Pharo Smalltalk Developers* forum > was because I wanted to reach out to /the developer community who are a > vital part of the campaign/. But I suppose this forum should be reserved > strictly for Pharo-specific development issues. > > The Pharo Smalltalk Users forum sounds more general in nature. That's where > we should be talking about Smalltalk and the PR campaign. > > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote > > I think we *really* need a smalltalk-talk mailing listâ¦ > > > >> On 16 Jan 2015, at 05:44, kilon alios < > > > kilon.alios@ > > > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> "I would like to remind people that the aim of the Pharo project is more > >> ambitious than the Smalltalk one" > >> > >> I would like to hear this grand plan of Pharo, where is it ? Where is > the > >> official roadmap ? What are the goals that the core development team > >> agree on ? Why are such a secret and I have never seen them discussed > >> here or anywhere on the internet. > >> > >> I would not call Pharo odd, Pharo is diffirent but not that diffirent. > It > >> offers me a way to code that I prefer over python , but I would not call > >> my experience coding with pharo radically different compared to python > >> coding. Smalltalk used to be the Purple Cow no doubt when it first came > >> out , so many new concepts and ideas that were far apart from anything > >> remotely similar. But nowdays the smalltalk paradigm has been embraced > in > >> several fronts , languages and IDEs are moving closer and closer. > >> > >> It took python 24 years to get as popular as it is nowdays, the most > >> popular languages have a similar lifespan if not more in some cases. Its > >> a really long process and its full of compromises and ugly truths. > >> > >> I also dont like the fact that Pharo calls itself "Smalltalk inspired" > >> its an insult to people who put an effort into Smalltalk by spending > >> hours making code. You cannot be "Smalltalk inspired" by forking code , > >> your at best "Smalltalk based" and that makes you Smalltalk. Ruby can > >> call itself "Smalltalk inspired" , Pharo cannot. This shows to me a very > >> flawed mentality inside the heads of those Pharoers that believe this, > >> its shows me fear , its shows me embarrassment, it shows me weakness. > >> > >> I would prefer it if Pharo was advertising itself as a modern Smalltalk > >> implementation as a project that lives true to the Smalltalk philosophy > >> and moves forward. Instead here we are calling Smalltalk "less > ambitious" > >> , why ? Innovativing more than any other language have done so , is > not > >> ambitious enough for you ? > >> > >> I do believe in Pharo If I did not I would not contribute but I would > >> prefer it without all the hype. Innovate all you want , code whatever > >> makes you happy, live your dream but also respect the dreams of others, > >> especially when you base your success on their success. And yes I will > >> dare say it , Smalltalk has been extremely succesful in many fronts , > far > >> more than Pharo currently is. > >> > >> PS: Just a clarification because people love to put words on other > people > >> mouths, I never said that languages like Clojure and Scheme has been > >> miserable failures generally, but based on the hype of how popular they > >> will become. Both Clojure and Sceme are great language with continuously > >> expanding communities . I was merely wanted to point out how hype does > >> not help and there was tons of hype when Java allowed for the creation > of > >> those languages. Jython for example is one of the oldest Java languages > >> (2001), and there was tons of hype when the project started that Jython > >> could become at worst an equal to Cpython on terms of popularity and > even > >> more popular than Java at best. Sun even funded the development of > >> Jython back in 2008. > >> > >> I admire what the creator of Redline done as I admire the effort that > has > >> been invested on both Pharo and Squeak. Its really hard to make a > >> competitive product in a world so complex and so demanding as the one we > >> live now. I do believe in Pharo and I hope the best for it but even > Pharo > >> never makes it to the top 20 most popular languages even in 30 years I > >> wont lose my sleep over it. I love Pharo for what it is, and not what it > >> may become. > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4800113.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Jan. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by horrido

