July 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Can i be added to Pharo/Pharo40Inbox?

by Marcus Denker

On 16 Jul 2014, at 00:41, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras <vonbecmann(a)gmail.com> wrote: > hi all, > i don't have access to the inbox, could someone add me to the project, please? > my username is vonbecmann. > > MCSmalltalkhubRepository > owner: 'Pharo' > project: 'Pharo40Inbox' > user: '' > password: ââ Doneâ¦ we really need to fix the bug that makes the âpublicâ flag of the repo not persistentâ¦ Marcus

July 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] consideration of Smalltalk "DoIt"

by Eliot Miranda

On Jul 15, 2014, at 1:50 PM, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2014-07-15 17:30 GMT-03:00 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: >> 2014-07-15 20:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> I find the "... it" suffix obsolete. "Delete it", "Do it", "Print it", >>> etc. >>> >>> Maybe it made sense in the past, but today it feels weird. >>> There is no "Cut it", "Paste it", etc... nor similar in other software. >>> IMO, if the menu is contextual, the context already applies the "it" >>> (subject). > >> Did you notice "it" is only mentionned when you will evaluate (do it / print >> it / debug it / ... )? >> Otherwise, if it's just text editing there is no it. >> So there is a sort of logic. IMO that makes sense, because evaluating is a >> special action. > > I did notice. > > And I believe the "print-it", "do-it" and similar are there because of > historical reasons I don't know, but were carried over without > questioning it, maybe since ST-80 . :) > > Why make a distinction between copying text and > evaluating/profiling/debugging it? I only saw this in Smalltalk. ?? I'd be more than annoyed if copying the text "rm -rf *" evaluated it too... > > Esteban A. Maringolo >

July 16, 2014

Can i be added to Pharo/Pharo40Inbox?

by Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras

hi all, i don't have access to the inbox, could someone add me to the project, please? my username is vonbecmann. MCSmalltalkhubRepository owner: 'Pharo' project: 'Pharo40Inbox' user: '' password: '' Thanks. -- Bernardo E.C. Sent from a cheap desktop computer in South America.

July 15, 2014

[ANN] Ephestos - Using and Coding Blender from inside Pharo

by kilon alios

Its far from production ready but I am too excited to keep to myself. I present to you Ephestos. Ephestos is a socket bridge that communicates with Blender the most popular and most powerful open source 3d application. http://www.blender.org/ The goal is to expose Blender coders to the power of Pharo and Pharo to the power of Blender. As you can imagine the potential is huge but I rather talk what Ephestos can do already. Even though Ephestos is in total less than 200 lines of code it can already communicate with blender and affect blender properties. Blender properties are basically instance variables for any kind of blender object, 3d object, material, textures etc So already you can affect a huge deal of blender . Unfortunately Blender operators seem to crash Blender , probably I am doing something stupid that I will fix. Blender operators are for performing blender actions so they are very important. I have made a simple video demo of it that can be watched here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8igk9DoY6PU&feature=youtu.be To use it you need first the Blender addon which can be found here https://github.com/kilon/pyEphestos The code should be inside a folder named "pyEphestos" and placed in Blender addons directory which is located for Macos in Application Support/Blender/VersionsOfBlender/scripts/addons and in Windows should be in App Data/Roaming/..... or you can place it inside the blender folder in similar sub directory You also need the Pharo code which can be found here http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Ephestos/ As I said it is far from production ready , but it works. The good news is that the socket communication is blazing fast, at least compared to what I expected. I was able to perform 1000 connections under a second. And each connection carries a 1024 bytes messages , thats a lot of code. Should be possible to pass thousands of lines of code under a second to Blender. My only worry is blender itself since it tends to be very crashy in the areas I am pushing. By the way Always press esc after you enable Ephestos in Blender to close the socket or else it wont free it and next time you wont be able to open the socket and you will have to restart your OS. And do not make an error with the string passed . I need to add an exception for it so it wont crash blender.

July 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] consideration of Smalltalk "DoIt"

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-07-15 17:30 GMT-03:00 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > 2014-07-15 20:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > >> I find the "... it" suffix obsolete. "Delete it", "Do it", "Print it", >> etc. >> >> Maybe it made sense in the past, but today it feels weird. >> There is no "Cut it", "Paste it", etc... nor similar in other software. >> IMO, if the menu is contextual, the context already applies the "it" >> (subject). > Did you notice "it" is only mentionned when you will evaluate (do it / print > it / debug it / ... )? > Otherwise, if it's just text editing there is no it. > So there is a sort of logic. IMO that makes sense, because evaluating is a > special action. I did notice. And I believe the "print-it", "do-it" and similar are there because of historical reasons I don't know, but were carried over without questioning it, maybe since ST-80 . :) Why make a distinction between copying text and evaluating/profiling/debugging it? I only saw this in Smalltalk. Esteban A. Maringolo

