August 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Esug-list] Quitting the community

by Maarten Mostert

No great things are achieved without great characters, Stephan has been doing a great long term effort of maintaining research budgets for Smalltalk and pushing a viable open source solution for it while the situation was pretty difficult. Like many of us he has some rough edges to and we shouldnât forget that each of us is driven by ambition, fear and frustration. I really respect Stephan, but I also sympathise with you as I did with Janko some monthâs ago. Nobody cares about any details, what we do care about however is that you would be lost for Smalltalk after such a great job !!!! There is so much more to Smalltalk then just Pharo and some of these move considerably â¦. Hope you reconsider at least that part of your decision. Take care, @+Maarten, On 18 Aug 2014, at 11:36, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Thanks for letting us know. > > I am sorry you feel this way, but I believe your presentation of the situation is both unfair and unfortunate. You are obviously referring to issues that are of personal nature, and as outsiders we are left with only an ugly feeling without being able to either understand or fix anything. > > I was actually having fun until your email, and as far as I can tell, others were having fun as well. I am not sure what the intention of your email was, but at least for me, your mail did manage to spoil the fun for a second. > > I appreciate the work you put in Pharo, I respect your decision, but I do not sympathize with your behavior. > > Good luck, > Doru > > > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello guys, > > I am sending this email to explain why I am quiting the Pharo community, > as well as the Smalltalk community. > > I can not bear Stephane Ducasse's behavior anymore whether at a public > level or a private level. > > It seems that his ego is preventing him from being able to have a discussion > without overreacting, being agressive, or insulting. > > I can not approve how Stephane is constantly talking behind my back to unleash > his irrationnal wrath and to provide his very own version of the facts. > > I can not see how this can lead to a peaceful and respectful community > where we can all have fun building a future. > > Therefore I will not be part of this project anymore, since the way Stephane > is acting is taking away all the fun I can have interacting with all of you. > > It was a hard decision to take, but I can not be part of a community led > by someone whose behaviour is going against all my principles. > > I wish to all of you to have fun, and keep me in touch > if you want to have a beer someday ;) > > Ben > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Aug. 19, 2014

I want to remove zeroconf for 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, right now there zeroconf scripts for pharo 1.2-1.4 that I do not think anyone is using it. Can I remove them? cheers, Esteban

Aug. 19, 2014

example custom mouse events

by Ben Coman

It took a bit of hunting around to discover how to use the custom hooks for mouse event, and I needed to make some examples to prove how it worked. I thought others might find this interesting. It just outputs to Transcript for each of the following events. Check the class comments for usage. * handlesMouseDown - mouseDown, mouseUp, mouseMove, startDrag, click, doubleClick, doubleClickTimeout. * handlesMouseStillDown - mouseStillDown. * handlesMouseOver - mouseEnter, mouseLeave. * handlesMouseOverDragging - mouseEnterDragging, mouseLeaveDragging. Anyone know anything more to add? cheers -ben

Aug. 19, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Quitting the community

by phil＠highoctane.be

ReactiveHolder ? Phil On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It is well to remember Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message, the > thesis of which is that the nature of any medium has more importance than > the content if that medium in shaping its effects in the users of that > medium. > > On the medium side, email is devoid of nuance, unless smattered with > emoticons, themselves a very limited sub-medium that many of us employ only > partially. It is /so/ common to see an escalation of hurt emerge from an > email thread started by a misreading of an email that imputed offense when > none was intended. > > On the message side, names are important. Sentences become > incomprehensible if nouns are arbitrarily rebound. ValueHolder may not be > the greatest name, just as apareille a photo is clumsier than camera, but > we can't just change them to frotboggle or bungswallop just because they > sound more poetic. ReactiveVariable is criticizes me on the basis that it > is an object that contains a variable, not a variable itself, and garner > misleading, /and/ that it is a renaming of an (albeit imperfectly) already > named concept, ValueHolder, and if one doesn't want to unnecessarily break > others' understanding and much older Pharo and non-Pharo code that uses it > one is better leaving sleeping dogs lie. > > HTH > Eliot (phone) > > On Aug 18, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Benjamin < > benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hello guys, > > > > I am sending this email to explain why I am quiting the Pharo community, > > as well as the Smalltalk community. > > > > I can not bear Stephane Ducasse's behavior anymore whether at a public > > level or a private level. > > > > It seems that his ego is preventing him from being able to have a > discussion > > without overreacting, being agressive, or insulting. > > > > I can not approve how Stephane is constantly talking behind my back to > unleash > > his irrationnal wrath and to provide his very own version of the facts. > > > > I can not see how this can lead to a peaceful and respectful community > > where we can all have fun building a future. > > > > Therefore I will not be part of this project anymore, since the way > Stephane > > is acting is taking away all the fun I can have interacting with all of > you. > > > > It was a hard decision to take, but I can not be part of a community led > > by someone whose behaviour is going against all my principles. > > > > I wish to all of you to have fun, and keep me in touch > > if you want to have a beer someday ;) > > > > Ben > >

