June 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to get started with Git and Pharo?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Stef, You need to cut your teeth for a decent couple hours to get to terms with Git. Especially when using a workflow with branches, with merges, and several contributors. I knew of quite a couple of SCMs (including Hg) but Git is a special beast. I liked Git Recipes: A Problem Solution Approach as it was very pragmatic. HTH Phil On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 7:09 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > I read > > http://www.stic.st/wp-content/conferences/2012/Wednesday/ > 1415-Practical_Git_for_Smalltalk-Henrichs.pdf > and I found > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-git-td4693999.html > > But is there something that works and it simple? > > Stef > > > On 26/6/14 18:27, stepharo wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I do not know the dif between git file tree, file tree.... and I would >> like to know how to get >> started with git in Pharo? >> >> What should I read? >> >> Stef >> > > >

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to get started with Git and Pharo?

by Yuriy Tymchuk

I can only suggest you to read my blogpost about configurations and versioning: http://sleepycoders.blogspot.ch/2014/04/how-to-distribute-your-github-pharo… I usually mix filetree and gitfiletree. Last one is better, because you donât have to remember to commit in git each time you commit in pharo. (Also I think that gitfiletree is not working with Pharo4) Uko On 26 Jun 2014, at 18:27, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi > > I do not know the dif between git file tree, file tree.... and I would like to know how to get > started with git in Pharo? > > What should I read? > > Stef >

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] about ~=

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-06-26 13:11 GMT-03:00 Richard Sargent <richard.sargent(a)gemtalksystems.com>: > Esteban A. Maringolo wrote >> If one thing confuses people in that realm is non arithmetic precedence: >> Eg. 2 + 3 * 4 = 20 instead of the "expected" 14. >> >> And we're not going to change that either. It's not worthy, and I >> doubt if it is possible at all. > > I'm probably late to the party with this reply. The primary reason for not > changing this is that it would be incorrect. It comes down to intrinsic > versus extrinsic meaning. A multiple operator has an intrinsic meaning: it > means multiple. But a message name does not have intrinsic meaning (other > than it is a good idea to have the name represent what it does). The meaning > of a message is determined by the receiver. e.g. if PetitParser defines #* > to mean "0 or more repetitions", what happens when someone has decided that > it should be evaluated before #+? That's exactly why I said it is not worth it. When the expression is with numeric literals is one thing, as soon as you're using variables it is something different. What I meant is changing #~= is as fanciful as doing that. > Message sending precedence can only be defined in terms of the type of > message: unary, binary (or infix), and keyword, since the interpretation of > the message is the receiver's responsibility, not the compiler's. That's why I said I doubt if it is feasible. Esteban A. Maringolo

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to get started with Git and Pharo?

by stepharo

I read http://www.stic.st/wp-content/conferences/2012/Wednesday/1415-Practical_Git… and I found http://forum.world.st/Pharo-git-td4693999.html But is there something that works and it simple? Stef On 26/6/14 18:27, stepharo wrote: > Hi > > I do not know the dif between git file tree, file tree.... and I would > like to know how to get > started with git in Pharo? > > What should I read? > > Stef

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to get started with Git and Pharo?

by Dale Henrichs

Stef, My introduction to git came largely from reading "A successful Git branching model"[1]. I tried to think how to map this particular git work flow to Metacello and long story short, decided to adapt Metacello to git:) It is also probably worth reading "What is a good Git workflow?"[2]. This article is more about how to use GitHub, but frankly the appeal of git to me goes hand in hand with a good collaboration model and GitHub does a good job supporting that. The first time you read these articles don't pay attention to the details, but try to get the overall flow/functionality and try to draw parallels to the work the you do with Monticello and Metacello ... let the thoughts marinate, ask some questions. "Pro Git"[3] is a book/web site and would recommend that you take a run through Chapter 2[4] to get a taste of git in action at the command line and virtually everything that you need to know to work on your own with git is covered in this chapter. Chapter 3[5] is on the nitty gritty of branching ... but again at this stage you want to just skim through the docs and get a feel of what is possible ... if something doesn't make sense at this stage ... ignore it:) Now go back to the "What is a good Git workflow?"[2] paper and read it in detail ... if you see a command/operation that you don't understand google it or look it up in "Pro Git" or ask questions ... Basically I am recommending that for your first foray into Git and Smalltalk you will be trying to follow the "What is a good Git workflow?"[2] model. FileTree allows you save Monticello packages into a git repository, but with FileTree you have to do all of the git commands from the command line. I'll let Thierry Goubier describe GitFileTree because I think it that package does a bit of remote control .... I think that it is possible to most if not all of the git work support into the Smalltalk development environment ... I am doing that for GemStone with tODE[6] and I do find myself going to the go to the command line much less frequently ... but in tODE I have built a git merge tool and a git diff tool ... you can get the git history of a method from the browser, etc. Without a relatively high degree of tool integration it can be clunky to use git ... I am very willing to share what I've done/learned in tODE with Pharo tool builders and of course I think Thierry Goubier has actually been ahead of me in several different areas ... Of course there are other git workflows out there and other git collaboration sites besides GitHub...but is worth keeping things simple at first (I think) and when you have mastered git/github basics both personally and from a tool level, then it is a perfectly good time to start looking at other workflows and tools, because then you are able to make informed judgements ... HTH, Dale [1] http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/ [2] https://help.github.com/articles/what-is-a-good-git-workflow [3] http://git-scm.com/book [4] http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Basics-Getting-a-Git-Repository [5] http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Branching [6] https://github.com/dalehenrich/tode On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:27 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi > > I do not know the dif between git file tree, file tree.... and I would > like to know how to get > started with git in Pharo? > > What should I read? > > Stef > >