I'm moving all discussions related to the Smalltalk Renaissance Program to the *Pharo Smalltalk Users* forum where I think it more properly belongs. My original reasoning for choosing the *Pharo Smalltalk Developers* forum was because I wanted to reach out to /the developer community who are a vital part of the campaign/. But I suppose this forum should be reserved strictly for Pharo-specific development issues. The Pharo Smalltalk Users forum sounds more general in nature. That's where we should be talking about Smalltalk and the PR campaign. Marcus Denker-4 wrote > I think we *really* need a smalltalk-talk mailing listâ¦ > >> On 16 Jan 2015, at 05:44, kilon alios < > kilon.alios@ > > wrote: >> >> >> "I would like to remind people that the aim of the Pharo project is more >> ambitious than the Smalltalk one" >> >> I would like to hear this grand plan of Pharo, where is it ? Where is the >> official roadmap ? What are the goals that the core development team >> agree on ? Why are such a secret and I have never seen them discussed >> here or anywhere on the internet. >> >> I would not call Pharo odd, Pharo is diffirent but not that diffirent. It >> offers me a way to code that I prefer over python , but I would not call >> my experience coding with pharo radically different compared to python >> coding. Smalltalk used to be the Purple Cow no doubt when it first came >> out , so many new concepts and ideas that were far apart from anything >> remotely similar. But nowdays the smalltalk paradigm has been embraced in >> several fronts , languages and IDEs are moving closer and closer. >> >> It took python 24 years to get as popular as it is nowdays, the most >> popular languages have a similar lifespan if not more in some cases. Its >> a really long process and its full of compromises and ugly truths. >> >> I also dont like the fact that Pharo calls itself "Smalltalk inspired" >> its an insult to people who put an effort into Smalltalk by spending >> hours making code. You cannot be "Smalltalk inspired" by forking code , >> your at best "Smalltalk based" and that makes you Smalltalk. Ruby can >> call itself "Smalltalk inspired" , Pharo cannot. This shows to me a very >> flawed mentality inside the heads of those Pharoers that believe this, >> its shows me fear , its shows me embarrassment, it shows me weakness. >> >> I would prefer it if Pharo was advertising itself as a modern Smalltalk >> implementation as a project that lives true to the Smalltalk philosophy >> and moves forward. Instead here we are calling Smalltalk "less ambitious" >> , why ? Innovativing more than any other language have done so , is not >> ambitious enough for you ? >> >> I do believe in Pharo If I did not I would not contribute but I would >> prefer it without all the hype. Innovate all you want , code whatever >> makes you happy, live your dream but also respect the dreams of others, >> especially when you base your success on their success. And yes I will >> dare say it , Smalltalk has been extremely succesful in many fronts , far >> more than Pharo currently is. >> >> PS: Just a clarification because people love to put words on other people >> mouths, I never said that languages like Clojure and Scheme has been >> miserable failures generally, but based on the hype of how popular they >> will become. Both Clojure and Sceme are great language with continuously >> expanding communities . I was merely wanted to point out how hype does >> not help and there was tons of hype when Java allowed for the creation of >> those languages. Jython for example is one of the oldest Java languages >> (2001), and there was tons of hype when the project started that Jython >> could become at worst an equal to Cpython on terms of popularity and even >> more popular than Java at best. Sun even funded the development of >> Jython back in 2008. >> >> I admire what the creator of Redline done as I admire the effort that has >> been invested on both Pharo and Squeak. Its really hard to make a >> competitive product in a world so complex and so demanding as the one we >> live now. I do believe in Pharo and I hope the best for it but even Pharo >> never makes it to the top 20 most popular languages even in 30 years I >> wont lose my sleep over it. I love Pharo for what it is, and not what it >> may become. >> >> -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4800113.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 17, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo4] 450: Spotter version 1.0.7 and GTools version 2.0.9

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Super, things are moving so fast ... > On 16 Jan 2015, at 22:18, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hi, > > #450 is online with Spotter version 1.0.7 and GTools version 2.0.9 containing: > > 14636: spotter: remap cmd+enter to shift+enter > 14641: spot on global vars > 14741: GTInspector: add simple slot support > 14252: Make collections browsable again in the tools > 14722: Disable FreeType gives MNU and RMOD in GTools > 14711: The Playground print popper should allow for inserting the text in the editor > 14587: deleting the whole text in the inspector pane throws SubscriptOutOfBounds > 14515: Damaged configurations in the image > > Marcus