July 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook

by GOUBIER Thierry

Then go for your enhanced workspace :) Making good tools in my experience takes a lot of time, refining details here and there, but it's really worth it because it changes the way you work. I can't relate too much to Emacs, I allways found it a too huge investment (shortcuts, configuration time) for the gain it could bring. Mind you, when I started programming heavily, it was in Smalltalk and Self, so maybe this is why ;) Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de kilon alios [kilon.alios(a)gmail.com] EnvoyÃ© : mardi 15 juillet 2014 22:37 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook Well at least for me , the one thing I don't like about Pharo is the "window hell" . Even with window groups , which by the way are a great addition , is easy to get lost and feel uncomfortable. As I said I am inspired by emacs , I like its workflow very much and it will be great if I manage to bring even a small part of the experience to pharo. My goal is not to make something monolithic from the code perspective but offer a unified user experience. I prefer my code as modular as it can be. Emacs after all is extremely modular. At worst I would end up with a slightly more powerful workspace and since workspace is my No1 tool I use to test and try code that is better than nothing :) On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:25 PM, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: I'm not sure about the replacing everything at once. Good tools doing exactly what they are intended for are great; the ability to switch easily from one tool to another allows for very focused work, where you switch from one task to another, and reduce your cognitive overhead because you don't have to bother with them until you need them. Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org>] de la part de kilon alios [kilon.alios(a)gmail.com<mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>] EnvoyÃ© : mardi 15 juillet 2014 20:25 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook I have tried to make something similar with Rubric example of Workspace. My dream is a Super Workspace to replace all IDE tools inside pharo, system browser, Monticello, inspector, debugger , versioner , etc inspired by emacs and of course ipython. I am still working on it from time to time, but its a low priority project for now. I am sure other people have similar goals so I am also interested in joining efforts. Also I am interested in visual coding so I am flirting with Phratch and wonder how Phratch would mix with my Super Workspace concept. There is certainly a lot of potential here. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 9:11 PM, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: Demo of what? New GUI, new text editor? Thierry ________________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org>] de la part de stepharo [stepharo(a)free.fr<mailto:stepharo@free.fr>] EnvoyÃ© : mardi 15 juillet 2014 20:00 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook Thierry I can tell you that I got a demo made by gary chambers and this is impressive and all done in Pharo. In addition with the new text model, it will really change the situation. Stef On 15/7/14 13:33, Goubier Thierry wrote: > I'm scanning a bit among scientific / computation languages (including > GUIs) and I'd like to know if some work has been done on interactive > notebooks gui concepts? > > I'm thinking of something like: http://ipython.org/notebook.html > > I know that the Pharo text editing capabilities are not up to that > kind of job, but I'd like to know if some would be interested in being > able to interact via that kind of development environment. > > Thierry

July 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook

by kilon alios

Well at least for me , the one thing I don't like about Pharo is the "window hell" . Even with window groups , which by the way are a great addition , is easy to get lost and feel uncomfortable. As I said I am inspired by emacs , I like its workflow very much and it will be great if I manage to bring even a small part of the experience to pharo. My goal is not to make something monolithic from the code perspective but offer a unified user experience. I prefer my code as modular as it can be. Emacs after all is extremely modular. At worst I would end up with a slightly more powerful workspace and since workspace is my No1 tool I use to test and try code that is better than nothing :) On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:25 PM, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > I'm not sure about the replacing everything at once. Good tools doing > exactly what they are intended for are great; the ability to switch easily > from one tool to another allows for very focused work, where you switch > from one task to another, and reduce your cognitive overhead because you > don't have to bother with them until you need them. > > Thierry > > ------------------------------ > *De :* Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de kilon > alios [kilon.alios(a)gmail.com] > *EnvoyÃ© :* mardi 15 juillet 2014 20:25 > > *Ã :* Pharo Development List > *Objet :* Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook > > I have tried to make something similar with Rubric example of > Workspace. My dream is a Super Workspace to replace all IDE tools inside > pharo, system browser, Monticello, inspector, debugger , versioner , etc > inspired by emacs and of course ipython. > > I am still working on it from time to time, but its a low priority > project for now. I am sure other people have similar goals so I am also > interested in joining efforts. > > Also I am interested in visual coding so I am flirting with Phratch and > wonder how Phratch would mix with my Super Workspace concept. There is > certainly a lot of potential here. > > > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 9:11 PM, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> > wrote: > >> Demo of what? New GUI, new text editor? >> >> Thierry >> ________________________________________ >> De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de >> stepharo [stepharo(a)free.fr] >> EnvoyÃ© : mardi 15 juillet 2014 20:00 >> Ã : Pharo Development List >> Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook >> >> Thierry >> >> I can tell you that I got a demo made by gary chambers and this is >> impressive and all done in Pharo. >> In addition with the new text model, it will really change the situation. >> >> Stef >> >> On 15/7/14 13:33, Goubier Thierry wrote: >> > I'm scanning a bit among scientific / computation languages (including >> > GUIs) and I'd like to know if some work has been done on interactive >> > notebooks gui concepts? >> > >> > I'm thinking of something like: http://ipython.org/notebook.html >> > >> > I know that the Pharo text editing capabilities are not up to that >> > kind of job, but I'd like to know if some would be interested in being >> > able to interact via that kind of development environment. >> > >> > Thierry >> >> >> >> >

