June 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] news from block :)

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-06-11 16:55 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > > On 11 Jun 2014, at 16:39, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> excellent news. I really believe in Morphic and I really like its general >> design. If you we can clean the mud I am sure we will discover quite a >> diamond underneath. Thanks. > which general design? the pattern in which is based? thatâs not enough to > keep it :) What pattern is it? > Sorry but there is no easy/efficient way to clean it. > The only way to clean Morphic is to reimplement it. I wouldn't do that, and instead replace it by something different and use Morphs just for views. > Clean it is just too much workâ¦ and too many design decisions where made > that time and patches made them obsolete or not correct. > Not to talk about the mix of concepts (bah, the no existence of separation > between them). Exactly, there is nothing close to a MVC/MVP/MVVM pattern in it. Right? > Block is not a clean. Is a revamp. > > No offence intended to Morphic: no matter how good was at the beginning, > *every* system evolves up to a point the effort required to maintain it is > superior to the effort required to reimplement it (with all the experience > as a superior step). > (yeah, yeahâ¦ a lot of people will disagree. But time has proven me rightâ¦ > and will continue doing it :P) I agree with you here. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

June 11, 2014

PharoVM with latests changes

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, Soâ¦ last days Iâve been working in new versions of the PharoVM based in latest Eliot sources. New vmâs can be found at: http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/ http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharoS/ under âlatest.zipâ and you can also take it from zeroconf using âvmLatestâ and here is an explanation of what this work is so annoying: http://smallworks.eu/web/blog/2014-06-11-fighting-entropy So, please test, report, etc. Expectations: Everything is solved (including the annoying âsmall int bugâ) and even faster than before. Realistic expectations: Everything works fine, we are aligned to latest sources, and now I can start working on the SpurVM implementation. Cheers, Esteban

June 11, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] news from block :)

by kilon alios

Yes personally I really like the overall design of a morph embedding nice and easily inside another morph and everything made up of morphs. I like the idea of hand , world , etc. I try to like Spec, but it looks to me quite confusing, I tried to follow the tutorial but I cant understand its design and why so many methods are needed to setup a spec widget. I also dislike the use or pragmas. I will continue learning it but I don't prefer it over Morphic for now. AFAIK apart from Spec and Morphic there is no other choice. I also have hard time understanding Roassal and Athens. With Morphic its hard at times to figure out whats going on but at least it took very little time to understand the overall design. I don't have a problem with Pharo abandoning Morphic. Afterally you all use Pharo far more than I do. I will continue learning Spec, Roassal and Athens. But for me Morphic is the most beautiful Graphics API I have ever worked with. On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 11 Jun 2014, at 16:39, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > excellent news. I really believe in Morphic and I really like its general > design. If you we can clean the mud I am sure we will discover quite a > diamond underneath. Thanks. > > > which general design? the pattern in which is based? thatâs not enough to > keep it :) > Sorry but there is no easy/efficient way to clean it. > The only way to clean Morphic is to reimplement it. > Clean it is just too much workâ¦ and too many design decisions where made > that time and patches made them obsolete or not correct. > Not to talk about the mix of concepts (bah, the no existence of separation > between them). > > Block is not a clean. Is a revamp. > > No offence intended to Morphic: no matter how good was at the beginning, > *every* system evolves up to a point the effort required to maintain it is > superior to the effort required to reimplement it (with all the experience > as a superior step). > (yeah, yeahâ¦ a lot of people will disagree. But time has proven me rightâ¦ > and will continue doing it :P) > > Esteban > > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:25 PM, FranÃ§ois Stephany < > tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> \o/ >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> On 11 juin 2014, at 15:31, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> What is bloc ? >>> >>> I've searched in the pharo-dev list but couldn't find it :/ >>> >>> >>> A Morphic clean/revamp lead by Alain and Stef. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> looks so exciting... >>>> >>>> From: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >>>> Subject: Bloc news >>>> Date: 11 Jun 2014 14:10:29 GMT+2 >>>> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>>> Cc: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >>>> >>>> Name: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.15 >>>> Author: AlainPlantec >>>> Time: 11 June 2014, 2:07:16.813171 pm >>>> UUID: d58ae82e-b5dd-41d9-bc31-a48c3e9e5cf1 >>>> Ancestors: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.14 >>>> >>>> - BlMorphs manage their submorphs with local coordinate. >>>> - Drawing and drag&drop has been adapted to local coordinate >>>> - Consequence: TransformationMorph should not be useful anymore because >>>> each morph has its own transform (not only TransformationMorph). Each morph >>>> uses its own transform to declare changed portions of its bounds and to >>>> draw its submorphs. >>>> - The world is no more a special morph: >>>> - the hand is owned by the space >>>> - the canvas and the display/redisplay of morphs are space >>>> responsibilities. >>>> This open the door to several worlds per space. >>>> >>>> Now the current global redrawing mechanism efficiency is not obvious. >>>> Next actions: >>>> - try to localize as much as possible the redrawing of morphs, >>>> - dig several Worlds for a space >>>> - start to comment and write a separate documentation with the help of >>>> Stephane :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >

June 11, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] news from block :)

by Tudor Girba

I would be interested in trying to play with Block. Is it available? Cheers, Doru On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 9:55 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 11 Jun 2014, at 16:39, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > excellent news. I really believe in Morphic and I really like its general > design. If you we can clean the mud I am sure we will discover quite a > diamond underneath. Thanks. > > > which general design? the pattern in which is based? thatâs not enough to > keep it :) > Sorry but there is no easy/efficient way to clean it. > The only way to clean Morphic is to reimplement it. > Clean it is just too much workâ¦ and too many design decisions where made > that time and patches made them obsolete or not correct. > Not to talk about the mix of concepts (bah, the no existence of separation > between them). > > Block is not a clean. Is a revamp. > > No offence intended to Morphic: no matter how good was at the beginning, > *every* system evolves up to a point the effort required to maintain it is > superior to the effort required to reimplement it (with all the experience > as a superior step). > (yeah, yeahâ¦ a lot of people will disagree. But time has proven me rightâ¦ > and will continue doing it :P) > > Esteban > > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:25 PM, FranÃ§ois Stephany < > tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> \o/ >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> On 11 juin 2014, at 15:31, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> What is bloc ? >>> >>> I've searched in the pharo-dev list but couldn't find it :/ >>> >>> >>> A Morphic clean/revamp lead by Alain and Stef. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> looks so exciting... >>>> >>>> From: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >>>> Subject: Bloc news >>>> Date: 11 Jun 2014 14:10:29 GMT+2 >>>> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>>> Cc: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >>>> >>>> Name: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.15 >>>> Author: AlainPlantec >>>> Time: 11 June 2014, 2:07:16.813171 pm >>>> UUID: d58ae82e-b5dd-41d9-bc31-a48c3e9e5cf1 >>>> Ancestors: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.14 >>>> >>>> - BlMorphs manage their submorphs with local coordinate. >>>> - Drawing and drag&drop has been adapted to local coordinate >>>> - Consequence: TransformationMorph should not be useful anymore because >>>> each morph has its own transform (not only TransformationMorph). Each morph >>>> uses its own transform to declare changed portions of its bounds and to >>>> draw its submorphs. >>>> - The world is no more a special morph: >>>> - the hand is owned by the space >>>> - the canvas and the display/redisplay of morphs are space >>>> responsibilities. >>>> This open the door to several worlds per space. >>>> >>>> Now the current global redrawing mechanism efficiency is not obvious. >>>> Next actions: >>>> - try to localize as much as possible the redrawing of morphs, >>>> - dig several Worlds for a space >>>> - start to comment and write a separate documentation with the help of >>>> Stephane :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

June 11, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] news from block :)