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] about ~=

by kilon alios

lol :D On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > > Am 26.06.2014 um 12:46 schrieb Nicolas Cellier < > nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > > $! is not classified as a binary character right now, is it? > Of course it's possible but I'd just say why this particular symbol? > It does not look mathematical either. Or do you love C/C++ so much? > > Note that ~= has same meaning in Matlab. > > There are other possibilities like /= or <> (Fortran 95, ADA), even the > long form =/=. > > But frankly, I don't buy this kind of change, for the sake of looking like > some {} language, making such a deep change is overkill. > > In any case, a big -1 for != > > > +1 ... hmmm err... I mean -1...hmmm ok +1 for the -1. Ok, I guess I suck > at math. > > Norbert > > > 2014-06-26 10:47 GMT+02:00 Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com>: > >> >> On 26.06.2014, at 10:15, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> >> wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > I would like to make a suggestion that may lead to a long debate but >> let's go: What do you think about deprecating ~= and replace it with != for >> example? >> > Why? In mathematics the symbol ~ is used for equivalence. To me (and I >> think any newcomer to Smalltalk) the first guess of the meaning of ~= is >> equivalent to => missed. The meaning is totally different: "Answer whether >> the receiver and the argument do not represent the same object.â >> >> +1 >> But then I also want to suggest #!== for negating identity. >> >> > >> > I never used this method because it is too confusing for me. I prefer >> to use (a = b) not or (a = b) ifFalse:. >> > So, the discussion is open ... >> > >> > Christophe >> >> >> >

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] about ~=

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 26.06.2014 um 12:46 schrieb Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > > $! is not classified as a binary character right now, is it? > Of course it's possible but I'd just say why this particular symbol? > It does not look mathematical either. Or do you love C/C++ so much? > > Note that ~= has same meaning in Matlab. > > There are other possibilities like /= or <> (Fortran 95, ADA), even the long form =/=. > > But frankly, I don't buy this kind of change, for the sake of looking like some {} language, making such a deep change is overkill. > > In any case, a big -1 for != +1 ... hmmm err... I mean -1...hmmm ok +1 for the -1. Ok, I guess I suck at math. Norbert > > 2014-06-26 10:47 GMT+02:00 Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com>: >> >> On 26.06.2014, at 10:15, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > I would like to make a suggestion that may lead to a long debate but let's go: What do you think about deprecating ~= and replace it with != for example? >> > Why? In mathematics the symbol ~ is used for equivalence. To me (and I think any newcomer to Smalltalk) the first guess of the meaning of ~= is equivalent to => missed. The meaning is totally different: "Answer whether the receiver and the argument do not represent the same object.â >> >> +1 >> But then I also want to suggest #!== for negating identity. >> >> > >> > I never used this method because it is too confusing for me. I prefer to use (a = b) not or (a = b) ifFalse:. >> > So, the discussion is open ... >> > >> > Christophe >

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] super initialize

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 26.06.2014 um 18:48 schrieb stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > >> When you create a new instance with #new automatically >> #initialize is sent. >> >> The default #initialize is provided in ProtoObject at >> the highest level of the class hierarchy (doing nothing). >> >> If you look deeper in the hierarchy you will notice that >> >> - some subclasses of Object override the #initialize >> method and call "super initialize" >> - some subclasses of Object override the #initialize >> method without calling "super initialize" >> >> No problem at the moment as there is no initialization >> done in Object or ProtoObject at the current point in >> time. >> >> But the question is should we care if there may be >> in the future? > I prefer to have a super call for consistency reasons. Igor jokes me usually on that. I'm on your side. Screw Igor :) Norbert > Now there should not be an initialize in ProtoObject and Object in the future. > > So which ones > > - some subclasses of Object override the #initialize > method without calling "super initialize" > > > > Stef >> >> Thx >> T. > >

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] super initialize

by stepharo

> When you create a new instance with #new automatically > #initialize is sent. > > The default #initialize is provided in ProtoObject at > the highest level of the class hierarchy (doing nothing). > > If you look deeper in the hierarchy you will notice that > > - some subclasses of Object override the #initialize > method and call "super initialize" > - some subclasses of Object override the #initialize > method without calling "super initialize" > > No problem at the moment as there is no initialization > done in Object or ProtoObject at the current point in > time. > > But the question is should we care if there may be > in the future? I prefer to have a super call for consistency reasons. Igor jokes me usually on that. Now there should not be an initialize in ProtoObject and Object in the future. So which ones - some subclasses of Object override the #initialize method without calling "super initialize" Stef > > Thx > T. > > > >

June 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo and Amber relationship

by stepharo

On 26/6/14 10:10, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Hi, > > as I read somewhere that Amber want to stay compatible > with Pharo it is important. > (at least with the core classes) I wonder > how this compatibility is measured/enforced these days. Difficult. > > Are there tools to exchange code between the two? > > I also wonder if what would be necessary to run Amber on > Java Nashorn (a JS engine that comes with the JDK 8). > Could serve as a horse to also run on JVM... May be we should stop developing in our lovely language and jump in JS. It would solve many problems and open a lot more. But seriously after the Java wave.... > > Why I'm asking: I think one of our goals should be to > make Pharo more widely usable to not end up as an island. We daily try to improve our system but this is not easy. > > If Pharo and Amber stay compatible to a certain amount > Amber could open the door for Pharo to other target platforms > (browser, mobile devices, other language runtimes) as > JS is available nearly everywhere. Running Pharo on JS VM would be interesting too. Stef

June 26, 2014