Aug. 19, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Quitting the community

by Pavel Krivanek

So why not simply ReactiveValueHolder? Who will look for ValueHolder will find it, who will look for reactive variables will find it and it well describes the purpose of the class ;-) Cheers, -- Pavel 2014-08-19 9:25 GMT+02:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > Sure but the new thing was NewValueHolder. > > ValueHolder per se doesn't look like impacted. > > Well I saw some OldValueHolder proposal but it seemed strange to me. > > How would you name the new thing? > > Is there some pattern for that kind of case? > > Phil > > Le 19 aoÃ»t 2014 07:52, "Eliot Miranda" <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > >> >> It is well to remember Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message, the >> thesis of which is that the nature of any medium has more importance than >> the content if that medium in shaping its effects in the users of that >> medium. >> >> On the medium side, email is devoid of nuance, unless smattered with >> emoticons, themselves a very limited sub-medium that many of us employ only >> partially. It is /so/ common to see an escalation of hurt emerge from an >> email thread started by a misreading of an email that imputed offense when >> none was intended. >> >> On the message side, names are important. Sentences become >> incomprehensible if nouns are arbitrarily rebound. ValueHolder may not be >> the greatest name, just as apareille a photo is clumsier than camera, but we >> can't just change them to frotboggle or bungswallop just because they sound >> more poetic. ReactiveVariable is criticizes me on the basis that it is an >> object that contains a variable, not a variable itself, and garner >> misleading, /and/ that it is a renaming of an (albeit imperfectly) already >> named concept, ValueHolder, and if one doesn't want to unnecessarily break >> others' understanding and much older Pharo and non-Pharo code that uses it >> one is better leaving sleeping dogs lie. >> >> HTH >> Eliot (phone) >> >> On Aug 18, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Benjamin >> <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Hello guys, >> > >> > I am sending this email to explain why I am quiting the Pharo community, >> > as well as the Smalltalk community. >> > >> > I can not bear Stephane Ducasse's behavior anymore whether at a public >> > level or a private level. >> > >> > It seems that his ego is preventing him from being able to have a >> > discussion >> > without overreacting, being agressive, or insulting. >> > >> > I can not approve how Stephane is constantly talking behind my back to >> > unleash >> > his irrationnal wrath and to provide his very own version of the facts. >> > >> > I can not see how this can lead to a peaceful and respectful community >> > where we can all have fun building a future. >> > >> > Therefore I will not be part of this project anymore, since the way >> > Stephane >> > is acting is taking away all the fun I can have interacting with all of >> > you. >> > >> > It was a hard decision to take, but I can not be part of a community led >> > by someone whose behaviour is going against all my principles. >> > >> > I wish to all of you to have fun, and keep me in touch >> > if you want to have a beer someday ;) >> > >> > Ben >>

Aug. 19, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Quitting the community

by phil＠highoctane.be

Sure but the new thing was NewValueHolder. ValueHolder per se doesn't look like impacted. Well I saw some OldValueHolder proposal but it seemed strange to me. How would you name the new thing? Is there some pattern for that kind of case? Phil Le 19 aoÃ»t 2014 07:52, "Eliot Miranda" <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > It is well to remember Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message, the thesis of which is that the nature of any medium has more importance than the content if that medium in shaping its effects in the users of that medium. > > On the medium side, email is devoid of nuance, unless smattered with emoticons, themselves a very limited sub-medium that many of us employ only partially. It is /so/ common to see an escalation of hurt emerge from an email thread started by a misreading of an email that imputed offense when none was intended. > > On the message side, names are important. Sentences become incomprehensible if nouns are arbitrarily rebound. ValueHolder may not be the greatest name, just as apareille a photo is clumsier than camera, but we can't just change them to frotboggle or bungswallop just because they sound more poetic. ReactiveVariable is criticizes me on the basis that it is an object that contains a variable, not a variable itself, and garner misleading, /and/ that it is a renaming of an (albeit imperfectly) already named concept, ValueHolder, and if one doesn't want to unnecessarily break others' understanding and much older Pharo and non-Pharo code that uses it one is better leaving sleeping dogs lie. > > HTH > Eliot (phone) > > On Aug 18, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Benjamin < benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hello guys, > > > > I am sending this email to explain why I am quiting the Pharo community, > > as well as the Smalltalk community. > > > > I can not bear Stephane Ducasse's behavior anymore whether at a public > > level or a private level. > > > > It seems that his ego is preventing him from being able to have a discussion > > without overreacting, being agressive, or insulting. > > > > I can not approve how Stephane is constantly talking behind my back to unleash > > his irrationnal wrath and to provide his very own version of the facts. > > > > I can not see how this can lead to a peaceful and respectful community > > where we can all have fun building a future. > > > > Therefore I will not be part of this project anymore, since the way Stephane > > is acting is taking away all the fun I can have interacting with all of you. > > > > It was a hard decision to take, but I can not be part of a community led > > by someone whose behaviour is going against all my principles. > > > > I wish to all of you to have fun, and keep me in touch > > if you want to have a beer someday ;) > > > > Ben >