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 11 Jun 2014, at 16:39, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > excellent news. I really believe in Morphic and I really like its general design. If you we can clean the mud I am sure we will discover quite a diamond underneath. Thanks. which general design? the pattern in which is based? thatâs not enough to keep it :) Sorry but there is no easy/efficient way to clean it. The only way to clean Morphic is to reimplement it. Clean it is just too much workâ¦ and too many design decisions where made that time and patches made them obsolete or not correct. Not to talk about the mix of concepts (bah, the no existence of separation between them). Block is not a clean. Is a revamp. No offence intended to Morphic: no matter how good was at the beginning, *every* system evolves up to a point the effort required to maintain it is superior to the effort required to reimplement it (with all the experience as a superior step). (yeah, yeahâ¦ a lot of people will disagree. But time has proven me rightâ¦ and will continue doing it :P) Esteban > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:25 PM, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > \o/ > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 11 juin 2014, at 15:31, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> What is bloc ? >> I've searched in the pharo-dev list but couldn't find it :/ > > A Morphic clean/revamp lead by Alain and Stef. > >> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> looks so exciting... >> >> From: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >> Subject: Bloc news >> Date: 11 Jun 2014 14:10:29 GMT+2 >> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >> Cc: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >> >> Name: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.15 >> Author: AlainPlantec >> Time: 11 June 2014, 2:07:16.813171 pm >> UUID: d58ae82e-b5dd-41d9-bc31-a48c3e9e5cf1 >> Ancestors: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.14 >> >> - BlMorphs manage their submorphs with local coordinate. >> - Drawing and drag&drop has been adapted to local coordinate >> - Consequence: TransformationMorph should not be useful anymore because each morph has its own transform (not only TransformationMorph). Each morph uses its own transform to declare changed portions of its bounds and to draw its submorphs. >> - The world is no more a special morph: >> - the hand is owned by the space >> - the canvas and the display/redisplay of morphs are space responsibilities. >> This open the door to several worlds per space. >> >> Now the current global redrawing mechanism efficiency is not obvious. >> Next actions: >> - try to localize as much as possible the redrawing of morphs, >> - dig several Worlds for a space >> - start to comment and write a separate documentation with the help of Stephane :) >> >> >> > > >

June 11, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] news from block :)

by Tudor Girba

Thank you, indeed! Doru On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 9:39 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > excellent news. I really believe in Morphic and I really like its general > design. If you we can clean the mud I am sure we will discover quite a > diamond underneath. Thanks. > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:25 PM, FranÃ§ois Stephany < > tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> \o/ >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> On 11 juin 2014, at 15:31, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> What is bloc ? >>> >>> I've searched in the pharo-dev list but couldn't find it :/ >>> >>> >>> A Morphic clean/revamp lead by Alain and Stef. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> looks so exciting... >>>> >>>> From: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >>>> Subject: Bloc news >>>> Date: 11 Jun 2014 14:10:29 GMT+2 >>>> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>>> Cc: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >>>> >>>> Name: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.15 >>>> Author: AlainPlantec >>>> Time: 11 June 2014, 2:07:16.813171 pm >>>> UUID: d58ae82e-b5dd-41d9-bc31-a48c3e9e5cf1 >>>> Ancestors: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.14 >>>> >>>> - BlMorphs manage their submorphs with local coordinate. >>>> - Drawing and drag&drop has been adapted to local coordinate >>>> - Consequence: TransformationMorph should not be useful anymore because >>>> each morph has its own transform (not only TransformationMorph). Each morph >>>> uses its own transform to declare changed portions of its bounds and to >>>> draw its submorphs. >>>> - The world is no more a special morph: >>>> - the hand is owned by the space >>>> - the canvas and the display/redisplay of morphs are space >>>> responsibilities. >>>> This open the door to several worlds per space. >>>> >>>> Now the current global redrawing mechanism efficiency is not obvious. >>>> Next actions: >>>> - try to localize as much as possible the redrawing of morphs, >>>> - dig several Worlds for a space >>>> - start to comment and write a separate documentation with the help of >>>> Stephane :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

June 11, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] news from block :)

by kilon alios

excellent news. I really believe in Morphic and I really like its general design. If you we can clean the mud I am sure we will discover quite a diamond underneath. Thanks. On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:25 PM, FranÃ§ois Stephany < tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > \o/ > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> On 11 juin 2014, at 15:31, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> What is bloc ? >> >> I've searched in the pharo-dev list but couldn't find it :/ >> >> >> A Morphic clean/revamp lead by Alain and Stef. >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >>> looks so exciting... >>> >>> From: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >>> Subject: Bloc news >>> Date: 11 Jun 2014 14:10:29 GMT+2 >>> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>> Cc: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >>> >>> Name: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.15 >>> Author: AlainPlantec >>> Time: 11 June 2014, 2:07:16.813171 pm >>> UUID: d58ae82e-b5dd-41d9-bc31-a48c3e9e5cf1 >>> Ancestors: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.14 >>> >>> - BlMorphs manage their submorphs with local coordinate. >>> - Drawing and drag&drop has been adapted to local coordinate >>> - Consequence: TransformationMorph should not be useful anymore because >>> each morph has its own transform (not only TransformationMorph). Each morph >>> uses its own transform to declare changed portions of its bounds and to >>> draw its submorphs. >>> - The world is no more a special morph: >>> - the hand is owned by the space >>> - the canvas and the display/redisplay of morphs are space >>> responsibilities. >>> This open the door to several worlds per space. >>> >>> Now the current global redrawing mechanism efficiency is not obvious. >>> Next actions: >>> - try to localize as much as possible the redrawing of morphs, >>> - dig several Worlds for a space >>> - start to comment and write a separate documentation with the help of >>> Stephane :) >>> >>> >>> >> >> >