Jan. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Context status 2015-01-16

by Chris Muller

That sounds awesome Craig, congratulations. If you ever do a video of a reasonably-sized imprinting experiment onto your core-classes image from a modern Squeak image, I will be very interested to see it! On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:01 PM, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > > Hoi all-- > > Context[1] is the umbrella project for Naiad (a distributed module > system for all Smalltalks[2]), Spoon (a minimal object memory that > provides the starting point for Naiad), and Lightning (a > remote-messaging framework which performs live serialization, used by > Naiad for moving methods and other objects between systems). I intend > for it to be a future release of Squeak, and a launcher and module > system for all the other Smalltalks. I'm writing Context apps for cloud > computing, web services, and distributed computation. > > Commits b7676ba2cc and later of the Context git repo[3] have: > > - Support for installable object memories as git submodule repos. > > - Submodule repos for memories for each of the known Smalltalk > dialects, with Naiad support pre-loaded. I'm currently working on > the submodules for Squeak[4] and Pharo[5]. > > - A web-browser-based console for launching and managing object > memories. > > - A WebDAV-based virtual filesystem that enables Smalltalk to appear > as a network-attached storage device, and mappings of the system > to that filesystem that make Smalltalk accessible from external > text editors (e.g., for editing code, managing processes and > object memories). > > - Remote code and process browsers. > > Live discussion at [6]. Mailing list at [7]. The newsgroup is > gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.context. > > > Thanks for checking it out! > > -C > > [1] http://thiscontext.com > [2] http://thiscontext.com/a-detailed-naiad-description > [3] https://github.com/ccrraaiigg/context > [4] https://github.com/ccrraaiigg/3EAD9A45-F65F-445F-89C1-4CA0A9D5C2F8 > [5] https://github.com/ccrraaiigg/CFE10A14-D883-4ACE-990A-0DDA86AA362B > [6] http://squeak.slack.com > [7] mailto:context@lists.squeakfoundation.org > > -- > Craig Latta > netjam.org > +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) > + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) > >

Jan. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Fixing DNU binding in GT and Nautilus

by kilon alios

Thank you Stef On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:57 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > DoesNotUnderstand > Le 15/1/15 19:37, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > > what DNU means ? is it the same as MNU ? > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Should be Alain's repo: >> http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/AlainPlantec/Rubric/main/ >> If you do not have access I can commit the change for you. >> >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >> >>> The fix is in 4.0 446 but only for SmalltalkEditor. Where should we put >>> the fix for RubSmalltalkEditor? >>> >>> 2015-01-14 22:49 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: >>> >>>> Thanks marcus >>>> >>>> I just open another one :( because I houtgh that my mail did go >>>> through. I will close it. >>>> >>>> Le 14/1/15 13:02, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : >>>> >>>> I have opened an issue for this: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14731/Fixing-DNU-binding-in-GT-and-Nautil… >>>> >>>> >>>> On 13 Jan 2015, at 20:11, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> in nautilus method pane and GT, when I select a global variable such as >>>> >>>> SystemOrganization and press command B + N >>>> >>>> I get DNU binding. >>>> Apparently this DNU only happen when the name does not match any class >>>> substring >>>> Transcript or Undeclared will not raise an error because we have >>>> classes having name matching the expression. >>>> >>>> Fixed included. >>>> >>>> PS: I'm dead after 1h30 train delay (after giving 6 hours lecture) >>>> today. So this mail will be sent whenever I get connected. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> <FixDNUBinding.cs> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >

Jan. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Fixing DNU binding in GT and Nautilus

by stepharo

DoesNotUnderstand Le 15/1/15 19:37, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > what DNU means ? is it the same as MNU ? > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Andrei Chis > <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com <mailto:chisvasileandrei@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Should be Alain's repo: > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/AlainPlantec/Rubric/main/ > If you do not have access I can commit the change for you. > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de > <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote: > > The fix is in 4.0 446 but only for SmalltalkEditor. Where > should we put the fix for RubSmalltalkEditor? > > 2015-01-14 22:49 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>: > > Thanks marcus > > I just open another one :( because I houtgh that my mail > did go through. I will close it. > > Le 14/1/15 13:02, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : >> I have opened an issue for this: >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14731/Fixing-DNU-binding-in-GT-and-Nautil… >> >> >>> On 13 Jan 2015, at 20:11, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr >>> <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> in nautilus method pane and GT, when I select a global >>> variable such as >>> >>> SystemOrganization and press command B + N >>> >>> I get DNU binding. >>> Apparently this DNU only happen when the name does not >>> match any class substring >>> Transcript or Undeclared will not raise an error because >>> we have classes having name matching the expression. >>> >>> Fixed included. >>> >>> PS: I'm dead after 1h30 train delay (after giving 6 >>> hours lecture) today. So this mail will be sent whenever >>> I get connected. >>> >>> Stef >>> <FixDNUBinding.cs> >> > > > >

Jan. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTInspector and TxWorkspace does not work well in Spur images

by stepharo

Le 15/1/15 15:47, ClÃ©ment Bera a Ã©crit : > Ok thanks :-). You're quick for sure :-). > > Now who maintains TxWorkspace ? > > huhum... me > > 2015-01-15 15:21 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com > <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>>: > > Thanks for noting this. > > Could you open explicit issues for that? > > #withSmalltalkSearch is definitely just a convenience that was > implemented before Opal so we can just change it without any > problems. Just to show how responsive we are, both me and Andrei > independently committed a fix for this 1 minute ago :). > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:15 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera > <bera.clement(a)gmail.com <mailto:bera.clement@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Right now there is support for Opal but not for the old > Compiler in Spur images. GTInspector and TxWorkspace does > direct references to the old compiler in Pharo-40445, for > example, in GLMListingPresentation>>#withSmalltalkSearch. > > This is a pain because I am using spur images for my > developments and I can't use some features of GTInspector. > > In addition, the old Compiler will be removed by default from > the image in the next 6 months, so these features will not > work in non spur images soon. > > Compiler references can be replaced, for example, by "self > class compiler" or "Smalltalk compiler" depending on which > compiler you want (one specific to the class with the specific > class settings or a generic one). > > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow" > >

Jan. 16, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTInspector and TxWorkspace does not work well in Spur images

by stepharo

I will change it. Le 15/1/15 15:15, ClÃ©ment Bera a Ã©crit : > Right now there is support for Opal but not for the old Compiler in > Spur images. GTInspector and TxWorkspace does direct references to the > old compiler in Pharo-40445, for example, > in GLMListingPresentation>>#withSmalltalkSearch. > > This is a pain because I am using spur images for my developments and > I can't use some features of GTInspector. > > In addition, the old Compiler will be removed by default from the > image in the next 6 months, so these features will not work in non > spur images soon. > > Compiler references can be replaced, for example, by "self class > compiler" or "Smalltalk compiler" depending on which compiler you want > (one specific to the class with the specific class settings or a > generic one). > > >

Jan. 16, 2015

[Pharo4] 450: Spotter version 1.0.7 and GTools version 2.0.9

by Marcus Denker

Hi, #450 is online with Spotter version 1.0.7 and GTools version 2.0.9 containing: 14636: spotter: remap cmd+enter to shift+enter 14641: spot on global vars 14741: GTInspector: add simple slot support 14252: Make collections browsable again in the tools 14722: Disable FreeType gives MNU and RMOD in GTools 14711: The Playground print popper should allow for inserting the text in the editor 14587: deleting the whole text in the inspector pane throws SubscriptOutOfBounds 14515: Damaged configurations in the image Marcus

Jan. 16, 2015