July 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook

by GOUBIER Thierry

Hi Doru, I'd be interested, yes, especially if there is a way to hook or build IDEs for other languages / DSLs. And the underlying abstraction which would allow one to understand and manipulate how the stacked environments are linked to each other. Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de Tudor Girba [tudor(a)tudorgirba.com] EnvoyÃ© : mardi 15 juillet 2014 22:20 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook Hi, Indeed, this is where we want to go with the GTPlayground next :). The idea is to have multiple segments that can be previewed and that are stacked on one another. Modifying an upper segment leads to reevaluating the lower ones. @Thierry: would you like to join efforts? Cheers, Doru On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: Le 15/07/2014 14:05, Ben Coman a Ã©crit : Goubier Thierry wrote: I'm scanning a bit among scientific / computation languages (including GUIs) and I'd like to know if some work has been done on interactive notebooks gui concepts? I'm thinking of something like: http://ipython.org/notebook.html I know that the Pharo text editing capabilities are not up to that kind of job, but I'd like to know if some would be interested in being able to interact via that kind of development environment. Thierry I'd be very interested in that kind of feature. I'd imagine you have a number of separate text areas in one workspace that are evaluated in order of their origin. Yes, it seems to be the case in the example I was looking at. Sort of the recording of an interactive session with a terminal. Would be interesting to see if we can go back and edit. Only sad thing I see in the way it is presented: output is not part of the program. I recommend you take MathCAD for a test drive. http://www.ptc.com/product/mathcad/ I'll have a look, thanks! cheers, Ben -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92<tel:%2B33%20%280%29%201%2069%2008%2032%2092> / 83 95 -- www.tudorgirba.com<http://www.tudorgirba.com> "Every thing has its own flow"

July 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook

by GOUBIER Thierry

No worries. What I wrote in VW 20 years ago is not available anymore either ;) But it could have been used to build a interactive notebook :( Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com] EnvoyÃ© : mardi 15 juillet 2014 22:10 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Interactive Notebook 2014-07-15 17:34 GMT+02:00 Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>>: I've never seen that in VW. But your feedback is interesting; maybe there is something to look at. No, sorry for misunderstanding, it was closed source developments in VW...

July 15, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] consideration of Smalltalk "DoIt"

by Nicolas Cellier

2014-07-15 20:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > I find the "... it" suffix obsolete. "Delete it", "Do it", "Print it", etc. > > Maybe it made sense in the past, but today it feels weird. > > There is no "Cut it", "Paste it", etc... nor similar in other software. > IMO, if the menu is contextual, the context already applies the "it" > (subject). > > Regards. > > Did you notice "it" is only mentionned when you will evaluate (do it / print it / debug it / ... )? Otherwise, if it's just text editing there is no it. So there is a sort of logic. IMO that makes sense, because evaluating is a special action. > > > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2014-07-15 15:16 GMT-03:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > > In python there is eval() which evaluates > > > > and there is exec() which executes > > > > The difference is that one calculates a value which it returns , the > other > > executes code. > > > > Personally I find "do it" very good choice because it makes clear what > you > > referring to , in contrast "evaluate" and "execute" can mean different > > things under different context. > > > > > +1 > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 9:07 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> > >> In general I banned evaluate from the book vocabulary because people > think > >> that this is slower. > Compiler evaluate: is more how you do it ;) I'd say just do it (it's ok, we are an imperative language after all). > >> I saw teachers writing that smalltalk is interpreted and java compiled > :). > >> I use execute. > >> > >> > Ah, Cursor execute showWhile: [...], st80-v2 also had this vocabulary. So if the UI must reflect that you execute something, it's certainly a valuable word. I checked, it's still in Pharo 3.0 :) Personally, I find it too unpersonnal though. A robot, or an automaton executes a list of instructions. I prefer the anthropo-morphic programming ;) >> > >> On 15/7/14 19:20, Ben Coman wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Mostly I take for granted that "DoIt" has always been the way to > evaluate > >>> things with Smalltalk, however I find it awkward to use in writing a > >>> tutorial. Some examples... * After saving, select "Grid new" and > "DoIt" -- > >>> this sounds awkward, and even that you might need select the latter as > well. > >>> * After saving, "Grid new" DoIt. -- doesn't read nice > >>> * After saving, DoIt to "Grid new." -- worst of all > >>> > >>> I'd feel better writing something like this... > >>> * After saving, evaluate "Grid new". > >>> but "evaluate" is not an item in the menus. I think actually many > people > >>> talk this way with the implicit convention that "evaluate" means > "DoIt". > >>> > >>> So first, does anyone have a good way to compose sentences using > "DoIt". > >>> Second, how evil would it be to change the menus from "DoIt" to > >>> "Evaluate" and so avoid the implicit convention. > >>> > >>> cheers -ben > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > >

July 15, 2014