June 11, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] news from block :)

by FranÃ§ois Stephany

\o/ On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 11 juin 2014, at 15:31, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > What is bloc ? > > I've searched in the pharo-dev list but couldn't find it :/ > > > A Morphic clean/revamp lead by Alain and Stef. > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> looks so exciting... >> >> From: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >> Subject: Bloc news >> Date: 11 Jun 2014 14:10:29 GMT+2 >> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >> Cc: Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)univ-brest.fr> >> >> Name: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.15 >> Author: AlainPlantec >> Time: 11 June 2014, 2:07:16.813171 pm >> UUID: d58ae82e-b5dd-41d9-bc31-a48c3e9e5cf1 >> Ancestors: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.14 >> >> - BlMorphs manage their submorphs with local coordinate. >> - Drawing and drag&drop has been adapted to local coordinate >> - Consequence: TransformationMorph should not be useful anymore because >> each morph has its own transform (not only TransformationMorph). Each morph >> uses its own transform to declare changed portions of its bounds and to >> draw its submorphs. >> - The world is no more a special morph: >> - the hand is owned by the space >> - the canvas and the display/redisplay of morphs are space >> responsibilities. >> This open the door to several worlds per space. >> >> Now the current global redrawing mechanism efficiency is not obvious. >> Next actions: >> - try to localize as much as possible the redrawing of morphs, >> - dig several Worlds for a space >> - start to comment and write a separate documentation with the help of >> Stephane :) >> >> >> > >

June 11, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Compressing changes

by Marcus Denker

On 11 Jun 2014, at 18:44, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I ran > ./pharo release.image eval --save "PharoChangesCondenser condense" > > And after a while (a lot) it actually grew the size of the file from > 42 M to 74MB! > > 74M Jun 11 12:45 release.changes (v2) > 42M Jun 11 12:35 release.changes.bak (v1) > 33M Jun 11 12:45 release.image > > So I thought it could need to be run interactively, then I opened the > pharo UI and run the same command in a Workspace, this time seemed to > took longer and increased the changes file even more. > > 74M Jun 11 12:45 release.1.bak (v2) > 138M Jun 11 13:38 release.changes (v3) > 42M Jun 11 12:35 release.changes.bak (v1) > 33M Jun 11 13:38 release.image > > Any suggestions? Can you try it interactively the first time? before I send it I tried it and it workedâ¦ (but that was just the fresh image) Marcus

June 11, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Compressing changes

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I ran ./pharo release.image eval --save "PharoChangesCondenser condense" And after a while (a lot) it actually grew the size of the file from 42 M to 74MB! 74M Jun 11 12:45 release.changes (v2) 42M Jun 11 12:35 release.changes.bak (v1) 33M Jun 11 12:45 release.image So I thought it could need to be run interactively, then I opened the pharo UI and run the same command in a Workspace, this time seemed to took longer and increased the changes file even more. 74M Jun 11 12:45 release.1.bak (v2) 138M Jun 11 13:38 release.changes (v3) 42M Jun 11 12:35 release.changes.bak (v1) 33M Jun 11 13:38 release.image Any suggestions? Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo 2014-06-11 12:01 GMT-03:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > > On 11 Jun 2014, at 16:13, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> After installing a Metacelllo config referencing some other projects >> (Seaside, Glorp, Neo*, etc.) the base Changes file went from a few Kb >> to ~40Mb. >> >> Can this changes file be "condensed" somehow? >> > > Yes: > > PharoChangesCondenser condense > > > Marcus > >

June 11, 2014