Aug. 19, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Quitting the community

by Eliot Miranda

It is well to remember Marshall McLuhan, The Medium is the Message, the thesis of which is that the nature of any medium has more importance than the content if that medium in shaping its effects in the users of that medium. On the medium side, email is devoid of nuance, unless smattered with emoticons, themselves a very limited sub-medium that many of us employ only partially. It is /so/ common to see an escalation of hurt emerge from an email thread started by a misreading of an email that imputed offense when none was intended. On the message side, names are important. Sentences become incomprehensible if nouns are arbitrarily rebound. ValueHolder may not be the greatest name, just as apareille a photo is clumsier than camera, but we can't just change them to frotboggle or bungswallop just because they sound more poetic. ReactiveVariable is criticizes me on the basis that it is an object that contains a variable, not a variable itself, and garner misleading, /and/ that it is a renaming of an (albeit imperfectly) already named concept, ValueHolder, and if one doesn't want to unnecessarily break others' understanding and much older Pharo and non-Pharo code that uses it one is better leaving sleeping dogs lie. HTH Eliot (phone) On Aug 18, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello guys, > > I am sending this email to explain why I am quiting the Pharo community, > as well as the Smalltalk community. > > I can not bear Stephane Ducasse's behavior anymore whether at a public > level or a private level. > > It seems that his ego is preventing him from being able to have a discussion > without overreacting, being agressive, or insulting. > > I can not approve how Stephane is constantly talking behind my back to unleash > his irrationnal wrath and to provide his very own version of the facts. > > I can not see how this can lead to a peaceful and respectful community > where we can all have fun building a future. > > Therefore I will not be part of this project anymore, since the way Stephane > is acting is taking away all the fun I can have interacting with all of you. > > It was a hard decision to take, but I can not be part of a community led > by someone whose behaviour is going against all my principles. > > I wish to all of you to have fun, and keep me in touch > if you want to have a beer someday ;) > > Ben

Aug. 19, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Stack size for compiled methods (issue 13854 Crash/hang on array access)

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Nicolai, the stack starts as deep as the method's number of temporaries, which is the sum of the number of arguments plus the number of temporary variables that can exist in the stack plus one if there are any closed-over temporary variables that need to be in an indirection vector. Then as execution proceeds the receiver and arguments are pushed on the stack, and are replaced by intermediate results by sends it by the create array bytecode. Any blocks within the method start with the sum of their number of arguments, their number of copied values (temp values they access read-only) plus their local temporaries. In the method and each block scope stack depth is the hence the sum of the number of temporaries plus the max execution depth. And the method's depth is the max of the method and that of any blocks within it. Then if that depth is 17 or greater it gets the LargeFrame flag set which means the VM allocates a 56 slot context, the compiler raising an error if the depth is greater than 56. HTH Eliot (phone) On Aug 18, 2014, at 11:32 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > Hi, > > on what depends the stack size for a compiled method? > I try to figure out, why the old compiler and the opal compile generate different > compiled method headers. > I think this comes from a wrong stack size computed by opal, but I can not figure > out how the stack size is computed. > > Old Compiler > PolygonMorph>>#lineSegmentsDo: > header -> "primitive: 0 > numArgs: 1 > numTemps: 3 > numLiterals: 23 > frameSize: 56" > > Opal compiler: > PolygonMorph>>#lineSegmentsDo: > header -> "primitive: 0 > numArgs: 1 > numTemps: 3 > numLiterals: 23 > frameSize: 16" >

Aug. 19, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Quitting the community

by stepharo

Probably not but I do not know. Now our team should not be a place that you leave without saying bye and this affected me when ben left in end of May. > Yes, this is where it all began. For the record, the name change was my > idea, not Ben's. I didn't think it was controversial - more of a question. > As you can see, it was discussed on the mailing list and, seeing no dissent, > Ben and I pushed the change. I too was sorry to waste the time making the > change, and wished someone would've spoken up on the mailing list, but I > realize we can't read and respond to every mail, so I let it go and moved > on. But is this really what the whole fight is about?! > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Quitting-the-community-tp4773730p4773795.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Aug. 19, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Quitting the community

by S Krish

This reminds me of my 3 year stint in a French CAD firm, where I was witness to many a technical tiff between a senior director and a really fresh out of college engineer which will look as if its a personal ego fight. But at the end of the day both will pick their bags and go off to have a beer / dinner together and come back next morning as good as friends they ever were. It taught me in my middle age, arguments over work should never spill over to personal ego. But life is short and all of us carry ourselves the way we are conditioned...! What is right and wrong, is mostly not cast in stone, but when it becomes contentious, it is just ok to give experience the right of way.. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:07 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > P.S. regardless.. about the subject, so, now > > Here's an example > > nil asValueHolder > > shall be refactored to > > nil asReactiveVariable > > ? > > sounds like a plan :) > ==== > > And yes, Ben, you are wrong, if you consider this as a personal attack. > This code smells, to say it politely. But i prefer to call it crap. > When i see such things, the only thing, which comes to my mind is: 'when > the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to treat everything as nail'. >

Aug. 19, 2014